Personally if I ever have to carry someone out of the woods I'm going to try to get the EMTs to bring out their toys first anyways (backboard, stokes litter, etc) and let them run the show.
statistically zero,
A deer sled is for dragging something dead out of the woods, not to remove someone with serious injuries enough injuries that they are no ambulatory.
...certainly a $700 system designed for airlift is wholly inappropriate for a CAP squadron to be purchasing with corporate money.
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on March 22, 2017, 11:01:47 AMPersonally if I ever have to carry someone out of the woods I'm going to try to get the EMTs to bring out their toys first anyways (backboard, stokes litter, etc) and let them run the show.I do agree completely. I'd much rather have the folks who do this as their day job be handling any medical care, both for the sake of the patient and the liability to the operators and the organization. However, I'd like to have the bare capability to safely and easily move a non-ambulatory casualty for if the need arises. Be it an urgent medical emergency where the PT needs to be moved to the heli site or the road ASAP for ease of access to EMS, or a cadet passes out in the sun and needs to be moved out of the open field into the cool van.Yeah, I know it won't happen, but it might. $20-30 isn't much price to have the capability.As for the litter you suggested, I do like it and may go for that one, but at first glance I don't like that it's made of fabric. I'd prefer the plastic for ease of cleaning, durability, etc.Have you had much experience actually using it?
If you're going to be at GTA this weekend I'll show it off in person.
Quote from: Eclipse on March 22, 2017, 11:39:39 AMA deer sled is for dragging something dead out of the woods, not to remove someone with serious injuries enough injuries that they are no ambulatory.My question is whether or not there are significant differences between it and a SKED type folding stretcher that affect its usefulness as a rescue litter. Simply being designed for a different purpose doesn't necessarily mean it won't work fine as one. Hair ties weren't designed to stop my flashlight from flopping around, crayons weren't designed as emergency candles, socks weren't designed for soaking to cool water bottles, but they get the job done. Are there better options available? Certainly.
However, there's no way I'm going to dump that much of my own or or my unit's bank when there's another way that's so much cheaper and works well enough.
Quote from: waukwiz on March 22, 2017, 12:43:38 PMQuote from: Spaceman3750 on March 22, 2017, 11:01:47 AMPersonally if I ever have to carry someone out of the woods I'm going to try to get the EMTs to bring out their toys first anyways (backboard, stokes litter, etc) and let them run the show.I do agree completely. I'd much rather have the folks who do this as their day job be handling any medical care, both for the sake of the patient and the liability to the operators and the organization. However, I'd like to have the bare capability to safely and easily move a non-ambulatory casualty for if the need arises. Be it an urgent medical emergency where the PT needs to be moved to the heli site or the road ASAP for ease of access to EMS, or a cadet passes out in the sun and needs to be moved out of the open field into the cool van.Yeah, I know it won't happen, but it might. $20-30 isn't much price to have the capability.As for the litter you suggested, I do like it and may go for that one, but at first glance I don't like that it's made of fabric. I'd prefer the plastic for ease of cleaning, durability, etc.Have you had much experience actually using it?Have you talked to your ESO, SO and finally your CC about this?Also are you willing to fully accept the liability and reprucussions of using something for other than its intended purpose?
Quote from: abdsp51 on March 22, 2017, 01:10:49 PMQuote from: waukwiz on March 22, 2017, 12:43:38 PMQuote from: Spaceman3750 on March 22, 2017, 11:01:47 AMPersonally if I ever have to carry someone out of the woods I'm going to try to get the EMTs to bring out their toys first anyways (backboard, stokes litter, etc) and let them run the show.I do agree completely. I'd much rather have the folks who do this as their day job be handling any medical care, both for the sake of the patient and the liability to the operators and the organization. However, I'd like to have the bare capability to safely and easily move a non-ambulatory casualty for if the need arises. Be it an urgent medical emergency where the PT needs to be moved to the heli site or the road ASAP for ease of access to EMS, or a cadet passes out in the sun and needs to be moved out of the open field into the cool van.Yeah, I know it won't happen, but it might. $20-30 isn't much price to have the capability.As for the litter you suggested, I do like it and may go for that one, but at first glance I don't like that it's made of fabric. I'd prefer the plastic for ease of cleaning, durability, etc.Have you had much experience actually using it?Have you talked to your ESO, SO and finally your CC about this?Also are you willing to fully accept the liability and reprucussions of using something for other than its intended purpose? Thank you for pointing that out, that is a very good point, I hadn't thought of it from that angle. There is much at stake in this case that I or my unit would be on the hook for if things don't go just right.No, I have not discussed this with anyone else yet. Just exploring options.
