Berets?

[GreerThorne]

So I just joined CAP about a month ago and I'm working on getting all of my uniforms (blues and ABUs). While I was scrolling through Vanguard I saw a beret. Now, I had just been talking about how I was jealous of my friend in Army Cadet Force in England for their standard beret.

Anyways...my point... Can I wear a beret and if so what cap device do I need?

SM Sherbert

[SarDragon]

No.

And there's no need to bump up the type size. Us old guys can read the regular size just fine.

[GreerThorne]

Thank you.

And I'm legally blind so I can't see the normal font size very well. I have to put it at 18pt

[Damron]

So I just joined CAP about a month ago and I'm working on getting all of my uniforms (blues and ABUs). While I was scrolling through Vanguard I saw a beret. Now, I had just been talking about how I was jealous of my friend in Army Cadet Force in England for their standard beret.

Anyways...my point... Can I wear a beret and if so what cap device do I need?

SM Sherbert

Welcome aboard!

As strange as it may sound, the only cadets that may wear the blue beret are those that have participated in an annual two-week activity associated with the annual EAA fly-in in Oshkosh, Wisconsin.


Two national activities have special headgear authorized for year-round wear.

Your cadet commander should be able to answer most of your uniform questions.  Otherwise, consult your squadron commander .

[A.Member]

So I just joined CAP about a month ago and I'm working on getting all of my uniforms (blues and ABUs). While I was scrolling through Vanguard I saw a beret. Now, I had just been talking about how I was jealous of my friend in Army Cadet Force in England for their standard beret.

Anyways...my point... Can I wear a beret and if so what cap device do I need?

SM Sherbert

Welcome aboard!

As strange as it may sound, the only cadets that may wear the blue beret are those that have participated in an annual two-week activity associated with the annual EAA fly-in in Oshkosh, Wisconsin.


Two national activities have special headgear authorized for year-round wear.

Your cadet commander should be able to answer most of your uniform questions.  Otherwise, consult your squadron commander .

He/she is not a cadet.  He/she is a senior member, as evidenced by the "signature".

The answer is an unambiguous - no!

[Eclipse]

Now, see what happens when we assume?

The only authorization for the beret with the ABU is for successful graduates of National Blue Beret, and then only
during the activity itself.

There are a couple of wings who have sen fit to authorize berets with BDUs for GTMs, however I don't believe any of them are
in NER (NV & IN).

[PHall]

Now, see what happens when we assume?

The only authorization for the beret with the ABU is for successful graduates of National Blue Beret, and then only
during the activity itself.

There are a couple of wings who have sen fit to authorize berets with BDUs for GTMs, however I don't believe any of them are
in NER (NV & IN).

Didn't know that NV (Nevada) was in the North East Region.

[Luis R. Ramos]

PH,

You answered to Eclipse. That is precisely what he said. That NV is not in the NER. It may be that everyone started answering in big type and you may have mistaken their 18 ft size with the OP...

[Eclipse]

Didn't know that NV (Nevada) was in the North East Region.

No one said or inferred they were.

[USACAP]

Actually - Sherbert may wear a beret if he pleases ... just not with a CAP uniform.

[Ozzy]

As strange as it may sound, the only cadets that may wear the blue beret are those that have participated in an annual two-week activity associated with the annual EAA fly-in in Oshkosh, Wisconsin.

Curiosity, can't senior members wear the blue beret if they have attended NBB?

[PHall]

As strange as it may sound, the only cadets that may wear the blue beret are those that have participated in an annual two-week activity associated with the annual EAA fly-in in Oshkosh, Wisconsin.

Curiosity, can't senior members wear the blue beret if they have attended NBB?

What does the current CAPM 39-1 say?

[Ozzy]

What does the current CAPM 39-1 say?

6.2.5.  Beret.  Navy blue. May be worn by National Blue Beret graduates or by other members when specifically authorized by wing or region supplement or additional NHQ directive. May only be worn with the BDU or Blue Field Uniform.  Position headband straight across the forehead, one inch above the eyebrows. Drape the top over the right ear and the stiffener.  Adjust ribbon for comfort, tie in a knot, and tuck inside or cut-off.  Appropriate flight cap device will be worn unless worn due to Blue Beret attendance, in which case the member will wear the Blue Beret, beret device.

