Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
June 23, 2017, 01:18:27 AM
Home Help Login Register
News:

CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Encampments & NCSAs  |  Topic: CEAP - Expand The Program
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: [1] Print
Author Topic: CEAP - Expand The Program  (Read 821 times)
Juice
Recruit

Posts: 21

« on: January 06, 2017, 12:15:33 AM »

CEAP is a great program and I agree that there are still a lot of Squadrons and Encampments that are not communicating it to its members.  With that said, is there any talk about expanding this program to allow cadets other than basics to take advantage of it?  Going to an Encampment for a lot of cadets a second time as a NCO rank or a third time as an officer rank would prove invaluable in developing leadership skills. This opportunity is missed by cadets who are financially challenged. I'd like to see it expanded to allow at least these 2 additional leadership opportunities for cadets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged
Alaric
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 710

« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2017, 12:41:55 AM »

And when do we encourage our cadets to work toward goals?  I think CEAP is great and allows cadets an opportunity they may not otherwise have but how much taxpayer money do you want to spend?  Hopefully giving them the opportunity to attend an encampment will incentivize them to fundraise for future events
Logged
Spaceman3750
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,587

« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2017, 12:53:11 AM »

Repeat attendees may apply for CEAP as a priority 2 applicant IIRC.
Logged
"Anyone can hold the helm when the seas are calm ... leadership is about weathering the storm."

The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
Paul Creed III
Forum Regular

Posts: 174
Unit: GLR-OH-254

« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2017, 07:42:45 AM »

Repeat attendees may apply for CEAP as a priority 2 applicant IIRC.

Cadets who reapply are placed onto a waitlist: https://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/activities/ceap/index.cfm
Logged
Lt Col Paul Creed III, CAP
Great Lakes Region Cyber Programs Officer
Ohio Wing Group 3 Commander
Ned
Resident Philosopher

Posts: 2,079

« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2017, 01:27:10 PM »

We certainly agree that CEAP is a great program, and we continue to express our deepest appreciation to our AF colleagues who have already contributed over a million dollars to help send underserved cadets to one of the premier activities of our cadet program - a wing encampment.

The AF donors tasked us with ensuring the money primarily went to serve first-year cadets who display a financial need, and accordingly that is how the great majority of the money is distributed.  As others have noted, we will waitlist second and third year cadets, and provide some money if it is available after we have served all of the first year folks.  I think last year we were able to help something like 20 out of the 300 "repeat attendees" that asked for help.  We wish it could be more, but overall we are happy to help all the first year cadets who have applied.

Part of the beauty of the CEAP program is, that by infusing hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars into local encampments for first-year cadets, many wings have been able to increase their investment in second and third year returning cadets out of local savings and funds.  Please consider speaking with your wing DCP to see if scholarships and grants are available at the wing level for returning students and staff members.

Ned Lee
Col, CAP
National Cadet Program Manager
Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,451

« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2017, 01:55:09 PM »

Part of the beauty of the CEAP program is, that by infusing hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars into local encampments for first-year cadets, many wings have been able to increase their investment in second and third year returning cadets out of local savings and funds. 

The actual numbers that support that assertion would be interesting to see - it sounds great on paper, isn't a major factor
in many (most?) wings.

Finding ways to reduce encampment cost, vs. encouraging wings to artificially raise the price to make it seem like a better value, and then
subsidizing other participants, and "staff dinners", would also be a way to increase CEAP's reach.

Encampments should be returning overages, not placing them in wing general funds to subsidize other programs.
Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 623

« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2017, 02:29:30 PM »

Encampments should be returning overages, not placing them in wing general funds to subsidize other programs.

Are you saying that if an encampment makes a profit then it should return that money?  If so, who gets the refund?  USAF, students, etc?
Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,451

« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2017, 03:07:38 PM »

Are you saying that if an encampment makes a profit then it should return that money?  If so, who gets the refund?  USAF, students, etc?

Yes.  This is called "planning".

Preferably the money would be returned to the USAF for use in other encampments, but since I know that's not how the Feds work,
the money could go to a segregated fund at NHQ or Wing that could >only< be used for CEAP funding other encampments.

