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capmaj
Seasoned Member

Posts: 288

« on: February 22, 2017, 11:44:46 AM »

So apparently it has been decided at NHQ to allow each Region to send multiple teams to the National CG competition. This apparently is based on Nationals interest in increasing the number of cadets who participate. The Region winning team and the second place team both go to the national team and compete against the other Region teams and each other !

My question is, (perhaps to some of our CP gurus) doesn't this.....

1) Send the message to the Region champions that " Yes, you won. But you have to now have a 'do-over' in which you again compete against a team you already beat", and.....

2) Create a scenario in which a Region winner would lose to the other Region participant, thereby creating the question of who is the actual champion! In the extreme, you could see a situation in which Team A beats Team B at Region. Team A then loses to Team B at Nationals. Team B then goes on to win the national championship. So then you have Team A as the Region champs and Team B as the National champs. So who is the champion!!

Anyone have any insight into the logic/reason for this type of setup?
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Eclipse
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« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2017, 12:23:57 PM »

What you're seeing is the result of a hastily thrown together program that doesn't have enough
interest or participation to make it a viable "competition" in most wings, thus the allowance for
2 teams per wing at RCCs and 2 per Region at NCC.

As of today, there is so little information available on process, procedures, and dates, I don't understand
how there can be an expectation that this will be anything but a Safety Dance from end-to-end.

None of the websites have been updated, a lot of wings don't have their own comps (let alone teams)
set for location or date, and the same goes for regions. 

This is supposed to lead up to a National Competition in >JUNE<.  That's three months for something
which as of now has no plan, budgets, information, or even participants or locations.

Granted, you never get anywhere if you don't start, but for something on this scale to have any chance of even
marginal success it needs at least a year to plan, train and budget, not to mention deconflicting with
other activities like encampments, NCSAs, etc.  It's all the same people doing everything, and with membership
at near historical lows, there simply aren't the people around to focus on this at the level it needs to be without sacrificing
mission-centric activities.

As mentioned in other threads, the bare minimum time needed to function at QCUA level now eats the entirety of the minimum
contact hours most squadrons have - you can't sacrifice too many meetings to "marching up and down the square" at competition level,
nor can many units afford to allow a CG team plus the seniors to peel off and disconnect from normal meetings without
impacting their progression. If a given unit has enough people interested that they can schedule additional
practices and meetings outside normal squadron functions, good on them, but that's not the norm in may units that are just
hanging on and getting it done.

In regards to the below...

1) Send the message to the Region champions that " Yes, you won. But you have to now have a 'do-over' in which you again compete against a team you already beat", and.....

You simply acknowledge that regions are selecting champions, and under the current system each region will send two teams who may or may not have had
equal scores in the RCC but represent the region equally at the next level.  The telling is easy, getting cadets to understand this will take
strong leadership and confident emphasis on what is actually important in the NCC (hint, it's not the trophy).

Perhaps you don't crown a "champion", per se you award representative teams the chance to advance, and like a NASCAR
racing team, being first is great, but you're also there to advance and support each other and as long as one or the other
from the Wing / Region advances, that's a "win". "A little bit of Shake and a little bit of Bake..."

It's entirely possible, and even likely that the RCC teams from a respective region will be from the same Wing.  Same thing at that level,
knowing full well that at the wings, coming up with two actual viable teams will be difficult enough, and there will be no need for "competition"
for the RCC slots.  In that case, in stead of a wing-level competition, there should be a wing-level training day to prepare both teams for RCC.

Same again goes if the region can't come up with more then two teams for NCC.


2) Create a scenario in which a Region winner would lose to the other Region participant, thereby creating the question of who is the actual champion! In the extreme, you could see a situation in which Team A beats Team B at Region. Team A then loses to Team B at Nationals. Team B then goes on to win the national championship. So then you have Team A as the Region champs and Team B as the National champs. So who is the champion!!

The champion is who(m?)ever wins that day.  Easy-peasy.  Not much different from when a Region Squadron of Distinction isn't the Squadron of Merit from that same wing.
It is what it is, just make sure that everyone knows the score going in.

And I agree this is likely to happen, since the wings where NCC is still a "thing" are going to fair much better against those where iy's a non-factor.

Anyone have any insight into the logic/reason for this type of setup?