I read 39-1, I just was assuming someone was referring to a Interim Change Letter that was made that I wasn't aware of. But you know what they say when you assume...

[ColonelJack]

And besides, berets are just silly French hats, anyway.

Jack

[Okayish Aviator]

CAPR-39-1 is always the answer... unless it's not clear enough. lol.

As an 05-06 NBB graduate, I do like the idea of wearing the beret when able, especially from the standpoint of generating interest for NCSA's for the cadets and get them thinking about setting goals for themselves to attend some of these activities. I also think it looks 100% better in ABU's and all other uniforms with the dark blue tapes since they now match. (which seems to be a common theme).

HOWEVER, I will say that the beret is an incredibly non-useful head device and even NBB doesn't wear it when 'on duty' at the activity. We wear our normal field caps for ES work and anything else that requires getting things done.

I know there seems to still be a lot of hate out there for berets, and a lot of people don't like the idea of graduates of the activity being able to wear them when others can't but I think that's kinda the whole point. You wouldn't let someone who hadn't gone through the process to get their GT badge or aviation badge wear one right? I kind of look at it the same way. The hat itself isn't what makes that particular activity special anyways... it's what the activity instills in it's members, and what the crest means deep down that is at the heart of what CAP is as a program. Framing it properly can help build the program. For those of you who have seen our recruiting and retention numbers know we can use all the help we can get in that regard to keep the program alive.

[arajca]

I know there seems to still be a lot of hate out there for berets, and a lot of people don't like the idea of graduates of the activity being able to wear them when others can't but I think that's kinda the whole point. You wouldn't let someone who hadn't gone through the process to get their GT badge or aviation badge wear one right? I kind of look at it the same way. The hat itself isn't what makes that particular activity special anyways... it's what the activity instills in it's members, and what the crest means deep down that is at the heart of what CAP is as a program. Framing it properly can help build the program. For those of you who have seen our recruiting and retention numbers know we can use all the help we can get in that regard to keep the program alive.

Where to start?
The issue for most folks who dislike or hate the beret isn't that only certain folks can get it. It's the general attitude those folks bring back - they're now part of an ELITE unit. They have been disruptive in units as they don't get that they need to share their knowledge, not lord it over everyone else. I've been told that this attitude is not taught at NBB, but that's what comes back.

As for NBB not being about the hat, for a couple years, the beret was removed from the program and it was failing until the beret was brought back. So it is about the hat.

[Fubar]

As an 05-06 NBB graduate, I do like the idea of wearing the beret when able, especially from the standpoint of generating interest for NCSA's for the cadets and get them thinking about setting goals for themselves to attend some of these activities.

Just to be clear, berets can only be worn with ABUs at the activity only. Not that DocJekyll was suggesting otherwise, but there are different rules between BDUs and ABUs when it comes to the funny hat:

Encampments and Activities. Encampment Commanders and/or Activity Directors may authorize the wear
of Encampment/Activity specific t-shirts or headgear for wear at the Encampment/Activity only. Examples of these
items would be Baseball Caps, Berets (Blue Beret Activity only), or a different color t-shirt. Encampment/Activity
specific items will not be worn outside of the Encampment/Activity.

6.2.5. Beret. Navy blue. May be worn by National Blue Beret graduates or by other members when
specifically authorized by wing or region supplement or additional NHQ directive. May only be worn
with the BDU or Blue Field Uniform. Position headband straight across the forehead, one inch above the
eyebrows. Drape the top over the right ear and the stiffener. Adjust ribbon for comfort, tie in a knot, and
tuck inside or cut-off. Appropriate flight cap device will be worn unless worn due to Blue Beret
attendance, in which case the member will wear the Blue Beret, beret device.

The update to CAPM 39-1 a couple of years ago now authorizes blue berets for anyone, not just NBB participants (with the appropriate wing or region supplement).

[A.Member]

...Just to be clear, berets can only be worn with ABUs BDUs or Blue Field uniform at the activity only. Not that DocJekyll was suggesting otherwise, but there are different rules between BDUs and ABUs when it comes to the funny hat:
...

Corrected for you and evidenced later in your quote of 39-1.  It cannot be worn with ABUs, even at the activity.  Attention to detail. 

[jeders]

...Just to be clear, berets can only be worn with ABUs BDUs or Blue Field uniform at the activity only. Not that DocJekyll was suggesting otherwise, but there are different rules between BDUs and ABUs when it comes to the funny hat:
...

