Promotion to 1st LT due to being a Medic

[chaser430]

If anyone has experience with promotions I would be all ears because my Commander seems very confused as to how to send it my packet even though I thought I included every Regulation and policy backing up my request. I have requested it through the proper 2A form and CAPR-35 regs.

My issue is I am due to be a 2LT on Sept 3rd- I know the Commander has to approve it but I feel like I am in quandary- I want to obviously wear my proper rank but I can't wear anything until its approved and I don't want to waste money on buying 2LT insignia to only have to rebuy 1st LT insignia some time later.
I just don't know what to do here?
Can someone please offer any suggestions? Thanks!

[Eclipse]

You don't wear grade until after it has been properly approved and indicated in eServices (the occasional pinning ceremony pending a click notwithstanding).

Outside of HMRS, there are no "medics" in CAP, there are Health Services Officers.   For 1st Lt you have to be an RN, PA, or other health care professional
with a bachelor's or master's degree.

Considering that the promotion has to be considered by the Wing HSO, and approved by the Wing CC, and also considering the current status of the Health Services
program nationally, this is not likely to be an expeditious process.

See CAPR 35-5, page 16: https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/R035_005_489E25C089E93.pdf
This would be one of the rare cases still left where "hardcopy"documents would be needed., sent to the Wing HSO unless otherwise directed by Wing OI.

[chaser430]

I do understand that I can't wear it until its approved- I do qualify as a health service officer because I work in the medical field and I have a bachelors degree.
Anything above the 1st LT has to go to Wing and National as where the 1st Lt and below can be approved by the Squadron Commander per CAPR-35-1.
I see specialty badges on Vanguard insignia -   

Civil Air Patrol Cloth Badge: Emergency Medical Technician Basic 
SKU: CAP0749B
$1.10

and the Ground team ones- just wondering if you can wear both once approved or do you just get to pick one? because it fits above your name tape and there's not a lot of room there.

[Eclipse]

Anything above the 1st LT has to go to Wing and National as where the 1st Lt and below can be approved by the Squadron Commander per CAPR-35-1.

1st Lt under a Health Services professional appointment has to be approved by the Wing HSO and the Wing CC. 
It is not within the Unit CC's authority.

See 35-5 Page 16.

[chaser430]

Gotcha thanks

[EMT-83]

It's not enough that you "qualify" for the promotion. Are you currently a Health Services Officer performing duties at the level expected of a first lieutenant?

[Alaric]

I do understand that I can't wear it until its approved- I do qualify as a health service officer because I work in the medical field and I have a bachelors degree.
Anything above the 1st LT has to go to Wing and National as where the 1st Lt and below can be approved by the Squadron Commander per CAPR-35-1.
I see specialty badges on Vanguard insignia -   

Civil Air Patrol Cloth Badge: Emergency Medical Technician Basic 
SKU: CAP0749B
$1.10

and the Ground team ones- just wondering if you can wear both once approved or do you just get to pick one? because it fits above your name tape and there's not a lot of room there.

Promotions for specialty skills are not approved at the Squadron Level for Health Services Personnel specifically see below from 35-5

c. Health Service Personnel. Upon successful completion of Level I, unit commanders may initiate a CAPF 2 on health service personnel recommending appointment to an appropriate grade, as outlined below. The member's qualifications will be evaluated by the wing health service program officer, who will provide his or her comments and recommendations to the wing commander prior to approval. (Specific qualifications for medical personnel are outlined in CAPR 160-1.)

[JeffDG]

You don't wear grade until after it has been properly approved and indicated in eServices (the occasional pinning ceremony pending a click notwithstanding).

I would disagree with that.

Once a promotion has been approved, indication in eServices is a ministerial process and not determinative of what grade you are permitted to wear.  I've seen more than on promotion approved by a wing commander end up in a black hole @ NHQ and never show in eServices, and contend that once the appropriate approving authority signs the CAPF 2A, that member is fully entitled to wear that grade, regardless of whether someone at NHQ has clicked a button or not.

[Eclipse]

The olde school days are gone.

In normal cases (duty promotions), it's not approved until the last click, and when the last click happens,
it's in eServices.

I suppose in the rare case like this, where skeuomorphic documents are passed between echelons,
there might be a delay between practical approval and eservices, but how would you know it had been approved then, anyway?

[JeffDG]

The olde school days are gone.

In normal cases (duty promotions), it's not approved until the last click, and when the last click happens,
it's in eServices.

