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Damron
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« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2016, 02:49:46 AM »

<snip>
On a side note: I have two members that submitted CDI packets.  What's the average length of time for approval?

The average length of time for an appointment for a Chaplain or CDI depends on the time the initial paperwork (application/recommendation letter) gets from the local squadron (Sq CC signs off) to wing chaplain (Wing CC signs off) then to the region chaplain for a final look over of the packet -- making sure everything is in order.  The region chaplain fires it off to NHQ for the Chief's approval.  The Chief acts very quickly once the packet gets to NHQ.  Speaking as a former region chaplain, I made it a point to get the packet off my desk within 48 hours.

Thanks.  I have a packet that took almost six months to get to NHQ, with frequent cage rattling.   I guess CDI isn't really a priority in my wing.
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« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2016, 02:22:14 PM »


Respectfully, think we should protect differences, not wipe them out. That's one of our key EEO principles, last I'd looked.


(Whats up here, that I of all people have turned into the diversity officer?  How come diversity is good unless you're a chaplain in which case your identity should be suppressed)????


V/r
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Let's act like CAP is an employer and bound by EEO as described in Title 7. 

There's a difference between protecting religious identity and observance of members, an EEO principle, and  promotion of employer-led programs of a religious nature, which are permitted but are a common cause of EEO complaints.  Cases related to Title 7 have found that employees must be able to opt-out of employer-led programs of a religious nature without recourse.

So, there is a difference between allowing a member the observance of his faith and creating "employer-led" programs of a religious nature.  If our chaplains are supposed to serve all members, why should they wear insignia of one faith?  We shouldn't "see" a member as Jewish. Why should we see a chaplain as Jewish?   

I am making some assumptions.  A chaplain could be an atheist.  I imagine some are.  I don't think that belief is a requirement.   However, it's likely a chaplain wearing the cross is Christian and thinks that non-Christians can look forward to eternal [darn]ation.  Given that we embrace diversity, how can this not be an issue? 

So, no, I don't think that chaplains should wear the insignia of their religious association for the same reason I don't think members should wear religious items not required as a matter of observance.

I see your point now; that's a good logic train. Thanks Damron.

How about this in return...

As far as Christian chaplain views on atheist service members, it matters not at all. Their mission is not to proselytize the atheist, but to serve those members who ARE ALREADY in a faith (their faith), as well as any troops that voluntarily approach them with issues.

So then, by way of analogy for the uniform issue, the military has medical officers, medical service corps officers, nursing officers, physiologists and so forth ad infinitum. They wear their branch and corps insignia, which identify them as "tech specialists" for a consult. By then identifying chaplains by faith specialization they are coded by their KSAs (knowledge, skills, and abilities). Having this new badge (however it looks) is part of that and then becomes a de facto specialty ID for those seeking their faith tradition for a consult. If you need a doc, you see a doc. An physiologist for an altitude chamber requal, you go see one. Confession, an RC chaplain. High holy days worship, the Jewish chaplain, and so forth.

One size would not fit all, any more than tasking an avionics rating to fix the tail rotor assembly. That, in my view, is why we SHOULD see the chaplain as Jewish, as you say.

V/r
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Eclipse
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« Reply #42 on: December 08, 2016, 03:19:48 PM »

So then, by way of analogy for the uniform issue, the military has medical officers, medical service corps officers, nursing officers, physiologists and so forth ad infinitum. They wear their branch and corps insignia, which identify them as "tech specialists" for a consult. By then identifying chaplains by faith specialization they are coded by their KSAs (knowledge, skills, and abilities). Having this new badge (however it looks) is part of that and then becomes a de facto specialty ID for those seeking their faith tradition for a consult. If you need a doc, you see a doc. An physiologist for an altitude chamber requal, you go see one. Confession, an RC chaplain. High holy days worship, the Jewish chaplain, and so forth.

1 - Comparing the CAP situation to the military fails as CAP is not a 24x7x365 situation and people can seek out their own medical and religious professionals.

2 - No one is finding a Chaplain, Dr, or EMT based on their badge (as has bee asserted here before) anymore then they are staffing missions based on badges.
There are specific credentials, currency, and qualifications irrespective of badges worn, especially since they badges aren't even mandatory on at least 1/2 the uniforms.

