Transgender Policy

[Brit_in_CAP]

Time will tell. Hope I'm proven wrong, that we fence the discussion to ensuring we protect and accommodate all cadets as much as possible, but that we stay OUT of discussing sex and gender with our cadets, leaving that to parents alone.

I think we agree on far more than we disagree in this area, and I think we will probably find that even our areas of apparent disagreement are more likely semantic differences in some of the nuances of this difficult area.  For instance, the discussions to date (and scheduled for August) are indeed intensely focused on protecting and accommodating cadets and not on promoting any ideas or agendas. 

Let me start by reassuring you and others that CAP wholeheartedly agrees that the difficult task of raising children is the responsibility of the parents and other family members.  And this particularly true in this sensitive area. 

But I suspect that you would agree that CAP has a role in helping parents produce successful young adults.  (Alongside other organizations that parents and society trust to help guide young folks to success like churches, schools, organized sports, etc.)  Indeed, helping parents produce successful "former cadets" is sort of the whole point of the Cadet Program - our very reason for existence.  In my heart I know that is the precise reason that CP volunteer professionals like yourself and countless others volunteer your time and treasure.

However, I think it may go too far to suggest that CAP should never address certain issues that confront young people - particularly issues that challenge both young people and adults.

We have a character development program for a reason - to help prepare our cadets to be outstanding leaders and valued members of the community.  It would be easy to say "we should never address the delicate subject of 'X' - that should be reserved exclusively to parents."  It sure would make running a squadron easier.

But we do take on difficult topics in a sensitive age-appropriate manner in our CD program.  We talk about things as simple as using respect, pranks, hazing, and good manners, but also more challenging topics like drug use, self-esteem, being protective and inclusive for members with a disability, self-harm, privacy on-line, and having the courage to say "no."  (See the latest volume of Values for Living, CAPP 265-2.)

Any/all of those topics are - by definition - the primary responsibility of the parents, but CAP has a role to play in supporting the parents through our CD program.

But in a larger sense, any CAP "Transgendered Policy" will be not be a single lesson plan in the next volume of Values of Living, but an important part of a broader policy aimed squarely at being welcoming and inclusive for the entire membership. 

Clearly this is a difficult and controversial subject for many Americans, and reasonable people often can hold conflicting views on what CAP's policy should be, or even whether CAP needs to have a policy in the first place.

But I'm hoping that the great majority of CAP members can agree that CAP should be a welcoming and wholesome environment for everyone that qualifies for membership.  And that's what we'll be talking about at the seminar in August.  Making our successful CP work for all of our cadets.

Will I see you in August?

Ned Lee
Col, CAP
National Cadet Program Manager

Well stated.  Character Development does touch on tricky issues and, while you can choose your timing, you can't avoid them totally.  That is part of the CP mission, we're trying to help provide cadets with the skills for being successful 'former cadets' no matter what path they choose in life.  That said...good luck at the conference, because I do sense turbulent air ahead!

[Майор Хаткевич]

Being a former cadet...I can truly say it made me different from my peers. Truly don't know what I'd be like if I wasn't in CAP through out my teens.

[Robb Ottenhoff]

Catching up on the replies over the last few days (was taking an off-line vacation over the weekend)   

I will admit that I didn't know what I might be walking back into when I started reading today... and I was moved to see both the personal acknowledgement and the tone of the discussion remaining positive and constructive.  If the general public approaches these conversations with as much integrity as we are here, then this will be something that elevates us as a nation.

As the Chief of the CAP Chaplain Corps - Ch, Col Jay Hughes -- is prone to say, "Every decision is a Core Values decision".

I will be stealing this, with proper credit to Chaplain Hughes, and working it into my conversations every chance I get.

Yet... we're neither the military nor are we a paid employer, but rather a volunteer group standing in loco parentis of minors in the middle of their teen developmental years, responsible to our parent customers first, of all possible earthly customers.