I suppose in the rare case like this, where skeuomorphic documents are passed between echelons,
there might be a delay between practical approval and eservices, but how would you know it had been approved then, anyway?

The regulations disagree.  If the approving authority is the Wing Commander, then the Wing Commander's signature makes it effective.

We have one promotion that's been waiting for over a year to be clicked by NHQ.  NHQ has no discretion on the promotion, but nobody else has the button.

[Eclipse]

We have one promotion that's been waiting for over a year to be clicked by NHQ.  NHQ has no discretion on the promotion, but nobody else has the button.

That puts the member in the uncomfortable position of every report showing an incorrect grade.

If NHQ actually doesn't have authority in the matter, how is this not fixed with a phone call right now?

[JeffDG]

We have one promotion that's been waiting for over a year to be clicked by NHQ.  NHQ has no discretion on the promotion, but nobody else has the button.

That puts the member in the uncomfortable position of every report showing an incorrect grade.

If NHQ actually doesn't have authority in the matter, how is this not fixed with a phone call right now?

Good question, I've talked to NHQ, my DP has talked to them, the Wing/CC has talked to them.  Never seems to get clicked.

What promotions, by regulation, require NHQ approval?

[Eclipse]

What promotions, by regulation, require NHQ approval?

Generals (BOG), Cols (CSAG), Wing / Region Cols & Chief Master Sergeant (HEADCAP).

Capt for FM's has to be "reviewed for comment" by the NHQ CFO.

[jeders]

You don't wear grade until after it has been properly approved and indicated in eServices (the occasional pinning ceremony pending a click notwithstanding).

I would disagree with that.

Once a promotion has been approved, indication in eServices is a ministerial process and not determinative of what grade you are permitted to wear.  I've seen more than on promotion approved by a wing commander end up in a black hole @ NHQ and never show in eServices, and contend that once the appropriate approving authority signs the CAPF 2A, that member is fully entitled to wear that grade, regardless of whether someone at NHQ has clicked a button or not.

Disagree as you might, the regs say otherwise. Promotions must be validated by NHQ in order to be effective.

We have one promotion that's been waiting for over a year to be clicked by NHQ.  NHQ has no discretion on the promotion, but nobody else has the button.

That puts the member in the uncomfortable position of every report showing an incorrect grade.

If NHQ actually doesn't have authority in the matter, how is this not fixed with a phone call right now?

Good question, I've talked to NHQ, my DP has talked to them, the Wing/CC has talked to them.  Never seems to get clicked.

That just sucks. I'm surprised that it still hasn't been approved, yet somehow not entirely surprised.

[JeffDG]

You don't wear grade until after it has been properly approved and indicated in eServices (the occasional pinning ceremony pending a click notwithstanding).

I would disagree with that.

Once a promotion has been approved, indication in eServices is a ministerial process and not determinative of what grade you are permitted to wear.  I've seen more than on promotion approved by a wing commander end up in a black hole @ NHQ and never show in eServices, and contend that once the appropriate approving authority signs the CAPF 2A, that member is fully entitled to wear that grade, regardless of whether someone at NHQ has clicked a button or not.

Disagree as you might, the regs say otherwise. Promotions must be validated by NHQ in order to be effective.

Can you cite authority for that?

We have one promotion that's been waiting for over a year to be clicked by NHQ.  NHQ has no discretion on the promotion, but nobody else has the button.

That puts the member in the uncomfortable position of every report showing an incorrect grade.

If NHQ actually doesn't have authority in the matter, how is this not fixed with a phone call right now?

Good question, I've talked to NHQ, my DP has talked to them, the Wing/CC has talked to them.  Never seems to get clicked.

That just sucks. I'm surprised that it still hasn't been approved, yet somehow not entirely surprised.

Latest, they lost paperwork and won't accept the resubmitted paperwork because a license expired...while we were waiting for the original paperwork that we sent to be processed.

Again, as soon as Wing/CC singed, that member was a Major.  The fact NHQ hasn't caught up is not relevant to his grade.  NHQ is not the approving authority, the Wing/CC is in this case.

[MSG Mac]

You don't wear grade until after it has been properly approved and indicated in eServices (the occasional pinning ceremony pending a click notwithstanding).

I would disagree with that.

Once a promotion has been approved, indication in eServices is a ministerial process and not determinative of what grade you are permitted to wear.  I've seen more than on promotion approved by a wing commander end up in a black hole @ NHQ and never show in eServices, and contend that once the appropriate approving authority signs the CAPF 2A, that member is fully entitled to wear that grade, regardless of whether someone at NHQ has clicked a button or not.