I have no issue, per se with them, they just aren't relevent to CAP.
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Chappie
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« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2016, 05:12:11 PM »

<snip>
I have no issue, per se with them, they just aren't relevent to CAP.

And on that note, we differ.  CAP Chaplains have a place and a role in this organization.  On this we can trade war stories, anecdotal accounts, philosophical opinions and viewpoints...ad nauseam.  You have your opinion/viewpoint and I have mine.   And I will continue to do my best (as I have for the past 20+ years)  in the role of a CAP Chaplain to serve the commander whose staff I am fortunate to serve on and to serve the members of CAP (and their families) with whom I am entrusted.
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Storm Chaser
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« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2016, 09:00:00 PM »

<snip>
If you could, I would appreciate clarification on the CSS prerequisite. Why the CDI requirement? Why should a member wanting to support the Mission Chaplain role as a Chaplain Support Specialist have to be appointed as a CDI first? CDI has nothing to do with Emergency Services and everything to do with Cadet Programs. I can think of members who are not CDI, but would probably like to pursue the CSS qualification. Thank you for any information you can provide.

Answer came:  the CSS rating is created/designed for Chaplain Corps personnel so that Chaplains/CDIs can form a Chaplain Support Team.  Many CDIs had expressed a desire to assist Chaplains in handling administrative/logistical duties that might distract the Chaplain...should the Chaplain be engaged in other matters, the CDI can sit in on briefings.    There is the MSA rating that others can pursue who are not members of the Chaplain Corps (in fact, that is one of my secondary ES ratings).

Thank you for responding to my question. I think I see the disconnect here. While CDIs are part of the Chaplain Corps (at least on paper), the reality is that many CDIs, if not the majority, don't work directly with Chaplains, but as part of the Cadet Programs staff.

I would venture to say that that's probably the primary motivation, if not only, for members to seek CDI appointment. Considering the CDI scope is limited to Cadet Character Development using a pre-approved curriculum, and that their training and education is limited to that, I don't believe their appointment makes them more qualified or suitable than other members to pursue CSS qualification. In fact, I suspect the CDI requirement will prevent good, suitable candidates from becoming CSS, and force others to seek CDI appointment even though they may have no interest in instructing Character Development.

All that being said, I have no issues with the specialty and can even see it's merits. I just don't agree with the CDI prerequisite.
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Chappie
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« Reply #45 on: December 09, 2016, 12:40:17 AM »


4. Character Development Instructors.

a. CDIs are a part of the CAP Chaplain Corps and are appointed to provide character development instruction in the cadet program.  CDIs will only use Character Development material approved by the CAP Chief of Chaplains and provided on-line through the National Headquarters website.

b. The CDI works under the direction of a chaplain designated by the wing chaplain. 

c. Commanders will make character development instruction available during cadet meetings per guidance in CAPR 52-16 paragraph 1-7 d.   

d. CDIs will not use the title “Chaplain” nor wear chaplain insignia. When duly appointed and upon completion of the Character Development Specialty track at the technician level, CDIs may wear the specialty badge.

e. When working under the guidance of a chaplain, CDIs may provide non-clergy support for chaplain professional ministry. CAP members may offer non-denominational prayers in the absence of a unit chaplain.

f. CAP members who are ordained ministers serving in the capacity of CDI are not granted confidentiality or privileged communication in CAP
 
According to the above section of the CAPR 265-1, there is a direct connection between CDIs and Chaplains.  The new ES rating is based upon that relationship between CDIs and Chaplains.   The development of the ES rating was in response to many CDIs who expressed a desire to work with the Mission Chaplain in the ES environment.  As mentioned in my previous posting, there is the MSA rating that non-CDIs could pursue.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #46 on: December 09, 2016, 12:52:26 AM »

According to the above section of the CAPR 265-1, there is a direct connection between CDIs and Chaplains.

Yes, but it's the super-secret clause "f", known only to the Illuminati, where the real power lies.

These secrets and more are exposed in the new Tom Hanks thriller "Inferno", playing now in a theater near you!
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Chappie
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« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2016, 01:06:37 AM »

According to the above section of the CAPR 265-1, there is a direct connection between CDIs and Chaplains.

