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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Tall Tales  |  Topic: ES Activities
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KarolOpelski
Recruit

Posts: 24

« on: February 09, 2017, 10:09:40 PM »

One time, a couple years back, we did an ES Academy over Christmas break.

One woman, who had never been in an aircraft before showed up to the aircrew school. She nearly threw up on the first flight (GA8).

We all thought that she wouldn't manage to get MS by the end of the week, but the schedule was accelerated so much that she managed to get in almost ten sorties that week.

By the end, she was AP, MS, and MO.

Anyway, that's my tall tale for today.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2017, 10:14:55 PM by KarolOpelski » Logged
Shieldel
Member

Posts: 85
Unit: PCR-NV-802

« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2017, 01:31:55 PM »

So it was one week? Even then my gut wants to scream somebody did some pencil whipping. Aircrew Sorties are one per day, your "2 missions" per SQTR can be done in 2 days. Unless my wing does something "different" you -CAN- claim a sortie a day under the same mission number and get signed off on one AFAM #. For all 3 that would be 6 days. Even then so, the length and scope of an AC SQTR is very indepth and normally requires more than THE 2 sorties to truly cover everything. I mean yeah I already have my 2 sorties for MO, but I still have to fly my search patterns.
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Flight Officer Michael D. Scheidle
Jack Schofield Cadet Squadron
ES Officer
ES Training Officer
FEMA Corps Class 23 Alumni - FEMA-4277-DR-LA Deployment to Baton Rouge FEMA JFO August - October 2016
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,989

« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2017, 01:39:07 PM »

Aircrew Sorties are one per day

?

An aircrew "sortie" is "wheels up to wheels down" - there is no specific regulatory limitation of any kind, beyond fatigue,
to the number or duration of aircrew sorties in a given day.  (Unlike mission base staff which are relegated to 1-per 8 hours, and GTs to 1-per 4 / no more then 3 per day).

Further to that:
CAPR 60-3 Page 25
http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/R060_003_075A4369FBA8E.pdf

"c. Finally, after completing familiarization and preparatory training, supervised trainees
must complete advanced training and participate satisfactorily in two missions before a CAPF
101 is approved and a member is considered “Qualified.” Advanced training covers the
remainder of the tasks required for specialty qualification. On actual missions, it is expected that
these tasks could be accomplished by the trainee's supervisor or other fully trained members if
they became critical. These tasks do not have to be completed in a mission setting though. It is
acceptable for these tasks to be accomplished with similar familiarization and preparatory tasks
during routine unit training or in a formal school like the National Emergency Services
Academy. Prior approval and additional risk mitigation measures will be required by the
mission approval authority in order for these personnel to participate in a mission. Because all
trainees are properly supervised at all times, trainees are allowed to learn these "on the job."
These two “missions” do not have to be on different mission numbers, be AFAMs, or be
completed after all other advanced training is complete, but personnel must have completed all
familiarization and preparatory training in order to receive credit for these sorties. These sorties
must be complete sorties and/or operating periods
where the member participates in all aspects of
their assigned mission specialty. It is possible to participate in more than one specialty on a
given mission or day. "

As to tasks, 8 of the 20 MO tasks don't even require an aircraft, and at least two more can be accomplished
on the ground in a hangar.  MO is by no means "easy", but someone prepared could very well accomplish
all the tasks on one sortie, and certainly in a single day with multiple.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2017, 01:47:51 PM by Eclipse » Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Brad
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 776
Unit: MER-SC-020

« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2017, 01:54:59 PM »

Seconded, as a CUL/MRO and Mission Observer myself I can definitely state that aircrew sorties are not one per day. Plenty of intercept missions I've run communications for have relocation sorties for incoming resources, then actual operational sorties, then RTB relocation sorties.

Same with ground units, such as when I go on IG trips I load in one sortie for my inbound, and another on my outbound as fuel requirements change and mileage may change too due to detours for traffic and such.
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Brad Lee
Maj, CAP
Assistant Director of Communications
SCWG
K4RMN
Shieldel
Member

Posts: 85
Unit: PCR-NV-802

« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2017, 02:53:25 PM »

I'm glad some people know regs. Sorties as in a flight. You can only claim one flight for a sqtr per day. Unless we're arguing terminology, or as I previously stated my wing does it "different",  it's semantics. This is CAPTALK after all.

I forgot why I don't post too much here...
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Flight Officer Michael D. Scheidle
Jack Schofield Cadet Squadron
ES Officer
ES Training Officer
FEMA Corps Class 23 Alumni - FEMA-4277-DR-LA Deployment to Baton Rouge FEMA JFO August - October 2016
arajca
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,159

« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2017, 03:00:57 PM »

I'm glad some people know regs. Sorties as in a flight. You can only claim one flight for a sqtr per day. Unless we're arguing terminology, or as I previously stated my wing does it "different",  it's semantics. This is CAPTALK after all.