Some encampments carry financial risk because they have baseline costs for food and housing or other essentials that
they must incur regardless of whether they have 10 or 100 participants.  There's nothing wrong with establishing
a fund to insure the wing isn't bankrupted by a bad year, but that small amount should be baked into the encampment
fee and the fee is what CEAP should be reimbursing, not a raet based on USAF per-diem which generally insures
the USAF spends more the then activity cost (even outside the additional uniform allowance).

If the encampment fee is $100, that's what the CEAP should be, not $200.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2017, 03:11:40 PM by Eclipse » Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Offutteer
Forum Regular

Posts: 117

« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2017, 05:07:56 PM »

Are you saying that if an encampment makes a profit then it should return that money?  If so, who gets the refund?  USAF, students, etc?

... and the fee is what CEAP should be reimbursing, not a rate based on USAF per-diem which generally insures
the USAF spends more the then activity cost (even outside the additional uniform allowance).

If the encampment fee is $100, that's what the CEAP should be, not $200.

Welcome to the world of Appropriations.  It's easy to justify to the AF that the rate for billeting is X and we provide Y per day for food.  It's not so easy to say that wing X charges Y amount.  The AF will want to know how wing X came up with their number, and they might look at something and say that it isn't reimbursable,  disagree with an estimate or say that there isn't enough justification and demand the money be returned (after is was already spent.) 
Logged
Fubar
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 587

« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2017, 06:57:58 PM »

If the encampment fee is $100, that's what the CEAP should be, not $200.

Just to make sure I understand the argument correctly, the letter from NHQ/CP was that if encampment costs $100, charge $200 since CEAP funds $150 of it and the family "only" has to cover $50 to attend. Then that $100 profit should be used to provide seniors with free tuition, staff dinners, and other goodies.

Is this what we're being told to do?
Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,451

« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2017, 07:33:28 PM »

If the encampment fee is $100, that's what the CEAP should be, not $200.

Just to make sure I understand the argument correctly, the letter from NHQ/CP was that if encampment costs $100, charge $200 since CEAP funds $150 of it and the family "only" has to cover $50 to attend. Then that $100 profit should be used to provide seniors with free tuition, staff dinners, and other goodies.

Is this what we're being told to do?

This is the actual verbiage:
https://www.capmembers.com/file.cfm/media/blogs/documents/Encampment_Year_End_Letter__2016_32EBA1822255E.pdf
3.1. CEAP & Sticker Price. Encampments advertise a tuition or “sticker price” that all self-paying families are
charged. It’s common for regions and wings to provide encampments with seed money or in-kind support (e.g.: van
fuel, photocopying, tee shirts, guidons, telephone costs, etc.), so the sticker price does not reflect the true, actual
cost of supporting an individual cadet. Moreover, the financial experts want to ground CEAP to an objective standard
such as a fixed per diem and actual lodging cost. Therefore, the amount of funds NHQ provides to the encampments
for each CEAP cadet differs from sticker price. In practice, a CEAP payment exceeds the encampment sticker price.

3.2. Tuition for Self-Paying Families. We know that CAP encampments have long operated on shoestring
budgets. In the past, encampments agonized over even a $20 tuition increase because they (rightly!) did not want to
exclude families of modest means. Now, CEAP enables those disadvantaged cadets to participate, and so a second-
ary benefit of CEAP is that it has alleviated the price sensitivity of tuition for the great bulk of families who are able to
self-pay. For a middle class or affluent family, tuition of $250 is basically identical to $200 tuition, but that modest
$50 increase will really boost the encampment’s revenue, and in turn, improve program quality.

3.3. Tuition Averages. Nationally, the median encampment fee last summer was $158. The lowest was $75,
the highest $325. According to the American Camp Association, the average price of a week-long day camp is $304.
For an overnight camp, the cost averages $690. CAP encampments are not just a bargain, they’re priced so low that
one might wonder if encampment will be a high-quality experience. We recommend encampments aim for a tuition
rate of at least $225, which means that we recommend that most encampments raise their tuition and use those
funds to improve the quality of their programs.

3.4. Tuition Assistance. The increased revenue you gain from CEAP surpluses and higher tuition for self-
paying families could allow you to provide tuition assistance for cadets who need it but didn’t receive CEAP (for
whatever reason). For example, the cadet attempting to return for her second or third encampment, might not
receive CEAP due to first-year cadets having a higher priority. We suggest that encampments establish local policies
for tuition assistance.

