"E4 because I was in CAP?"

Started by Eclipse, July 01, 2016, 01:06:27 AM

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Eclipse

So at the meeting this week, a young lady came in looking for the commander.

She was about college age and talking really fast.

"Hi, they said to talk to you because they will give me E4 if I can show I was in CAP..."

Blink

"So do you have my records or something like an ID or whatever so I can show them?"

"Who are you?"

"Explain, explain...used to be a member here, doesn't know exactly how long ago, 'they' transferred me
because this one was closer, yada...so they will give me E4 if I can just show them I was a member."

"Did you get your Mitchell?"

"No."

"They are going to give you E4 without a Mitchell?"

"Yeah, it's like extra or something on top of my other stuff..."

Blink.

"Well, has it been longer then 5 years? Because if it has, your records would be gone, otherwise I can check around
in our destruct files, and also with your former squadron, maybe your records were never transferred...."

"Thank you."

So I gave her my business card, and directed her to send me her full name, email and phone, and I would check in the AM.

That was two days ago with no message.

Funny enough, I suppose, but more to my point and curiosity, is there a circumstance where a new Airman, Soldier or Sailor
could snag E4 on top of "all my other stuff" just by proving CAP membership below the Mitchell level?

We're hoping she is just misinformed and hasn't found a "salesman" at the recruiter.

"That Others May Zoom"

Майор Хаткевич

College can give E-4, IIRC, but not by tagging CAP on top.

thebeggerpie

From what I know, Mitchell gives E-3 in the USAF, E-2 in the Army and Marines(had some friends prove those two), and I have heard nothing about the Navy.

Jester

The army will give e-4 based on college. As far as I know the AF maxes out at e-3 for any real incentive outside of accelerated promotion to e-4 after finishing pararescue or combat controller pipelines.

Eclipse

Quote from: thebeggerpie on July 01, 2016, 02:22:26 AM
From what I know, Mitchell gives E-3 in the USAF, E-2 in the Army and Marines(had some friends prove those two), and I have heard nothing about the Navy.

From local cadets who have received it, I know they can get some advanced grade from the Navy.  I was under the impression the Marines gave no one
advanced anything.

"That Others May Zoom"

thebeggerpie

Quote from: Eclipse on July 01, 2016, 02:28:01 AM
Quote from: thebeggerpie on July 01, 2016, 02:22:26 AM
From what I know, Mitchell gives E-3 in the USAF, E-2 in the Army and Marines(had some friends prove those two), and I have heard nothing about the Navy.

From local cadets who have received it, I know they can get some advanced grade from the Navy.  I was under the impression the Marines gave no one
advanced anything.

Buddy of mine enlisted in the Marines last year and they gave him advanced grade of E-2 after he finished BMT because he had a Mitchell.

Spam

Four years ago (before the drawdown) I worked with a USN recruiter to produce necro-evidence for a young man who enlisted, and he got him E-3 without a Mitchell, but with some junior college.  Two years ago, we sent a Mitchell though Lackland and he came out E-4 and is now happily serving in Japan, which is more typical. We also have three at USAFA, a couple at other service academies, and a few ROTC types.


That earlier non-Mitchell was before our leadership decided to cut and run from Afghanistan and Iraq. Those incentives may no longer be there at the moment, but as we know, these tides ebb and flow, and we're headed for another war now, so... stay tuned kids.  Talk to those recruiters, and make them all buy you lunch at Red Lobster before signing with one!


V/R
Spam



SarDragon

There's advanced promotion at the end of boot camp for all sorts of things, including how well you do, possibly  based on things you learned in CAP. Happens all the time. That's much of what I'm seeing discussed above.

On the other hand, in my experience, advanced promotion based on college, or CAP, happens on entry, and you get paid for it from day one. That is generally to E-2 or E-3. I got E-2 in the Navy for college credit, and the Air Force offered me E-2 for my Mitchell. Training wise, you might not wear your advanced rank (I didn't until graduation), but the pay is there.