Yes, but it's the super-secret clause "f", known only to the Illuminati, where the real power lies.

These secrets and more are exposed in the new Tom Hanks thriller "Inferno", playing now in a theater near you!

I see you caught my terrible "copy and paste" job on the first go-around.  The secret clause "f" now longer exists :(   However, I am looking forward to seeing what secrets and more about the CAP Chaplain Corps will be exposed in the new movie release.   Hopefully, I can be further enlightened on the inner workings of the CAP Chaplain Corps.   nod nod  ;)  ;)
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Storm Chaser
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« Reply #48 on: December 09, 2016, 02:36:54 AM »


4. Character Development Instructors.

a. CDIs are a part of the CAP Chaplain Corps and are appointed to provide character development instruction in the cadet program.  CDIs will only use Character Development material approved by the CAP Chief of Chaplains and provided on-line through the National Headquarters website.

b. The CDI works under the direction of a chaplain designated by the wing chaplain. 

c. Commanders will make character development instruction available during cadet meetings per guidance in CAPR 52-16 paragraph 1-7 d.   

d. CDIs will not use the title “Chaplain” nor wear chaplain insignia. When duly appointed and upon completion of the Character Development Specialty track at the technician level, CDIs may wear the specialty badge.

e. When working under the guidance of a chaplain, CDIs may provide non-clergy support for chaplain professional ministry. CAP members may offer non-denominational prayers in the absence of a unit chaplain.

f. CAP members who are ordained ministers serving in the capacity of CDI are not granted confidentiality or privileged communication in CAP
 
According to the above section of the CAPR 265-1, there is a direct connection between CDIs and Chaplains.  The new ES rating is based upon that relationship between CDIs and Chaplains.   The development of the ES rating was in response to many CDIs who expressed a desire to work with the Mission Chaplain in the ES environment.  As mentioned in my previous posting, there is the MSA rating that non-CDIs could pursue.

I'm very familiar with the regulation. Reality, however, is another thing. How can a CDI work under the direction of a Chaplain when one is not always readily available to provide direction? In my wing, for example, less that 18% of units have an active Chaplain. In my group, that number is 14%. My experience is that most members become CDIs not because they want to be part of the Chaplain Corps, but because they can't instruct Character Development, a requirement of the Cadet Programs, without the appointment. CAPR 52-16, Para. 1-7d(2)(b) only allows Unit Commanders to "temporarily lead character forums", hence the CDI appointment becomes a requirement when a chaplain is not available.

Most CDIs I've encountered are Cadet Programs Officers who sought the appointment because otherwise they couldn't meet the Character Development requirement. I'm sure some CDIs genuinely want to work hand-in-hand with Chaplains, but I believe many, if not most, just want to work with cadets. If that's the case, then the Chaplain Corps may not be able to recruit members for CSS qualification in sufficient numbers to make a difference. Or, those who really want to serve in that capacity may be forced to seek CDI appointment event if they had not motivation to do so before.

A better approach, in my opinion, would be to open the CSS qualification to any member who's interested. That's how every other ES qualification (Logistics, Communications, Safety, Operations, etc.) works. Why should CSS be any different?

Anyway, that's my two cents worth. I've had great experience with Chaplains and do see their value in the organization. I also see the merits of this qualification, although I'm still not convinced about the CDI requirement. Either way, I wish the program well.
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Fubar
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« Reply #49 on: December 09, 2016, 03:23:37 AM »

Most CDIs I've encountered are Cadet Programs Officers who sought the appointment because otherwise they couldn't meet the Character Development requirement.

I believe our experiences are similar, however I have also seen a significant number of CDIs who consider themselves chaplain substitutes. Everything from leading prayers prior to an activity to insisting they should counsel a homesick cadet at encampment because of their CDI designation.

