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Author Topic: Garmin Virb Camera Mounts  (Read 5722 times)
Eclipse
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« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2016, 10:09:50 PM »

There are those who 'write' policy ... and then there are those in the field that actually get the job done. Reminds me of the old expression: "No inspection-ready unit has ever passed combat."

Both equally nonsense.

I was even told not to shoot RAW which is my normal setting, nor to use my laptop with LightRoom, etc. to really make the images pop.


Relax Ansel.  The job isn't to make them "pop", the job is to make them accurate enough to decide if resources are necessary in the area and to assist with procuring funding in the area, etc.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 12:31:53 AM by SarDragon » Logged

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etodd
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« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2016, 10:26:19 PM »




... the job is to make them accurate enough to decide if resources are necessary in the area and to assist with procuring funding in the area, etc.

But still doesn't mean there is a little disappointment there. Just perform to the accepted level ... and not exceed it. Just be a cog in the machine. Don't think, leave that to the folks higher up the chain.

Yep. Got it. Accept it and moving right along. Actually makes it much easier now that I know where levels of performance are. I'll just enjoy flying and 'snapping' a few photos and stop thinking 'innovation'. 

.
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PHall
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« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2016, 10:45:36 PM »

Our job is to provide the customer with what they requested. It's what they're expecting to work with.
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etodd
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« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2016, 10:53:34 PM »

Our job is to provide the customer with what they requested. It's what they're expecting to work with.

As the SAR business dwindles away ... innovation could increase the customer base and solidify the current ones with new product possibilities.

But again .... I think in terms of real world business. This bureaucratic CAP/Gov't world is new to me. Yes, I should stop thinking such heresy and just enjoy flying airplanes and taking photos. Let others worry about such stuff.  ;)

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Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2016, 10:57:18 PM »

You want to innovate...

Be a provider within the program...

After a while become one of the leaders, then you can try innovation then...

 >:D
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etodd
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« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2016, 11:10:07 PM »

You want to innovate...

Be a provider within the program...

After a while become one of the leaders, then you can try innovation then...

 >:D


Leaders often have to tow the line and speak the policy or be quiet.   :-X   Its one of the reason innovation in gov't is so difficult. I've always enjoyed working the fringes where I have the freedom to speak my mind and keep pushing ideas.

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« Last Edit: September 11, 2016, 11:15:19 PM by etodd » Logged
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Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2016, 04:35:54 AM »

Ahh! But leaders have more freeway in introducing innovations to the membership they preside over. At my end, I cannot do any changes which is what you were trying to do. So at your end, you cannot introduce any changes in policy regarding using the mounts.

If you want that to happen, you will be more successful when and if you become a Wing or Region King than now.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 10:30:35 AM by Luis R. Ramos » Logged

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arajca
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« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2016, 10:13:36 AM »




... the job is to make them accurate enough to decide if resources are necessary in the area and to assist with procuring funding in the area, etc.

But still doesn't mean there is a little disappointment there. Just perform to the accepted level ... and not exceed it. Just be a cog in the machine. Don't think, leave that to the folks higher up the chain.

Yep. Got it. Accept it and moving right along. Actually makes it much easier now that I know where levels of performance are. I'll just enjoy flying and 'snapping' a few photos and stop thinking 'innovation'. 

.
One of the problems with someone going way above what is expected is it sets a new standard that not everyone can meet. What happens if the customer gets used to your pictures then gets a batch of the standard pictures? Can you provide training to everyone who takes/processes the pictures? Will those who are not professional photographers retain the knowledge and skills to consistently provide the higher than standard pictures? BTDT (different subject).
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etodd
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« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2016, 10:39:01 AM »


One of the problems with someone going way above what is expected is it sets a new standard that not everyone can meet. What happens if the customer gets used to your pictures then gets a batch of the standard pictures? Can you provide training to everyone who takes/processes the pictures? Will those who are not professional photographers retain the knowledge and skills to consistently provide the higher than standard pictures? BTDT (different subject).


A valid point. But is something Hdqs should ponder if aerial photography for FEMA and others of disasters and more is going to be an increasing part of the CAP purpose for being, as SAR dwindles away. If we want to keep those airplanes it seems to me we need to be finding ever increasing capabilities within ourselves and then go sell them to our customers. Waiting for customers to ask if we can do something and then trying to ramp up to the job is a little backwards, IMHO.