Quote from: waukwiz on March 22, 2017, 01:21:21 PMQuote from: abdsp51 on March 22, 2017, 01:10:49 PMQuote from: waukwiz on March 22, 2017, 12:43:38 PMQuote from: Spaceman3750 on March 22, 2017, 11:01:47 AMPersonally if I ever have to carry someone out of the woods I'm going to try to get the EMTs to bring out their toys first anyways (backboard, stokes litter, etc) and let them run the show.I do agree completely. I'd much rather have the folks who do this as their day job be handling any medical care, both for the sake of the patient and the liability to the operators and the organization. However, I'd like to have the bare capability to safely and easily move a non-ambulatory casualty for if the need arises. Be it an urgent medical emergency where the PT needs to be moved to the heli site or the road ASAP for ease of access to EMS, or a cadet passes out in the sun and needs to be moved out of the open field into the cool van.Yeah, I know it won't happen, but it might. $20-30 isn't much price to have the capability.As for the litter you suggested, I do like it and may go for that one, but at first glance I don't like that it's made of fabric. I'd prefer the plastic for ease of cleaning, durability, etc.Have you had much experience actually using it?Have you talked to your ESO, SO and finally your CC about this?Also are you willing to fully accept the liability and reprucussions of using something for other than its intended purpose? Thank you for pointing that out, that is a very good point, I hadn't thought of it from that angle. There is much at stake in this case that I or my unit would be on the hook for if things don't go just right.No, I have not discussed this with anyone else yet. Just exploring options.Before you proceed further you need to talk to leadership...
Quote from: abdsp51 on March 22, 2017, 01:28:52 PMQuote from: waukwiz on March 22, 2017, 01:21:21 PMQuote from: abdsp51 on March 22, 2017, 01:10:49 PMQuote from: waukwiz on March 22, 2017, 12:43:38 PMQuote from: Spaceman3750 on March 22, 2017, 11:01:47 AMPersonally if I ever have to carry someone out of the woods I'm going to try to get the EMTs to bring out their toys first anyways (backboard, stokes litter, etc) and let them run the show.I do agree completely. I'd much rather have the folks who do this as their day job be handling any medical care, both for the sake of the patient and the liability to the operators and the organization. However, I'd like to have the bare capability to safely and easily move a non-ambulatory casualty for if the need arises. Be it an urgent medical emergency where the PT needs to be moved to the heli site or the road ASAP for ease of access to EMS, or a cadet passes out in the sun and needs to be moved out of the open field into the cool van.Yeah, I know it won't happen, but it might. $20-30 isn't much price to have the capability.As for the litter you suggested, I do like it and may go for that one, but at first glance I don't like that it's made of fabric. I'd prefer the plastic for ease of cleaning, durability, etc.Have you had much experience actually using it?Have you talked to your ESO, SO and finally your CC about this?Also are you willing to fully accept the liability and reprucussions of using something for other than its intended purpose? Thank you for pointing that out, that is a very good point, I hadn't thought of it from that angle. There is much at stake in this case that I or my unit would be on the hook for if things don't go just right.No, I have not discussed this with anyone else yet. Just exploring options.Before you proceed further you need to talk to leadership...Absolutely, would never purchase team gear without the input/approval of those I'm accountable to. I'm only trying to get info about options so I come to the table with more than "Hey, can we buy a litter?"