Sometimes, and I have no idea if this is current, advanced promotion above E-3 has been offered to folks with job experience in specific fields, at journeyman levels. I had enough experience in surveying to join the Seabees as an E-4, but told them I had no interest in ever doing that job again. Ever. Being an E-2 in aviation suited me just fine.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Mitchell 1969

Army JROTC used too (70's, don't know about now) award a completion certificate traceable for advanced pay grades in enlistment to the army. Three years = E-3, four years E-4. It made sense - three years of JROTC in the 40's-70's pretty much covered the basic training curriculum and JROTC was officially considered to be a recruitment avenue (they have since dropped that concept, it's now youth leadership oriented).

Better yet - between 1916 and about 1938 or so, high school diploma plus three years JROTC made a cadet eligible for a reserve commission upon turning 21.

On to CAP - I knew lots of Mitchell holders who received draft notices in the 60's, which pretty much meant two years in the Army or Navy. More than a few opened the envelope, out it down, grabbed their Mitchell and high-tailed it to USAF recruiter. Mitchell not only got E-3, it got them to the head of the line and skipped the waiting list. A LOT of Mitchell holders had very short exposures to Air Force basic training -pretty much just records review, testing, uniform issue and inoculations, then off to tech school. Different program emphasis - Mitchell was designed to replicate basic training then, especially with 14-day encampments - and basic was only 5-6 weeks anyway.

One more - I had a cadet enlist USAF in 1974, no Mitchell. He came to me as Sq Commander and said that the recruiter told him he could get E-3, asked me to call him. I did, explained snout Mitchell and that this cadet didn't have it. He read a section from
His instructions. Sure enough, we were telling cadets Mitchell = E-3, while USAF recruiting guidelines said "Mitchell Award OR letter from CAP unit commander." I write the letter (older cadet, two years in, but no encampment) and he got E-3.
_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.

jhighman

When I enlisted in the Army, they gave E3 for an Associates Degree and E4 for a Bachelors Degree. They gave us no choice about it in Basic Combat Training... We had to wear those stripes on day one. I kind of wish they hadn't because they ended up choosing a lot of people to be platoon leaders based on grade who had no business leading anything. This was back in '03 by the way.

jdh

Quote from: jhighman on July 01, 2016, 11:52:21 AM
When I enlisted in the Army, they gave E3 for an Associates Degree and E4 for a Bachelors Degree. They gave us no choice about it in Basic Combat Training... We had to wear those stripes on day one. I kind of wish they hadn't because they ended up choosing a lot of people to be platoon leaders based on grade who had no business leading anything. This was back in '03 by the way.

When I enlisted it was E-3 for 4 years JROTC, 3 years for Mitchell (E-4 if you had both like I did), E-4 for A.A., A. S., and you could get E-5 for certifications in certain fields if you entered that field in the Army. A Bacherlors got you E-5 with a slot in OCS after Basic.

Flying Pig

Quote from: thebeggerpie on July 01, 2016, 02:35:32 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on July 01, 2016, 02:28:01 AM
Quote from: thebeggerpie on July 01, 2016, 02:22:26 AM
From what I know, Mitchell gives E-3 in the USAF, E-2 in the Army and Marines(had some friends prove those two), and I have heard nothing about the Navy.

From local cadets who have received it, I know they can get some advanced grade from the Navy.  I was under the impression the Marines gave no one
advanced anything.

Buddy of mine enlisted in the Marines last year and they gave him advanced grade of E-2 after he finished BMT because he had a Mitchell.

The Marines dont recognize the Mitchell or ROTC.  If your buddy got E2 after boot camp, it had nothing to do with CAP.

THRAWN

Quote from: SarDragon on July 01, 2016, 07:41:45 AM
There's advanced promotion at the end of boot camp for all sorts of things, including how well you do, possibly  based on things you learned in CAP. Happens all the time. That's much of what I'm seeing discussed above.