The Syracuse Mission is a unique one that will maybe last another 5 years, if that. But what can we learn from it? How can those skills and operations be applied to another type of mission we haven't done before that we could market to other agencies? Things to ponder.

The CAP Aerospace and Cadet programs can still continue for many years even if the airplanes disappear.

Maybe Hdqs 'does' have a 20 year plan of innovation and forward thinking tech ideas of what they think CAP will be providing to clients 20 years from now. If so, the Recruiting folks should be given the plans. It would help generate excitement of our future.

.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 10:42:09 AM by etodd » Logged
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Eclipse
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« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2016, 11:19:25 AM »

as SAR dwindles away.

"SAR" isn't "dwindling away"
.

Why do your posts have this hanging period?
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etodd
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« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2016, 11:53:43 AM »

"SAR" isn't "dwindling away"

Isn't it fewer each year? Isn't technology making it easier and quicker to find without CAP with the newer ELTs and folks with PLBs? More and more local agencies in many places with their own helicopters and more to search before CAP ever gets called? Some locations more than others so it'll be a geographic thing.

At whatever level of rate of change, I don't think SAR in 10-20 years will be often enough to justify this large fleet of airplanes.  I think Homeland Security, FEMA and others will by far be our largest customer base by then, with very few calls from AFRCC.

Quote
Why do your posts have this hanging period?

Not sure. Haven't seen them on all posts. Lets look and see if this one has it. You can keep a talley on which posts have it if it interest you that much.  ;)
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Spaceman3750
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« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2016, 03:59:42 PM »

"SAR" isn't "dwindling away"

Isn't it fewer each year? Isn't technology making it easier and quicker to find without CAP with the newer ELTs and folks with PLBs? More and more local agencies in many places with their own helicopters and more to search before CAP ever gets called? Some locations more than others so it'll be a geographic thing.

At whatever level of rate of change, I don't think SAR in 10-20 years will be often enough to justify this large fleet of airplanes.  I think Homeland Security, FEMA and others will by far be our largest customer base by then, with very few calls from AFRCC.

There are plenty of counties and states running searches every day of every year, plus aircraft still go missing. What we're in right now is a brave new world where the national-level mission of chasing false-alarm ELTs and wasting people's time in the middle of the night is dwindling (that being said, I got a non-distress find in the middle of the night on Labor Day weekend, so it's still there). That is why everyone is predicting doom.

This brave new world calls for two things:

1. Now that we have fewer false alarm ELTs, manpower and resources are more freed up to grow our support of FEMA, 1AF, and others on the national level.
2. Local, group, and wing ESOs should be working with the local/county/state agencies in their AOR to build relationships and learn how CAP can positively impact the incidents that these agencies manage. This is a very local thing, and may require tailoring how CAP does business in that area to the needs of the agencies involved. That's a lot of work, and is scary to a lot of members, who are used to a steady stream of ELTs from on-high to keep people busy.

Membership numbers not withstanding, from an organizational perspective we are more prepared now than we ever have been to make a significant impact in the lives of the taxpayers which support us. Through hard work and partnerships with not just national, but also state/local/county agencies, we can continue to grow our role in saving lives and preventing suffering in every county across the country. But someone has to be willing to make the first call and learn how to play in someone else's sandbox.

Like I said, brave new world.
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etodd
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« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2016, 05:20:15 PM »



1. Now that we have fewer false alarm ELTs, manpower and resources are more freed up to grow our support of FEMA, 1AF, and others on the national level.


Yep. Exactly what I and others have discussed in other threads. CAP's response to Hurricane Katrina, flooding in the Carolinas, wildfires in the west, the Syracuse mission and so many others are starting to really redefine CAPs role on the national stage. Innovation on our side to see how many new ways we can serve those agencies will go a long way toward solidifying our future. As you say perfectly "Brave New World".

If you've ever been a member of a small country church ... when some young kid mentions something new ... the old deacons have a phrase: "We ain't never done it that way before and don't see any reason to change it now!"  Either the innovative folks take charge and grow the church ... or the church slowly dies.

Myself .... I'm ready for the Brave New World.  :)
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Spaceman3750
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« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2016, 05:22:09 PM »



1. Now that we have fewer false alarm ELTs, manpower and resources are more freed up to grow our support of FEMA, 1AF, and others on the national level.