See above - Desire to restart the program without the infrastructure in place to support it.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2017, 12:39:21 PM by Eclipse » Logged

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kwe1009
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Posts: 589

« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2017, 12:58:45 PM »

Most professional and many amateur sports use a similar model.  Just look at the NCAA men's basketball tournament getting ready to start next month.  Some conferences will have 3 or more teams.  Most of these conferences also hold a tournament to decide their champion so now you have a situation where a conference can have a regular season champion, tournament champion and both lose to another member of their conference who goes on a run and wins the national championship.

I don't mind having 2 teams at each level since NHQ did away with drill team.  It gives more cadets an opportunity to compete.  I really wish that NHQ would put more emphasis on drill time as that is one of the best tools to build these cadets up and get them working together.

As of today, there is so little information available on process, procedures, and dates, I don't understand
how there can be an expectation that this will be anything but a Safety Dance from end-to-end.

None of the websites have been updated, a lot of wings don't have their own comps (let alone teams)
set for location or date, and the same goes for regions. 

I'm not sure what websites you are looking at for information but this site has had the information for NCC posted since at least October.  https://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/activities/national_cadet_competition/

My wing and region have done a pretty good job of advertising for the past few months.  Can't speak for others.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2017, 01:29:11 PM »

I'm not sure what websites you are looking at for information but this site has had the information for NCC posted since at least October.  https://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/activities/national_cadet_competition/

Yes, that's the one. 

The only thing "updated" on that page is the dates in red.  Everything else refers to 2015,
including references, dates, travel info for Maxwell, where it was held then, instead
of the school it will be at in Dayton this year.

Nothing on any of those links is current.

The first I heard of the reboot was in either late Dec or early Jan, the last mention on CT appears to be back in May discussing the
cancellation of the 2016 attempt, and I don't see any mention of it on the RSS.  That site may have had dates on it, but the word certainly
wasn't getting around.
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Ned
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Posts: 2,068

« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2017, 01:47:49 PM »

Anyone have any insight into the logic/reason for this type of setup?

Let me see if I can help.

Quote


So apparently it has been decided at NHQ to allow each Region to send multiple teams to the National CG competition. This apparently is based on Nationals interest in increasing the number of cadets who participate. The Region winning team and the second place team both go to the national team and compete against the other Region teams and each other !

Yes, yes, and yes.

We absolutely retooled NCC to engage more cadets at all levels.  Deliberately so.  We had found that statistically it was more likely for a cadet to earn an Earhart than it was to simply participate in a cadet competition at any level (wing, region, or national).  Restated, less than 10% of our units entered a team, and less than 5% of cadets ever competed in a cadet competition at any level.  Obviously, we needed to engineer the process to be more inclusive of average, regular community-based cadet and composite squadrons.


Because the whole point of NCC is to support local units by encouraging cadets to engage in the same sorts of activities found at the unit level, while providing additional fun, recognition, and the spirit of competition.  We specifically do not want units to "specialize in NCC" and do things like expend precious resources on "competition only uniforms" tailored multiple times, or expensive custom embroidered matching track suits, or as Bob mentioned, spending hours upon hours on the drill pad creating and choreographing unique drill routines useless in any other venue.  NCC is now specifically designed to be accessible to the typical unit.

Quote
My question is, (perhaps to some of our CP gurus) doesn't this.....

1) Send the message to the Region champions that " Yes, you won. But you have to now have a 'do-over' in which you again compete against a team you already beat", and.....

Not really.  Historically, given that the wing and region competitions were held months before the national comp, it was unusual for the exact same team that won their wing or region comp to compete at NCC in any event.  Significant "roster moves" were routine, and perhaps unavoidable.  Teams continued to practice and changed aspects of their game.  Wings and region competitions often hold different events as part of their competitions.  So the fact that a given team with perhaps a significantly different membership competing in different events months later might have different results is probably not very surprising to the cadets and adult leaders involved.  The fact that Team X were the champions of their wing or region during a particular competition is hugely important, of course, to the cadets and leaders involved in those competitions.  I suspect something that they will remember and treasure for years.  I still have very fond memories of competing in the CAWG drill competitions decades later.  And South Bay Group 17 certainly never won the competition.  But I remember receiving a trophy from Gen Doolittle for third place in some category.

Quote
2) Create a scenario in which a Region winner would lose to the other Region participant, thereby creating the question of who is the actual champion! In the extreme, you could see a situation in which Team A beats Team B at Region. Team A then loses to Team B at Nationals. Team B then goes on to win the national championship. So then you have Team A as the Region champs and Team B as the National champs. So who is the champion!!