Corrected for you and evidenced later in your quote of 39-1.  It cannot be worn with ABUs, even at the activity.  Attention to detail. 

Actually, yes it can be worn in ABUs at the activity, reference the second policy letter on the wear of the ABU.

[PA Guy]

Redacted

[PA Guy]

Where to start?
The issue for most folks who dislike or hate the beret isn't that only certain folks can get it. It's the general attitude those folks bring back - they're now part of an ELITE unit. They have been disruptive in units as they don't get that they need to share their knowledge, not lord it over everyone else. I've been told that this attitude is not taught at NBB, but that's what comes back.

As for NBB not being about the hat, for a couple years, the beret was removed from the program and it was failing until the beret was brought back. So it is about the hat.

I wish I had said that.  :clap: :clap:

[fixed the quote tags]

[Fubar]

...Just to be clear, berets can only be worn with ABUs BDUs or Blue Field uniform at the activity only. Not that DocJekyll was suggesting otherwise, but there are different rules between BDUs and ABUs when it comes to the funny hat:
...

Corrected for you and evidenced later in your quote of 39-1.  It cannot be worn with ABUs, even at the activity.  Attention to detail. 

CAPM 39-1 does not address the ABU yet, it's all handled by the "CAP Transition to the Airman Battle Uniform" memo from the CAP/CC. The first memo was published 4 May 2016 and included an attachment called "ABU Wear instructions", with updated ABU Wear instructions dated 7 July 2016, and then 24 Oct 2016.

As it stands, CAPM 39-1 goes from chapter 6 to chapter 8, so there's a decent chance the ABU chapter in CAPM 39-1 will eventually be chapter 7.

But you're right, attention to detail is important.

[Okayish Aviator]

Well, I never stated that the beret could be worn in ABU outside of the activity, only that I see the merits of doing so with it as it is with the other uniforms currently. It does state quite clearly in the ABU wear instructions that the field cap is the ONLY headgear authorized for wear (not withstanding safety concerns due to cold weather of course) aside from during the activity.

I know there seems to still be a lot of hate out there for berets, and a lot of people don't like the idea of graduates of the activity being able to wear them when others can't but I think that's kinda the whole point. You wouldn't let someone who hadn't gone through the process to get their GT badge or aviation badge wear one right? I kind of look at it the same way. The hat itself isn't what makes that particular activity special anyways... it's what the activity instills in it's members, and what the crest means deep down that is at the heart of what CAP is as a program. Framing it properly can help build the program. For those of you who have seen our recruiting and retention numbers know we can use all the help we can get in that regard to keep the program alive.

Where to start?
The issue for most folks who dislike or hate the beret isn't that only certain folks can get it. It's the general attitude those folks bring back - they're now part of an ELITE unit. They have been disruptive in units as they don't get that they need to share their knowledge, not lord it over everyone else. I've been told that this attitude is not taught at NBB, but that's what comes back.

As for NBB not being about the hat, for a couple years, the beret was removed from the program and it was failing until the beret was brought back. So it is about the hat.

That is something I've actively fought for those who are new to the activity. Of course to young kids to an extent it's going to be about a hat. That's part of what you have to address at the activity. I also agree with you 100% about the beret's needing to share knowledge obtained at the activity, and try to discourage the negative connotations you've outlined. I would also say that we can get that with just about ANY activity. Ranger rolls and Hawk anyone? Perhaps that points to a larger issue than a hat itself. I'll leave that to others to figure out though.

[arajca]

That is something I've actively fought for those who are new to the activity. Of course to young kids to an extent it's going to be about a hat. That's part of what you have to address at the activity. I also agree with you 100% about the beret's needing to share knowledge obtained at the activity, and try to discourage the negative connotations you've outlined. I would also say that we can get that with just about ANY activity. Ranger rolls and Hawk anyone? Perhaps that points to a larger issue than a hat itself. I'll leave that to others to figure out though.

You'll find many of us have the same issues with Hawk Mountain and have no problem mentioning it when asked or provoked.

[Holding Pattern]

GreerThorne, please note that you can alter the size of almost every web page online by holding down the control key and pressing the PLUS key at the same time. This also works on the eServices online testing. Hopefully this tip helps you out.