Yep. Exactly what I and others have discussed in other threads. CAP's response to Hurricane Katrina, flooding in the Carolinas, wildfires in the west, the Syracuse mission and so many others are starting to really redefine CAPs role on the national stage. Innovation on our side to see how many new ways we can serve those agencies will go a long way toward solidifying our future. As you say perfectly "Brave New World".

If you've ever been a member of a small country church ... when some young kid mentions something new ... the old deacons have a phrase: "We ain't never done it that way before and don't see any reason to change it now!"  Either the innovative folks take charge and grow the church ... or the church slowly dies.

Myself .... I'm ready for the Brave New World.  :)

I'm glad you agree with me, but you should really take the rest of my post to heart as well, not just what reinforces your point.

SAR isn't dead, it's just different than what we're used to doing.
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The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
etodd
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« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2016, 05:35:46 PM »


I'm glad you agree with me, but you should really take the rest of my post to heart as well, not just what reinforces your point.

SAR isn't dead, it's just different than what we're used to doing.

I didn't say it was dead. I said it was dwindling. Which yes, also may be too strong a word. But I still maintain that SAR isn't the big future of CAP. As I've said before ... give it 20 years, maybe less, and we may be moved out of the AF and into Homeland Security. (never say never.) Interesting times lay ahead.
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PHall
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« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2016, 08:40:56 PM »


I'm glad you agree with me, but you should really take the rest of my post to heart as well, not just what reinforces your point.

SAR isn't dead, it's just different than what we're used to doing.

I didn't say it was dead. I said it was dwindling. Which yes, also may be too strong a word. But I still maintain that SAR isn't the big future of CAP. As I've said before ... give it 20 years, maybe less, and we may be moved out of the AF and into Homeland Security. (never say never.) Interesting times lay ahead.

So how do you know it's dwindling? You said before that you're new to CAP. So what base of experience are you basing your opinion on?
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etodd
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« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2016, 09:06:14 PM »


So how do you know it's dwindling? You said before that you're new to CAP. So what base of experience are you basing your opinion on?

Reading past threads here. Conjecture and experiences from other members who have been around much longer in my area. Seeing new technology of the 406 ELTs and plbs come out. Etc.

But can I quote specific numbers of actual SAR missions CAP has performed each year over the last 20 to show whether its increasing or sliding? No. CAP hdqs must keep those figures under wraps for obvious reasons.  If you have any links with those specifics, I'd be happy to read them.

I'm just not seeing much talk anywhere of how Squadron X flew twice the number of actual SAR missions this year than last.  And ground team numbers that don't seem like they are up there either(?)
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Spaceman3750
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« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2016, 09:55:41 PM »

You could cull the AFRCC annual reports to get a broad idea. I'll bet you'll find that while the total number of missions has decreased, the number of CAP saves has remained relatively constant, due to a drop in non distress ELTs. You may even find an increase - AFRCC leverages the CAP cell forensics team extensively and credits a save when that data is used to rescue a person in distress.

So, to reiterate - are our total SAR missions down? Yes. Does that mean there's less SAR to be done? Absolutely not. It just means that the role of our local ESOs is now more critical than ever.

You may very well be right that SAR is not the future of CAP. But it's not for lack of work; its for lack of vision and manpower.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 10:02:20 PM by Spaceman3750 » Logged
The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
etodd
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« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2016, 10:13:48 PM »

You could cull the AFRCC annual reports to get a broad idea.


Check out page 16 on this one. The states are listed separately from NHQ CAP.  In every year NHQ has 60 or 70 saves on top of state Wings. Has does that happen?

http://www.1af.acc.af.mil/Portals/93/2015%20ANNUAL%20REPORT.pdf?ver=2016-04-27-151339-313
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Spaceman3750
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« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2016, 10:16:27 PM »

You could cull the AFRCC annual reports to get a broad idea.


Check out page 16 on this one. The states are listed separately from NHQ CAP.  In every year NHQ has 60 or 70 saves on top of state Wings. Has does that happen?

http://www.1af.acc.af.mil/Portals/93/2015%20ANNUAL%20REPORT.pdf?ver=2016-04-27-151339-313

I did check out that one, before I posted. Re-read my original post.

EDIT: to be fair, I didn't spell it out like I did in my first draft. NHQ saves are cell and radar forensics saves.
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The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Tools of the trade  |  Topic: Garmin Virb Camera Mounts
 


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