I forgot why I don't post too much here...

Cite?
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Shieldel
Member

Posts: 85
Unit: PCR-NV-802

« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2017, 03:05:19 PM »

Verbally, what I've been told by those "above my pay grade" who've signed me off before. I don't even know the first thing about regs in general, I save stuff to my iPad for those regs that apply to my CAP interests, often times I turn to my dad for reg issues as he literally is a walking dictionary. He cites it down to chapter and subsection. I just ask him for which reg this applies to and go and look for it myself. Then download it to my iPad for future reference. Again, this is CAPTALK, I forget why I don't post here too much. People are WAY too quick to jump on one another around here.
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Flight Officer Michael D. Scheidle
Jack Schofield Cadet Squadron
ES Officer
ES Training Officer
FEMA Corps Class 23 Alumni - FEMA-4277-DR-LA Deployment to Baton Rouge FEMA JFO August - October 2016
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,989

« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2017, 03:10:59 PM »

I'm glad some people know regs. Sorties as in a flight. You can only claim one flight for a sqtr per day.

Where are you getting that from?  This is 100% false.

Feel free to cite something which conflicts with the verbiage above, even if it's just NVWG policy.

I don't even know the first thing about regs in general,

Fair enough, then best to stay out of the conversation, and not be sensitive if you are found to be wrong.

People are WAY too quick to jump on one another around here.

No one "jumped on anyone" - you stated something which is false, and we cited the correction.
What's the preference?   Agreeing when something is stated which is demonstrably false because of the feels?

The last thing CAP needs is people repeating wives tales based on something they 1/2-read here.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2017, 03:15:01 PM by Eclipse » Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,989

« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2017, 03:18:34 PM »

There's also the non-trivial issue that you not-so-subtly questioned the integrity of the activity being discussed
based on misunderstanding the regulations.

So it was one week? Even then my gut wants to scream somebody did some pencil whipping.
Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Shieldel
Member

Posts: 85
Unit: PCR-NV-802

« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2017, 03:37:05 PM »

I'm glad some people know regs. Sorties as in a flight. You can only claim one flight for a sqtr per day.

Where are you getting that from?  This is 100% false.

Feel free to cite something which conflicts with the verbiage above, even if it's just NVWG policy.

I don't even know the first thing about regs in general,

Fair enough, then best to stay out of the conversation, and not be sensitive if you are found to be wrong.

People are WAY too quick to jump on one another around here.

No one "jumped on anyone" - you stated something which is false, and we cited the correction.
What's the preference?   Agreeing when something is stated which is demonstrably false because of the feels?

The last thing CAP needs is people repeating wives tales based on something they 1/2-read here.

You're right in all matters mentioned, especially about people repeating stuff. I despise when people tell me stuff that came from false sources. When I was Cadet Commander for Nellis all my deputy ever said was "IN CAWG we did xxx instead". You're in NVWG now not CAWG...different wing, different way (the way NHQ wants things, by reg, not by the wing's own book per-say)
I also should probably have been calmer. I'm breaking a personal rule of staying off the internet when I'm going through personal stuff. A little under the weather. My apologies.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2017, 03:51:55 PM by Shieldel » Logged
Flight Officer Michael D. Scheidle
Jack Schofield Cadet Squadron
ES Officer
ES Training Officer
FEMA Corps Class 23 Alumni - FEMA-4277-DR-LA Deployment to Baton Rouge FEMA JFO August - October 2016
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,989

« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2017, 03:56:50 PM »

My apologies.

None required, feel better.

1/2 the country is sick right now - my sister-in-law's kids' school has 90 students out today alone.
Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Shieldel
Member

Posts: 85
Unit: PCR-NV-802

« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2017, 04:02:48 PM »

My apologies.

None required, feel better.

1/2 the country is sick right now - my sister-in-law's kids' school has 90 students out today alone.
Meanwhile in Northern Nevada like all of the north is out sick. I work for the NV Department of Veterans Services and half of HQ up north is out sick. My illness is going to my head literally, lol. I did not mean to fly off the handle. Just trying to shed the cadet mentality and be an adult now. I'm a 20 year old flight officer, I need to act like it, ergo the apologies. We're straying from the topic, just wanted to explain where I was coming from. Now I'll leave this topic alone. I don't want to say anything more that can be misconstrued, like you said which I wholeheartedly agree with, last thing CAP needs is tales repeated  :-X
Logged
Flight Officer Michael D. Scheidle
Jack Schofield Cadet Squadron
ES Officer
ES Training Officer
FEMA Corps Class 23 Alumni - FEMA-4277-DR-LA Deployment to Baton Rouge FEMA JFO August - October 2016
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Tall Tales  |  Topic: ES Activities
 


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