Linking CDIs to this new ES chaplain support qualification is not going to help stem the chaplain-lite problem. While on paper, a CDI is supposed to work under a chaplain, they typically exist because there is no chaplain available. So folks become CDIs either to meet the requirements to provide character discussions or because they think they can fill in for the chaplain. While the second group, while blatantly misappropriating the purpose of being a CDI, may be your target audience for the new ES support position. The first group definitely isn't.
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Chappie
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« Reply #50 on: December 09, 2016, 01:25:02 PM »


4. Character Development Instructors.

a. CDIs are a part of the CAP Chaplain Corps and are appointed to provide character development instruction in the cadet program.  CDIs will only use Character Development material approved by the CAP Chief of Chaplains and provided on-line through the National Headquarters website.

b. The CDI works under the direction of a chaplain designated by the wing chaplain. 

c. Commanders will make character development instruction available during cadet meetings per guidance in CAPR 52-16 paragraph 1-7 d.   

d. CDIs will not use the title “Chaplain” nor wear chaplain insignia. When duly appointed and upon completion of the Character Development Specialty track at the technician level, CDIs may wear the specialty badge.

e. When working under the guidance of a chaplain, CDIs may provide non-clergy support for chaplain professional ministry. CAP members may offer non-denominational prayers in the absence of a unit chaplain.

f. CAP members who are ordained ministers serving in the capacity of CDI are not granted confidentiality or privileged communication in CAP
 
According to the above section of the CAPR 265-1, there is a direct connection between CDIs and Chaplains.  The new ES rating is based upon that relationship between CDIs and Chaplains.   The development of the ES rating was in response to many CDIs who expressed a desire to work with the Mission Chaplain in the ES environment.  As mentioned in my previous posting, there is the MSA rating that non-CDIs could pursue.


I'm very familiar with the regulation. Reality, however, is another thing. How can a CDI work under the direction of a Chaplain when one is not always readily available to provide direction? In my wing, for example, less that 18% of units have an active Chaplain. In my group, that number is 14%. My experience is that most members become CDIs not because they want to be part of the Chaplain Corps, but because they can't instruct Character Development, a requirement of the Cadet Programs, without the appointment. CAPR 52-16, Para. 1-7d(2)(b) only allows Unit Commanders to "temporarily lead character forums", hence the CDI appointment becomes a requirement when a chaplain is not available.

The mechanism is found in the CAPR 265-1.   The Wing Chaplain, for all intents and purposes, is the "go-to-guy".   From the initial application process to appointment, the CDI and the Wing Chaplain have connected.  The Wing Chaplain, per CAPR 265-1, designates a chaplain who works with the CDI.  There are other resources readily available to the CDI (attendance at Wing Conferences/CCRSC/Facebook groups for the Chaplain Corps personnel/etc.).  Your observation about many members becoming CDIs -- not to become part of the Chaplain Corps but to instruct Character Development is partially correct as many members do want to be part of the Chaplain Corps.   It's an interesting mix :)  The appointment of a CDI to facilitate the sessions is a way to provide accountability that Character Development would be conducted in the manner it is designed for.  For years, the Chaplain Corps heard of squadrons where Character Development was not being presented...or if conducted, was treated more like a "safety briefing" where someone would basically take a couple of minutes and remind cadets to follow the Core Values or "play nicely with others".  The current Chief and members of the CCEC began looking at the CDI position and the program and made significant changes.  First in the appointment requirements of a CDI: a recommendation letter from someone other than their squadron commander (that takes place on the F35A) and the completion of TLC Basic (since they are working with Cadets) as well as the Basic Instructor Course.  Secondly, the 225 Specialty Track for CDIs was another item that needed attention.  It had not been updated since 2001 (and IMHO was woeful).  The Chief established a task force that consisted of CDIs to develop the current (Feb 16) guide.   This was their "baby".

Most CDIs I've encountered are Cadet Programs Officers who sought the appointment because otherwise they couldn't meet the Character Development requirement. I'm sure some CDIs genuinely want to work hand-in-hand with Chaplains, but I believe many, if not most, just want to work with cadets. If that's the case, then the Chaplain Corps may not be able to recruit members for CSS qualification in sufficient numbers to make a difference. Or, those who really want to serve in that capacity may be forced to seek CDI appointment event if they had not motivation to do so before.


That is an universal matter in CAP....even though the organization is committed to a three-fold mission, members are free to pick and choose what they want (or don't want to do).  There are chaplains who don't want to work at encampments -- but will teach CD in the squadron; don't want to do ES but want to AE or another PD specialty track; don't want to progress in the Professional Development program and take on higher level responsibilities...we have chaplains who are pilots and love to provide O-rides.   What is true of chaplains can probably be said of senior members as well.   We are not looking to recruit members for CSS qualification, rather we are providing them the opportunity to serve in a capacity they desire to do so.  For several years, not all Chaplains were ES qualified.  That issue was addressed in the CAPP 221 (April 11) when obtaining a GES rating was required for their Technician rating.  However, not all Chaplains are Mission Chaplain rated.