On the other hand, in my experience, advanced promotion based on college, or CAP, happens on entry, and you get paid for it from day one. That is generally to E-2 or E-3. I got E-2 in the Navy for college credit, and the Air Force offered me E-2 for my Mitchell. Training wise, you might not wear your advanced rank (I didn't until graduation), but the pay is there.

Sometimes, and I have no idea if this is current, advanced promotion above E-3 has been offered to folks with job experience in specific fields, at journeyman levels. I had enough experience in surveying to join the Seabees as an E-4, but told them I had no interest in ever doing that job again. Ever. Being an E-2 in aviation suited me just fine.

Still true in certain circumstances. There are also reserve only programs that may get you advanced. I know the Coasties do this and the Naval Reserve may as well. Don't forget the band where you can start as an E-6...I should have learned to play the triangle...
Strup-"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
USMC CSCDEP 2023

winterg

I enlisted in the USAF as a Mitchel cadet with the guaranteed E-3 after BMT.  What I didn't know until I got to Lackland was that my Mitchel meant I was automatically placed in a program that would allow me to graduate BMT in 10 days if I could prove I knew my stuff. It was a pretty grueling 10 days and of the dozen I started with in my group, only myself and one other did it.  The rest were recycled to complete the entire 6 weeks.  By the time my flight caught up with me at Shepherd AFB for Tech School, I was already the Red Rope of the 3762 STUS.  Which I also got because of my Mitchel.  And about 20 months later I got a BTZ promotion to E-4 where my Mitchel came up.

There are plenty of ways I was rewarded for the work I put in for my Mitchell.

Transmitted via my R5 astromech.


Майор Хаткевич


winterg

1991. I believe the program was called Proficiency Advancement. They called us PA Candidates the whole time.  And not in a pleasant way! I believe the program was ended shortly after  I went through. 

Transmitted via my R5 astromech.


stillamarine

Quote from: Flying Pig on July 01, 2016, 12:19:16 PM
Quote from: thebeggerpie on July 01, 2016, 02:35:32 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on July 01, 2016, 02:28:01 AM
Quote from: thebeggerpie on July 01, 2016, 02:22:26 AM
From what I know, Mitchell gives E-3 in the USAF, E-2 in the Army and Marines(had some friends prove those two), and I have heard nothing about the Navy.

From local cadets who have received it, I know they can get some advanced grade from the Navy.  I was under the impression the Marines gave no one
advanced anything.

Buddy of mine enlisted in the Marines last year and they gave him advanced grade of E-2 after he finished BMT because he had a Mitchell.

The Marines dont recognize the Mitchell or ROTC.  If your buddy got E2 after boot camp, it had nothing to do with CAP.

Incorrect. I went in as an E2 with JROTC.
Tim Gardiner, 1st LT, CAP

USMC AD 1996-2001
USMCR    2001-2005  Admiral, Great State of Nebraska Navy  MS, MO, UDF
tim.gardiner@gmail.com

kwe1009

Quote from: Spam on July 01, 2016, 06:36:33 AM
Four years ago (before the drawdown) I worked with a USN recruiter to produce necro-evidence for a young man who enlisted, and he got him E-3 without a Mitchell, but with some junior college.  Two years ago, we sent a Mitchell though Lackland and he came out E-4 and is now happily serving in Japan, which is more typical. We also have three at USAFA, a couple at other service academies, and a few ROTC types.


That earlier non-Mitchell was before our leadership decided to cut and run from Afghanistan and Iraq. Those incentives may no longer be there at the moment, but as we know, these tides ebb and flow, and we're headed for another war now, so... stay tuned kids.  Talk to those recruiters, and make them all buy you lunch at Red Lobster before signing with one!


V/R
Spam

Just curious, how did your Mitchell cadet get E-4 our of BMT?  I have never heard of any USAF program that gave E-4 out of BMT.  Even people with 4-year degrees only get E-3 if they go the enlisted route (I have known a couple, couldn't score well enough on the AFOQT).