Quote from: waukwiz on March 22, 2017, 01:34:00 PMQuote from: abdsp51 on March 22, 2017, 01:28:52 PMQuote from: waukwiz on March 22, 2017, 01:21:21 PMQuote from: abdsp51 on March 22, 2017, 01:10:49 PMQuote from: waukwiz on March 22, 2017, 12:43:38 PMQuote from: Spaceman3750 on March 22, 2017, 11:01:47 AMPersonally if I ever have to carry someone out of the woods I'm going to try to get the EMTs to bring out their toys first anyways (backboard, stokes litter, etc) and let them run the show.I do agree completely. I'd much rather have the folks who do this as their day job be handling any medical care, both for the sake of the patient and the liability to the operators and the organization. However, I'd like to have the bare capability to safely and easily move a non-ambulatory casualty for if the need arises. Be it an urgent medical emergency where the PT needs to be moved to the heli site or the road ASAP for ease of access to EMS, or a cadet passes out in the sun and needs to be moved out of the open field into the cool van.Yeah, I know it won't happen, but it might. $20-30 isn't much price to have the capability.As for the litter you suggested, I do like it and may go for that one, but at first glance I don't like that it's made of fabric. I'd prefer the plastic for ease of cleaning, durability, etc.Have you had much experience actually using it?Have you talked to your ESO, SO and finally your CC about this?Also are you willing to fully accept the liability and reprucussions of using something for other than its intended purpose? Thank you for pointing that out, that is a very good point, I hadn't thought of it from that angle. There is much at stake in this case that I or my unit would be on the hook for if things don't go just right.No, I have not discussed this with anyone else yet. Just exploring options.Before you proceed further you need to talk to leadership...Absolutely, would never purchase team gear without the input/approval of those I'm accountable to. I'm only trying to get info about options so I come to the table with more than "Hey, can we buy a litter?"Stop researching and get buy in. Your leadership may not want to assume the liability for this. We as CAP are not in the business of extracting and moving victims. Any victim who requires the use of a litter is beyond thale care level of basic first aid. Talk to your leadership first before proceeding further.
Quote from: abdsp51 on March 22, 2017, 02:23:13 PMQuote from: waukwiz on March 22, 2017, 01:34:00 PMQuote from: abdsp51 on March 22, 2017, 01:28:52 PMQuote from: waukwiz on March 22, 2017, 01:21:21 PMQuote from: abdsp51 on March 22, 2017, 01:10:49 PMQuote from: waukwiz on March 22, 2017, 12:43:38 PMQuote from: Spaceman3750 on March 22, 2017, 11:01:47 AMPersonally if I ever have to carry someone out of the woods I'm going to try to get the EMTs to bring out their toys first anyways (backboard, stokes litter, etc) and let them run the show.I do agree completely. I'd much rather have the folks who do this as their day job be handling any medical care, both for the sake of the patient and the liability to the operators and the organization. However, I'd like to have the bare capability to safely and easily move a non-ambulatory casualty for if the need arises. Be it an urgent medical emergency where the PT needs to be moved to the heli site or the road ASAP for ease of access to EMS, or a cadet passes out in the sun and needs to be moved out of the open field into the cool van.Yeah, I know it won't happen, but it might. $20-30 isn't much price to have the capability.As for the litter you suggested, I do like it and may go for that one, but at first glance I don't like that it's made of fabric. I'd prefer the plastic for ease of cleaning, durability, etc.Have you had much experience actually using it?Have you talked to your ESO, SO and finally your CC about this?Also are you willing to fully accept the liability and reprucussions of using something for other than its intended purpose? Thank you for pointing that out, that is a very good point, I hadn't thought of it from that angle. There is much at stake in this case that I or my unit would be on the hook for if things don't go just right.No, I have not discussed this with anyone else yet. Just exploring options.Before you proceed further you need to talk to leadership...Absolutely, would never purchase team gear without the input/approval of those I'm accountable to. I'm only trying to get info about options so I come to the table with more than "Hey, can we buy a litter?"Stop researching and get buy in. Your leadership may not want to assume the liability for this. We as CAP are not in the business of extracting and moving victims. Any victim who requires the use of a litter is beyond thale care level of basic first aid. Talk to your leadership first before proceeding further. You say that, yet participate in a litter carry is a required task for GTM3. I'm not saying we should be doing this either, but at some level CAP has decided it is in the people moving business.
Yes, actually.
Quote from: Eclipse on March 22, 2017, 03:25:39 PMYes, actually.As long as it's being done according to the training and with the equipment described. Anything else would be highly questionable.