A better approach, in my opinion, would be to open the CSS qualification to any member who's interested. That's how every other ES qualification (Logistics, Communications, Safety, Operations, etc.) works. Why should CSS be any different?


I will pass on your observations to the task force that is developing the new ES ratings for their consideration.

Anyway, that's my two cents worth. I've had great experience with Chaplains and do see their value in the organization. I also see the merits of this qualification, although I'm still not convinced about the CDI requirement. Either way, I wish the program well.''

Appreciate your input and support.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #51 on: December 09, 2016, 01:57:53 PM »

How is the actual inspection finding going to be addressed for the majority of CAP Chaplains who won't attend NESA?

Is this actually a "problem", or does this check box fill the USAF's check box and everyone moves on?

I would imagine mandating the missing training would require an update to 265-1 as Chaplain appointments today
require no internal CAP training.
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Chappie
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« Reply #52 on: December 09, 2016, 02:37:05 PM »

How is the actual inspection finding going to be addressed for the majority of CAP Chaplains who won't attend NESA?

Is this actually a "problem", or does this check box fill the USAF's check box and everyone moves on?

I would imagine mandating the missing training would require an update to 265-1 as Chaplain appointments today
require no internal CAP training.

NESA is but one venue for the training.   A chaplain attending NESA can knock out all the requirements for the Mission Chaplain rating (s) in one week.   Most of the courses required are FEMA courses which can be taken on-line.   The uniquely CAP courses will be offered at CCRSC, Wing/Region Conferences (breakout sessions for the Chaplain Corps personnel), as well as on-line similar to other ES ratings.  It will take a bit longer to attain the rating but is doable.

Having a GES rating is required of all Chaplains to attain their Technician Rating in the PD program....the Mission Chaplain rating for the Senior Rating in PD.  Placing those requirements in the updated 221 was a means to help "motivate" more chaplains to get involved in ES...since it is part of CAP's mission.  It does not need to be in the CAPR 265-1 as it is in the CAPP 221 -- and is needed to advance in CAP both in responsibility and grade.
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Chappie
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« Reply #53 on: December 09, 2016, 02:44:47 PM »

Most CDIs I've encountered are Cadet Programs Officers who sought the appointment because otherwise they couldn't meet the Character Development requirement.

I believe our experiences are similar, however I have also seen a significant number of CDIs who consider themselves chaplain substitutes. Everything from leading prayers prior to an activity to insisting they should counsel a homesick cadet at encampment because of their CDI designation.

Linking CDIs to this new ES chaplain support qualification is not going to help stem the chaplain-lite problem. While on paper, a CDI is supposed to work under a chaplain, they typically exist because there is no chaplain available. So folks become CDIs either to meet the requirements to provide character discussions or because they think they can fill in for the chaplain. While the second group, while blatantly misappropriating the purpose of being a CDI, may be your target audience for the new ES support position. The first group definitely isn't.

Let's take a look at the two examples of CDIs "who consider themselves chaplain substitutes":

Leading prayers -- Per the CAPR 265-1 Section B, Paragraph 4,item e.:  CAP members may offer non-denominational prayers in the absence of a unit chaplain.  In other words, offering prayers is not exclusive to chaplains.  CDIs...as well as any CAP member is not restricted to offering a prayer at a CAP function.

Counseling homesick cadets at Encampment -- Per the CAPP 216 under Service Requirements (page 4): “Cadet Programs Officer” is an umbrella term referring to any senior member whose primary focus is cadets. It is not a formal duty title. Most of the individuals serving in the roles below consider themselves to be Cadet Programs Officers. The service requirements are met by actively participating in one of these positions. It goes on to list 14 positions at the Squadron, Group, Wing, Region level including CDIs and Chaplains.  So one can be a "Cadet Programs Officer", yet not have a rating in the Cadet Programs Specialty Track (personally, I have a Master rating in Cadet Programs and from my time as a Wing Chaplain in the dark ages until now, I have encouraged all members of the Chaplain Corps to at least obtain the Technician rating in the Cadet Programs specialty Track).