Generally, the team whose name is inscribed on a given trophy is pretty much the champion.  The fact that the results of a different competition held months later with different events and probably different team members will never take anything away from an earlier competition.  I'm no NFL expert, but I am given to understand that a Superbowl championship team may well have lost to one or more other teams earlier in the season.

We are just over 4 months out from the competition, let me see when we can expect the website to be updated and advise.

Ned Lee
Col, CAP
National Cadet Program Manager

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Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 800
Unit: GA-001/CV

« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2017, 02:33:56 PM »

I'll speak for at least some of the others.  For the past two years, Georgia Wing has announced, then cancelled, their cadet comp. No one wants to compete, given the short time fuze of the announced schedule and how the extended event has been destructing for the past three years.


The short fuze announcement in Georgia this winter that there would BE a competition three weeks hence (now cancelled - they're going to try to cherry pick a team, apparently) led to many discussions about essentially crashing the plans and schedules of our units for a month to focus on winning - essentially shutting down the unit for all our guys to focus on getting a small group of cadets to win. Our cadets said lets forget it, and press on with worthwhile training (their words - THEY, the defenders of the GA Wing color guard trophy, didn't think it was worth it). Hard to hear, since my cadets had won at Wing level all four previous times they competed (they took a year off, then came back and won again). I am convinced that my cadets made the right choice - and as we continue to meet the QCUA criteria, and promoted two more Mitchells this last month, and deployed a heavy GT to the tornado DR mission last month, I am proud that they decided to skip participating in yet another rush job poor effort to hold to high standards.


Here's some factors why, though, I feel that it was unfair to put our cadets in that spot, and why we're ending up with an unfair NCC aimed squarely at the half a percent of cadets. Aside from announcing the event so close (three or four weeks) in advance is always a bad idea, but all in all, the confusion over the NCC redesigns, coupled with insufficient volunteer staff on hand for such events produces poor execution of CP events from national to regional to wing levels and has led most of the folks I know to say forget it, and to focus on excellence in all we do at our unit level, partnering with one or two other local units, rather than expose cadets to a shoddy or marginally planned or led effort. I don't see our units strategy (of eschewing Wing/SER level events) changing much in the near future, frankly. We get far better feedback from our internal customers (cadet and parental satisfaction) when we plan, staff and execute our own events.

What eating the event up, causing poor execution and declining participation? I would suggest a need to:
SIMPLIFY THE EVENT.
REDUCE CAPP GUIDANCE PAGE COUNT and FOCUS ON A HS READING LEVEL.
PLAN FOR EXECUTION BY A REDUCED STAFF.
FOCUS ON KEY EVENTS (not peripherals like robotics).
FOCUS ON DESIRED OVERALL EFFECTS (like, improving metrics for all units/all cadets, rather than petting the dream teams)
Same approach I would recommend to rewrite the overblown new PT manual, really...


Taking a page from GUNSMOKE, or other USAF competitions, the "desired effects" that I mentioned that you'd want to see from any competition would be that your competitors would learn and trade TTPs (Tactics Techniques and Procedures) as they worked to hit the mark for each competition. With fewer units competing every year... that is a FAIL on that metric for Cadet Comp. Adding two teams per Wing doesn't fix the structural problems, however.


At the end of the day, we're not serving those small units, or encouraging individuals to compete. The expansion makes it more complex (and harder to understand and execute for volunteers at Wing and below), and the event continues to follow its history of spending a vastly tilted amount of time and effort on the bigger, wealthier units (and I say that having led several successful units that were repeat winners). In the end, allowing two Wing/Region teams merely lets more rich and or large units play with a big slice of CP funding for travel (that was approx. $3,000 - 3500 per year from GA Wing for its teams, and what was it, 80+K at NHQ level for plane tickets and rooms?) that won't be available for smaller, further away units that cant team up, or cant afford to play.