Disagree as you might, the regs say otherwise. Promotions must be validated by NHQ in order to be effective.

Can you cite authority for that?

We have one promotion that's been waiting for over a year to be clicked by NHQ.  NHQ has no discretion on the promotion, but nobody else has the button.

That puts the member in the uncomfortable position of every report showing an incorrect grade.

If NHQ actually doesn't have authority in the matter, how is this not fixed with a phone call right now?

Good question, I've talked to NHQ, my DP has talked to them, the Wing/CC has talked to them.  Never seems to get clicked.

That just sucks. I'm surprised that it still hasn't been approved, yet somehow not entirely surprised.

Latest, they lost paperwork and won't accept the resubmitted paperwork because a license expired...while we were waiting for the original paperwork that we sent to be processed.

Again, as soon as Wing/CC singed, that member was a Major.  The fact NHQ hasn't caught up is not relevant to his grade.  NHQ is not the approving authority, the Wing/CC is in this case.

CAP 35-5 states "Upon validation by National HQ". The fact that the promotion in question was returned without action because of an expired certification, puts the onus on the unit and individual. If he/she recertified fine! If not they are not eligible for the promotion. You can always make them a 2Lt, pending the resubmital and certification.

[JeffDG]

You don't wear grade until after it has been properly approved and indicated in eServices (the occasional pinning ceremony pending a click notwithstanding).

I would disagree with that.

Once a promotion has been approved, indication in eServices is a ministerial process and not determinative of what grade you are permitted to wear.  I've seen more than on promotion approved by a wing commander end up in a black hole @ NHQ and never show in eServices, and contend that once the appropriate approving authority signs the CAPF 2A, that member is fully entitled to wear that grade, regardless of whether someone at NHQ has clicked a button or not.

Disagree as you might, the regs say otherwise. Promotions must be validated by NHQ in order to be effective.

Can you cite authority for that?

We have one promotion that's been waiting for over a year to be clicked by NHQ.  NHQ has no discretion on the promotion, but nobody else has the button.

That puts the member in the uncomfortable position of every report showing an incorrect grade.

If NHQ actually doesn't have authority in the matter, how is this not fixed with a phone call right now?

Good question, I've talked to NHQ, my DP has talked to them, the Wing/CC has talked to them.  Never seems to get clicked.

That just sucks. I'm surprised that it still hasn't been approved, yet somehow not entirely surprised.

Latest, they lost paperwork and won't accept the resubmitted paperwork because a license expired...while we were waiting for the original paperwork that we sent to be processed.

Again, as soon as Wing/CC singed, that member was a Major.  The fact NHQ hasn't caught up is not relevant to his grade.  NHQ is not the approving authority, the Wing/CC is in this case.

CAP 35-5 states "Upon validation by National HQ". The fact that the promotion in question was returned without action because of an expired certification, puts the onus on the unit and individual. If he/she recertified fine! If not they are not eligible for the promotion. You can always make them a 2Lt, pending the resubmital and certification.

Where does it say that?  Because my copy says:
"The promotion will be effective on the date the promotion request is validated by the final approving authority. "

Plus, NHQ sat on it for a year, said the license is expired, and instead of asking for a new license said we would have to resubmit a new package, with a new date, because they lost the paperwork.

[MSG Mac]

CAPR 35-5' Chapter 1 paragraph 8b.

Has the license been renewed? Why did it take your Chain of Command a year before following up with National?  Shoul have been chased after 30-60 days. Once you resubmit the Wing Commander can ask for an adjusted DOR based on National losing the paperwork.

[kwe1009]

CAPR 35-5' Chapter 1 paragraph 8b.

Has the license been renewed? Why did it take your Chain of Command a year before following up with National?  Shoul have been chased after 30-60 days. Once you resubmit the Wing Commander can ask for an adjusted DOR based on National losing the paperwork.

The final approving authority for the vast majority of promotion is not NHQ.  The quote from CAPR 35-5 1-8b is, "The promotion will be effective on the date the promotion request is validated by the final approving authority. Individuals not wishing to use the on-line duty performance promotion system may submit a CAPF 2 in sufficient copies to allow each approving echelon to retain a copy and to provide National Headquarters with one copy."

Chapter 1-5 lists the final promotion authority for each CAP grade. 

[Luis R. Ramos]

No one has said that NHQ is the "final promoting authority."

However people are quoting from 35-5 that NHQ has to "validate the promotion."

There is a difference.

Who prints ID cards? NHQ, not the Promoting Authority.

Who shows grades online? NHQ.