Per the CAPP 52-24 Cadet Encampment Guide, Part 4 - Training Officers, one of the Major Functional Areas include "personal counseling of cadets, as necessary" (3.f.)

I have been on Encampment staffs since 1997.  From my observation,  Training Officers (formerly called "Tactical Officers") consist of senior members, some who hold Cadet Programs ratings, some who hold CDI ratings, and others who don't.   The Encampment Staff does not have a designated position as Encampment CDI...never has, never will.  So to imagine, a CDI attending an encampment for the sole purpose of counseling cadets is far-fetched.   A CDI at encampment cadets, would be doing so...not as a "Chaplain Substitute" or "Chaplain-Lite, but in their role/function as a "Cadet Programs Officer" (referring to the CAPP 216) or as a Training Officer or other designated staff position.   From the encampment guide, counseling the students is not exclusive to the Encampment Chaplain(s).  From my personal experience at the 16 encampments I have staffed, the Chaplain is usually the "last resort" when the Training Officer or other Encampment staff have exhausted their resources. The Training Officer or other Encampment Staff member seeks our advise on how to handle a situation or when they feel they can't reach the student, looks to us for additional help in the situation.   On another note, I would not consider Training Officers at Encampment to be "Chaplain Substitutes" or "Chaplain-Lites" if they counsel students/cadets - Just sayin'   And isn't "counseling" sometimes a part of the mentoring process between any two individuals -- whether or not they are CAP members or members of the clergy????

As for the new ES Chaplain Support qualification not helping to stem the "chaplain-lite" problem: The new qualification is exactly what it is called - Chaplain Support.   The CDI will not obtain or ever qualify for the Mission Chaplain rating.
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THRAWN
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« Reply #54 on: December 09, 2016, 02:45:02 PM »

"Having a GES rating is required of all Chaplains to attain their Technician Rating in the PD program....the Mission Chaplain rating for the Senior Rating in PD.  Placing those requirements in the updated 221 was a means to help "motivate" more chaplains to get involved in ES...since it is part of CAP's mission. "

Does it require chaplains to take the Yeager as well? It is after all, one of the missions. Couldn't hurt...but then if we are going to require chaplains to be present in all three missions, why not extend that to all specialties. Hope this isn't throwing this discussion off track, but if it's good for one specialty, it should be good for all.
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Chappie
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« Reply #55 on: December 09, 2016, 03:08:43 PM »

Thawn...at one time attaining the Yeager was included in the Chaplain Training Track.  However it was removed when Professional Development made attaining the Yeager as a requirement for Level III a few years ago.  (Earned my Yeager in 2000).   Since 2007, Chaplains no longer participate in the "Special Recognition Program" that exempted them from the Professional Development program (when I joined advancing was simple:  you came in as a Technician...completing the 221 reading was in lieu of SLS/Level 2 and 221A was in lieu of CLC/Level 3...still needed to attend CCRSC <2 in five years since they are 20 hours in length> for Level 4 -- and breathing air for a length of time -- was all you needed to promote.   That was until a bunch of us "young Turks" -- at the time we were younger -- felt that Chaplains needed the same PD training as Senior Members and pushed to have the SPR jettisoned and all Chaplains participate in the Professional Development program.  Leading by example, I earned my GRW in 2001 -- one of 13 chaplains in the organization at that time to have earned the award.   Since 2007, there are usually 5-7 chaplains who attend NSC and earn the GRW.  I can go on about the number of Chaplains who attain the Davis, Loening, and Garber awards.   No longer do we have a Wing Chaplain or Lt Col who has only completed Level 1).

On a side note....part of the curriculum for a Chaplain Corps Region Staff College involves AE.   Most Region Chaplains/Directors of CCRSC would meet that segment of the curriculum with a base tour.  Wipe hands...done.   Back in the day (remember I am that "nice old guy" as Chaplains were referred to in a recent post - LOL) when I was a Region Chaplain...the Region (or Wing - depending on availability) AEO was part of my staff and conducted actual AE sessions/activities.  It was a blast!!! 
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Eclipse
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« Reply #56 on: December 09, 2016, 03:24:04 PM »

Having a GES rating is required of all Chaplains to attain their Technician Rating in the PD program....the Mission Chaplain rating for the Senior Rating in PD.  Placing those requirements in the updated 221 was a means to help "motivate" more chaplains to get involved in ES...since it is part of CAP's mission.  It does not need to be in the CAPR 265-1 as it is in the CAPP 221 -- and is needed to advance in CAP both in responsibility and grade.