The added complexity of the events is (I am convinced) playing a factor in reducing interest in staffing it and in competing. Recognizing this and the "elite units only need apply" phenomenon when I was a DCP, I proposed a (Wing) Cadet Comp with a simplified "sand lot" format, where cadets could sign up on an individual basis, being evenly assigned on the basis of age and grade to teams under the leadership of an assigned cadre senior cadet. The cadets would then show up and meet their team leader/partners for the first time, and roll right into competing in round robin on events and on written tests, with cadets from the various units being distributed among teams (just as with Encampments). I had suggested a simplified event cycle - standard mile run, standard drill, an inspection, a written test, and an AE quiz bowl. Perhaps do it only in BDUs... At the end of the event we would give awards to the teams and individuals and dismiss (best Airman score, best C/NCO score, best C/Officer score, etc, as well as best team in category and best overall). Such a format would encourage greater participation from small units or those too remote to team up, or those units with only a handful of cadets and/or with no C/NCOs/officers to form or lead a team. At the end of the day rather than a number of vans full of disappointed cadets and only one van of winners, we would send home cadets who'd competed as individuals, AND as team members, and had had a competition experience where they may never have had a chance coming from a small unit. They would go home singly or in pairs to talk up the event and what they'd learned to their small or remote units, helping to standardize the program and to bring them into the fold - rather than to keep spending cadet funds only on the large and the big units. Who now will get to send TWO teams to compete...


V/r
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kwe1009
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« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2017, 03:23:20 PM »

Spam, great comments and insight.  I'm not sure why your Wing was waiting so late to try and have a competition.  We have done a pretty good job in my Wing of advertising far in advance (at least 6 months) and getting teams to compete.  Our competition is this weekend and we had 6 teams sign up.  There were 5 at our 2016 competition even though there wasn't a national or region competition.  This is actually an increase from 2015 and before when only 2-3 teams would participate.  It would be nice to have more teams compete but at least we are going in the right direction.

I would like to see it less complicated as well.  While NHQ has done a better job at trying to make it fair for young and experienced cadets, there is room for improvement.  Stick with core CAP cadet activities. 

The current primary events are fine.  I really like how the uniform prep and inspections work.  The electives really need to be looked at.  Speech and Jeopardy are good as they are things cadets need to learn.  I would like to see the written test portion done away with.  The service project elective needs to go as well.  Just too much work and is subjectively judged based on write-ups and pictures.  Geocaching is not a core CAP cadet activity. 

Lastly, it has to be fun for the cadets.  Under the old system the cadets did have fun even though it was a ton of work.  This new system is easier in some ways but harder in other.  This is a competition so it should not be easy.  It is also a memorable experience for the cadets, especially if they make it to Region or above.  I still have cadets talking about being on an NCC team over 4 years ago.
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UWONGO2
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« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2017, 07:23:33 PM »

My wing announced the cadet competition in late November for a February competition date. Zero squadrons expressed interest. Two squadrons competed last year.

It's too bad, there seems to be such low interest in NCC that pretty much any team that just shows up will get to go to the national competition.
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kwe1009
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Posts: 589

« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2017, 12:47:16 PM »

My wing announced the cadet competition in late November for a February competition date. Zero squadrons expressed interest. Two squadrons competed last year.

It's too bad, there seems to be such low interest in NCC that pretty much any team that just shows up will get to go to the national competition.

Many wings seem to be in this same situation from what I have heard. 

I know that a lot of squadrons have color guards and/or Honor Guards so what is keeping them from competing?  That is the $1,000,000 question I guess and one that we either find an answer to or scrape this event.  I really hope we can find a way to keep it and have more cadets get involved.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2017, 01:14:22 PM »

I know that a lot of squadrons have color guards and/or Honor Guards so what is keeping them from competing?  That is the $1,000,000 question I guess and one that we either find an answer to or scrape this event.  I really hope we can find a way to keep it and have more cadets get involved.

There's a difference between having 4-6 cadets who can post the colors at a meeting or carry them in a parade, and
having a competition "team" that is both willing and available with almost no notice, little practice time, and
potentially no seniors to escort them. (Not to mention money to support the travel, even within the state.)

I don't understand why NHQ is so "excited" about something which died very recently for lack of interest.
There's certainly no clamoring for it in these parts.  When people in my wing are discussing the challenges and resources
needed to make the program better, no one is saying "What we really need is to reboot NCC."

There are random cadets in my wing who are interested scattered in various places and none in proximity to
the others.  A couple of the larger units might have the people to field a last-minute team "because", but
in my wing and region, the Spring time is a very busy time with ES and cadet activities, and there's very few people,
even less so on the senior side, who are interested, or have the time even if there are.