3.5. Program Enhancements. If revenue increases, what are some good ways to use those funds to improve
program quality? Here are some suggestions:
• Cadet cadre training weekend (transportation, meals, lodging)
• Better meal options and healthy snacks during the day -- quantity and quality
• Equipment for aerospace programs (rocketry supplies, geocaching supplies)
• Equipment for drill and ceremonies training (color guard gear, guidons)
• Internal scholarship programs to augment CEAP (see 2.4).
• Additional “wow” activities like indoor skydiving (vertical wind tunnel), rock walls, zip-lines, etc.
• Honorarium for a compelling guest speaker (Medal of Honor recipient, pro athlete, local VIP)
• Printing – week book, graduation programs, SOPs for cadre, etc.
• Organized transportation (see 3.1) and/or reimburse more fuel costs
• Tee shirts for PT uniforms and wear during down-time
• Thank you dinner for the adult staff (a nice $20 meal; no alcohol)
Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Spaceman3750
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,587

« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2017, 07:49:41 PM »

So because low income is now covered let's stick it to the middle class? "They won't notice $50" has to be the most disrespectful thing I've read about our member families ever.

I'm not saying we have to be rock bottom. But this is detestable.

Additionally, the comparison figure of $608 completely disregards the fact that most week long overnight camp own or pay for facilities while we get ours often for free.
Logged
"Anyone can hold the helm when the seas are calm ... leadership is about weathering the storm."

The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,451

« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2017, 07:52:25 PM »

So because low income is now covered let's stick it to the middle class?

Pretty much.

Since you can afford one encampment, you can pay for two, and a plane ticket for our guest speaker!

Use, for example, the much ballyhooed "cadet earning his own way..." so now he gets to earn his way and
pay for other cadets as well?

How does that work, exactly?

"They won't notice $50" has to be the most disrespectful thing I've read about our member families ever.

Not to mention the idea that because the cost of something is not high enough, it has no value.
The Apple school of economics.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2017, 07:57:33 PM by Eclipse » Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Juice
Recruit

Posts: 21

« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2017, 12:35:20 AM »

Repeat attendees may apply for CEAP as a priority 2 applicant IIRC.
Thank you. It is good to know their is an option.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged
Juice
Recruit

Posts: 21

« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2017, 12:51:58 AM »

We certainly agree that CEAP is a great program, and we continue to express our deepest appreciation to our AF colleagues who have already contributed over a million dollars to help send underserved cadets to one of the premier activities of our cadet program - a wing encampment.

The AF donors tasked us with ensuring the money primarily went to serve first-year cadets who display a financial need, and accordingly that is how the great majority of the money is distributed.  As others have noted, we will waitlist second and third year cadets, and provide some money if it is available after we have served all of the first year folks.  I think last year we were able to help something like 20 out of the 300 "repeat attendees" that asked for help.  We wish it could be more, but overall we are happy to help all the first year cadets who have applied.

Part of the beauty of the CEAP program is, that by infusing hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars into local encampments for first-year cadets, many wings have been able to increase their investment in second and third year returning cadets out of local savings and funds.  Please consider speaking with your wing DCP to see if scholarships and grants are available at the wing level for returning students and staff members.

Ned Lee
Col, CAP
National Cadet Program Manager

Thank you for your feedback. It is helpful to know that repeat cadets can apply for the wait list. The huge issue in our Wing is a clear understanding of the CEAP program and communicating to its members when it's time to apply for various national programs and activities. The Wing also had not put on its own Encampment for years (this past summer being the first in a few years) and unfortunately due to members being new, it wasn't managed very well.  The Wing also does not have a lot of funds to support Wing events and there isn't anyone really working on the fundraising front and a lot of squadron fundraising activities are frowned upon, which is why I asked the question. Our members are just having a difficult time fundraising. With that said, we have cadets taking after school jobs to help each other come up with the funds needed to attend the encampments a second or third time. It is heartwarming to see teenagers come together and share funds they worked hard for over several months to come up with enough money to go to an Encampment themselves and with their friends. We also have some wonderful parents who also give to the kids by paying fees for kids they know who can't afford the fee. It is good to know I can encourage them to apply for the wait list as another option. THANK YOU!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged
Pages: [1] Print 
CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Encampments & NCSAs  |  Topic: CEAP - Expand The Program
 


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP SMF 2.0.13 | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.447 seconds with 20 queries.
click here to email me