And none of the above, nor CCRSC, nor Wing Conferences, nor online training is currently required to be, or remain a "CAP Chaplain",
and those who >are< Chaplains, are already deplorable deployable as augmentees absent any further training or requirements.

And that is what I see as part of the problem here - the USAF said "Our Chaplains have this training...the people CAP calls Chaplains, don't...fix it."

None of the above address the actual finding for the majority of CAP Chaplains who participate at the squadron aren't involved in ES, and have no interest
in progressing.

And to the progression point - 221 isn't the only rating a Chaplain could pursue for promotion, however in light of the fact that the majority
of Chaplains I've dealt with come in as Captains, coupled with the new progression requirements that will hold most members at Captain,
that sounds like an overestimation of the interest in progression as a means to forcing the training.

As of today, the average Chaplain who is already a Captain and not involved in ES has no requirement to complete any additional training,
nor fulfill the mandate of the USAF Finding.  If he does his 34's, even only to turn one in to indicate "no traffic, over", he can remain a Chaplain.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 03:45:32 PM by Eclipse » Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
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Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,440

« Reply #57 on: December 09, 2016, 03:36:07 PM »

Quote

...are already deplorable as augmentees...


Did you mean deployable?


[Edited to add, after posting...]

Sorry-read the message once before posting.

I guess he does mean, as stating "they are not ready..."




 
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 03:40:11 PM by Luis R. Ramos » Logged

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Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer
Eclipse
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Posts: 27,592

« Reply #58 on: December 09, 2016, 03:44:45 PM »

And I think it needs to be asked again how the existence of CDIs at all made things "better"?

How, overnight, did it make things "better" that former cadet members now senior, cadets parents who are also members,
many with decades of decorated service, not to mention the any number of professional counselors (as I have in my unit),
medical professionals, military officers and NCOs, teachers, and just plain members with hard-won CAP and life experience
were barred from facilitating ML CDI in favor of the random unit CC who may, or may not, have any relevent experience
with adolescents or the CP but was silly enough to take the job?

And while my LPSC, those 30-year members, cadet moms, and others all have to have TLC to even be considered as CDIs,
the CC only has to have "respiration and gravitational attraction in proper proportion" to facilitate those sessions, assuming he does.

I can tell you from personal experience, and also based on back-channel discussions prompted by this thread, that the lack
of people authorized to facilitate CDI is holding back cadets all over the organizaiton for months or more because no sessions
are being held - CC is too busy and no one else can do it.  Cadets are perishable in this regard, and I'm sure it has cost us retention,
yet NHQ seems to be unaware this is an issue.

Perhaps it is time to re-evaulate the "great experiment" and open CDI back up to a wider group of staff, or perhaps even better,
as part of the implementation of the CSS rating, create a new rating or qual of CP-CDI which is focused >only< on the CDI sessions
and / or counseling cadets in a secular fashion and leaving faith-based service to those so inclined without artificially limiting the
opportunities for those who aren't.

Side note: After reviewing 221, it is impossible to progress as a CDI without getting involved in support of the Chaplaincy
and in addition candidates have to research alternative faiths from their own.  I have had this issue cited to me several times
as a reason otherwise excellent CP staff have no interest in CDI.

Like it or not, there are an increasing number of people who feel faith and religion is a personal thing that stays at home.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 03:49:05 PM by Eclipse » Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
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Eclipse
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Posts: 27,592

« Reply #59 on: December 09, 2016, 03:45:49 PM »

Quote

...are already deplorable as augmentees...


Did you mean deployable?


[Edited to add, after posting...]

Sorry-read the message once before posting.

I guess he does mean, as stating "they are not ready..."

Heh - my Freudian Slip is showing...
Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Emergency Services & Operations  |  Topic: Chaplain Corps Emergency Services School
 


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