Also, the NCC itself is conflicting with NCSAs, encampments, and I think even some flight academies, so I know one discussion with our more active,
visible cadets in the wing, is that even if they wanted to participate, and have a good shot at NCC if for no other reason
then low participation, they couldn't go anyway because then are expecting to be going to an NCSA or similar,
so they have no interest in investing the time at the start in something they know they can't finish.

The schedules, expectations, and locations for everything from the wings through the NCC need to be established
and on everyone's calendars before the start of the respective fiscal year.  Which means an NCC announced in
late Fall should not be any earlier then the >next< FY.

In this case, Fall 2016 equals FY 2018 NCC, at least that is reasonable from a scheduling and conflict resolution perspective.
Trying to throw things together at the last minute cold well burn out the last spirit and initiative NCC has and kill it permanently.
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Mitchell 1969
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« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2017, 03:05:47 PM »

I think what I am seeing in the new NCC is an attempt to get cadets together. Let them meet their counterparts from all over. Enjoy some fun activities related to the program, but not engage in training courses, per se. Open it up on a loosely competitive basis, but make it where a unit could send one, four or three dozen cadets, depending on local interest. In short - a CAP counterpart of a Boy Scout Jamboree.

If that's what it is, why not just bite the bullet and say so? It doesn't have to assume the persona of a long ago competition that really never required a competition. Going back to the 40's, the old National (and International) Drill Competions were really for little more than bragging rights. It was the experience that really made the difference.

So - drop the competition, retain the experience?
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Eclipse
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« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2017, 04:13:27 PM »

That's not what CAP is about - it's not a social / family organization like the BSA.  it about structure, discipline, and
goal-focused activities and training, that's why the cadets who ultimately succeed, succeed, and when units turn into rec centers,
those cadets with goals leave, as well as many seniors, and then things really go South.

CAP already has encampments and similar activities which are struggling for viability, but if you want to hear real crickets,
go to an activity where cadets are just hanging out, or worse, it'll attract mostly cadets looking to socialize, who haven't progressed in ages, and
will be run by seniors who "just like to hang with the kids".

CAP is already that in far too many areas, let's not encourage that as an actual activity.

NCC needs to be relegated to history until such time as the demographics and interest support it, and
there are enough people putting together a viable plan that it can sustain itself, instead of being a forced, last minute
"because reasons" exercise.

The start for that would be a requirement that every unit have an actual team.  Perhaps as a QCUA point, and once
that goes for a year or two, swee if there is any interest in an actual competition.

Or...

I'll trade every minute wasted on SUIs for a viable NCC.

Now there's a retention initiative that might actually have legs - trade 1-1, non-mission-centric time-wasting activities
for mission-centric activities with the same level of "required".
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CAPDCCMOM
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Posts: 240

« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2017, 06:06:18 PM »

I have to agree with Eclipse on this one. Taking the competition out of the events is the road to, "Everyone gets a trophy". I have seen our Cadets thrive on competition. I have seen the most unmotivated Cadet come back from a Basic Encampment that had a hard charging Flight Sgt, decide that he would have his Wright Bros by the beginning of Autumn, and he did.

Having Cadets just sit and be "social" and Seniors "just hang", is the first step to anarchy and chaos. We are creating leaders, not the "teens in AF Blues Social Club".

I do hesitate about making all Squadrons have a team mandatory. What about very small rural Squadrons? it may not even be feasible.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2017, 06:12:23 PM »

What about very small rural Squadrons? it may not even be feasible.

By "team" - I mean adding the structure and training to the expectations of a QCUA unit.

A unit that has enough cadets for a viable charter has enough for a 4-man color guard.

Decide what a CG is supposed to know and do, and have an SET-type evaluate that the unit has at least 4 cadets who
can do "x" by then end of each FY for a QCUA point.

Etc.

The ability to post colors in a semi-coherent way also has the added effect of being able to do that in public for
outreach, exposure and recruiting.
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Mitchell 1969
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« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2017, 03:23:26 AM »

I have to agree with Eclipse on this one. Taking the competition out of the events is the road to, "Everyone gets a trophy". I have seen our Cadets thrive on competition. I have seen the most unmotivated Cadet come back from a Basic Encampment that had a hard charging Flight Sgt, decide that he would have his Wright Bros by the beginning of Autumn, and he did.

Having Cadets just sit and be "social" and Seniors "just hang", is the first step to anarchy and chaos. We are creating leaders, not the "teens in AF Blues Social Club".