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: kwe1009 on July 01, 2016, 02:00:07 PM
Quote from: Spam on July 01, 2016, 06:36:33 AM
Four years ago (before the drawdown) I worked with a USN recruiter to produce necro-evidence for a young man who enlisted, and he got him E-3 without a Mitchell, but with some junior college.  Two years ago, we sent a Mitchell though Lackland and he came out E-4 and is now happily serving in Japan, which is more typical. We also have three at USAFA, a couple at other service academies, and a few ROTC types.


That earlier non-Mitchell was before our leadership decided to cut and run from Afghanistan and Iraq. Those incentives may no longer be there at the moment, but as we know, these tides ebb and flow, and we're headed for another war now, so... stay tuned kids.  Talk to those recruiters, and make them all buy you lunch at Red Lobster before signing with one!


V/R
Spam

Just curious, how did your Mitchell cadet get E-4 our of BMT?  I have never heard of any USAF program that gave E-4 out of BMT.  Even people with 4-year degrees only get E-3 if they go the enlisted route (I have known a couple, couldn't score well enough on the AFOQT).


If it was at the peak of Iraq, I'm guessing extra incentives for certain skills/slots?

Mitchell 1969

#19
Quote from: Капитан Хаткевич on July 01, 2016, 02:21:34 PM
Quote from: kwe1009 on July 01, 2016, 02:00:07 PM
Quote from: Spam on July 01, 2016, 06:36:33 AM
Four years ago (before the drawdown) I worked with a USN recruiter to produce necro-evidence for a young man who enlisted, and he got him E-3 without a Mitchell, but with some junior college.  Two years ago, we sent a Mitchell though Lackland and he came out E-4 and is now happily serving in Japan, which is more typical. We also have three at USAFA, a couple at other service academies, and a few ROTC types.


That earlier non-Mitchell was before our leadership decided to cut and run from Afghanistan and Iraq. Those incentives may no longer be there at the moment, but as we know, these tides ebb and flow, and we're headed for another war now, so... stay tuned kids.  Talk to those recruiters, and make them all buy you lunch at Red Lobster before signing with one!


V/R
Spam

Just curious, how did your Mitchell cadet get E-4 our of BMT?  I have never heard of any USAF program that gave E-4 out of BMT.  Even people with 4-year degrees only get E-3 if they go the enlisted route (I have known a couple, couldn't score well enough on the AFOQT).


If it was at the peak of Iraq, I'm guessing extra incentives for certain skills/slots?

These programs come and go all the time, and have been doing do for decades. Different names, different qualifications, to serve different needs. What one guy got 20 years ago might not be the same as what another guy got 20 years and 2 months ago. And then you have people guessing as to who got what for why.

I knew a guy who got E-3 in the Army with people convinced it was because he was former ROK army officer. Wrong. There weren't any provisions for that. He got E-3 because he had a bachelors. Meanwhile, I knew some guys whom I thought got E-4 for JROTC who were totally clueless about how to shine shoes or the difference between Staff Sergeant and Sergeant First Class. "Nah, man, I never even SAW a uniform until they have me one - I got E-4 through "Stripes For Skills." (Which made it unfortunate, indeed, that the army required them to wear the (then) Spec 4 insignia - they were always being appointed as ad hoc "Specialist, you're in charge of this detail" for police calls, KP, etc and had no idea how to run other people.

Service; active or NG; era; program; MOS/AFSC; delayed entry; "bring your pals";  length of enlistment; JROTC/CAP; education; skills- it truly was, and, I suppose, still is, a YMMV thing. I'd never say "No, that NEVER happened!" because, as sure as I'm sitting here, the Navy might have had, during a two-week period in April of 1971, some kind of program for giving instant E-6 to qualified termite inspectors who were also Eagle Scouts or some other seemingly fantastic deal.
_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.