I do hesitate about making all Squadrons have a team mandatory. What about very small rural Squadrons? it may not even be feasible.

I think I'm visualizing a national version of CA Wing's Cadet Program Conference. Jeez, they had 500 people there over President's Day weekend. I've been to several and I never saw them as just cadets being social and seniors just hanging.
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Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
capmaj
Seasoned Member

Posts: 288

« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2017, 12:30:27 PM »

But to get back to my original question/s, I guess I still don/t get the idea of one team beating another at a Region comp.... and then having to face the same team again at a National comp. I understand that 1-2 of the orginal team members may change between a Region competition and the National one, but that's true of both teams.

To use the comparison made earlier to the NFL playoffs......... The NE Patriots beat the Steelers in the AFC Championship. So let's use that as the equivalent of a Region comp. The Patriots then went on to the Superbowl (the National game) to play against the winner of the NFC ( equivalent to the winner of another Region comp). There is no consideration of either the AFC or NFC champs having to play against another team from their conference (Region)

So even though I understand the desire to get as many cadets as possible interested in these types of competition and activities, aren't we still sending the same kind of message that is sent when we hold sporting events for youngsters and have the 'don't pronounce anyone the winner' philosophy?


Anyway........
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Eclipse
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« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2017, 01:01:34 PM »

"Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth...There is no spoon..."
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Spam
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« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2017, 02:52:53 PM »

But to get back to my original question/s, I guess I still don/t get the idea of one team beating another at a Region comp.... and then having to face the same team again at a National comp. I understand that 1-2 of the orginal team members may change between a Region competition and the National one, but that's true of both teams.

To use the comparison made earlier to the NFL playoffs......... The NE Patriots beat the Steelers in the AFC Championship. So let's use that as the equivalent of a Region comp. The Patriots then went on to the Superbowl (the National game) to play against the winner of the NFC ( equivalent to the winner of another Region comp). There is no consideration of either the AFC or NFC champs having to play against another team from their conference (Region)

So even though I understand the desire to get as many cadets as possible interested in these types of competition and activities, aren't we still sending the same kind of message that is sent when we hold sporting events for youngsters and have the 'don't pronounce anyone the winner' philosophy?


Anyway........

I think a truer example than the NFL might be an annual polo competition between small groups of elite private schools in a few states. Not every state has the elite private schools that can afford to compete, and not even all the elites even get the word in time to groom the horses and practice. So you end up with Vandersniff Academy versus Woodrump Prep, both representing their state at this "National" competition.

V/r
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THRAWN
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« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2017, 03:02:30 PM »

Why is this hard? Each Region winner and runner up go to Nationals. All teams compete. Winner announced. There is much rejoicing....
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Strup
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capmaj
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« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2017, 04:07:47 PM »

Why is this hard? Each Region winner and runner up go to Nationals. All teams compete. Winner announced. There is much rejoicing....


I understand the how. It's the why that's troubling.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2017, 05:39:52 PM »

To use the comparison made earlier to the NFL playoffs......... The NE Patriots beat the Steelers in the AFC Championship. So let's use that as the equivalent of a Region comp. The Patriots then went on to the Superbowl (the National game) to play against the winner of the NFC ( equivalent to the winner of another Region comp). There is no consideration of either the AFC or NFC champs having to play against another team from their conference (Region)

I realize this is going a little off course, but I'd like to fill in the NFL thing. It is possible for teams from the two conferences to play during the regular season, and then again in the Super Bowl. I think this has actually happened. Because of how the scheduling works, in a given four year period, every NFL team will play every other NFL team at least once. An NFC team will play four games against AFC teams from a single division, and vice versa.
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Dave Bowles
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kwe1009
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« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2017, 01:48:06 PM »

Why is this hard? Each Region winner and runner up go to Nationals. All teams compete. Winner announced. There is much rejoicing....


I understand the how. It's the why that's troubling.

Do you have an issue with how the NCAA basketball national championship works?  It is the same model but with way less teams.
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Spaceman3750
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« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2017, 02:07:27 PM »

To qualify for the US Olympic marathon team, they do one Olympic qualifier marathon. The top three of each gender join the Olympic team, where they will again run against each other for the gold medal. Seems to work OK for them.
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"I always wondered why somebody doesn't do something about that. Then I realized I was somebody." - Lily Tomlin
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The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Cadet Programs Management & Activities  |  Topic: Question on National Cadet Color Guard Comp.
 


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