I couldn't agree more.  I strongly believe parents are CAP's first customer, even before the AF (mostly because I'm a CP guy).  But then I go further... and say that cadets are the second customer.  Before I make any tough decision, I think about what will be in the best interest of the cadet(s).  Sometimes that answer conflicts with my own pride or ego, and then I have to deal with that, but if not for the cadets, then who?  Service before self is wider than we think... 

Sexual orientation is not a reason to deny membership and hasn't been for a long time if it ever was.

I don't think that membership was ever official denied because of a persons sexual orientation, but in my experience there wasn't acceptance for an openly LGBT person when I was a CAP senior member (1988 - 1990) and I imagine that continued to be the case thought–out Don't Ask, Don't Tell.  I will, however, take responsibly for dropping out of CAP in 1990, because I wasn't pushed out or anything like that.  I think I just saw it as too hard to deal with all the hidden judgments and opinions -- which isn't a surprise for a 23 year old.  Now I eat "hidden judgments and opinions" for lunch!

Will I see you in August?

I'm taking Ned's inquiry as an open invitation to all of us. I wasn't planning on going (conferences have always seemed to lack compelling value for the time/cost required to attend) but now I can't see how I don't go.  If we are to find a way forward, together, then I owe it to myself, my cadets, my peers (okay, everyone) to work it out to attend and participate.


Finally, thank you.  Each of you.  This thread has been a cathartic experience for me.  I look forward to meeting you all in TN in August (or maybe even sooner at NBB in July).

-r

[Ned]

Will I see you in August?

I'm taking Ned's inquiry as an open invitation to all of us.

That's absolutely true.  Please come and engage.

I've been lucky enough to speak at the last several Conference's worth of Learning Labs, and nothing worries me more than designing a new Learning Lab and then not having anyone show up except for the five folks who really wanted to go to a particular OPS lab, but it was full.   

[RNOfficer]

sexual touching, or non-contact sexual acts such as exposure or voyeurism.



So, on the other issue which you've mentioned (overnight billeting), there's no linkage whatsoever that I can see to this letter. CAP has a policy to protect cadets and reduce liability and we are executing to it, and its been discussed to death.  Nothing new here.

1. Check those legal IDs on recruitment as required to validate ALL new member applications,
2. Sign those encampment applications after reviewing for accuracy,
3. Require supporting legal documentation if there's any change, and finally
4. Billet cadets by their legal sex of record and supervise them to prevent abuse IAW the above cited paragraph, regardless of their request or subjective feelings.


V/R
Spam

" Billet cadets by their legal sex of record and supervise them to prevent abuse IAW the above cited paragraph, regardless of their request or subjective feeling"

States are begining to permit individuals to change their birth certificates to their gender of choice so THAT will be their legal sex of record.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2016/05/18/the-next-frontier-bathroom-law-debate-changing-birth-certificates/JOQTFrymQbuTI0kp1eC21I/story.html?s_campaign=email_BG_TodaysHeadline&s_campaign=

[DoubleSecret]

So...barring some directive from the government, we have our own rules, that we must and will follow?

Except when we don't.

[Storm Chaser]

That can be problematic, especially when sharing facilities such as gym lockers, open showers, etc. The legal gender on a piece of paper will not change the physical appearance that everyone will see when changing or showering.

How many parents will feel comfortable letting their daughters billet with a physical male (meaning pre-operation) just because he changed his legal gender to female. What about the transgender who if still physically female? Do we want to billet her with other male teenagers because she identifies as male?

I don't want to sound insensitive, but this is a complex issue that goes beyond legal gender, especially if the government starts allowing the legal change without the corresponding operation to change the physical appearance.

[LSThiker]

especially if the government starts allowing the legal change without the corresponding operation to change the physical appearance.

There is no if.  State Governments, such as California, Texas, New York, etc, already recognize changes to the gender without sex reassignment surgery as long as there is an affidavit of other clinical treatment by a licensed physician or surgeon.  The Federal Government does not require a sex reassignment surgery for recognition of transgender in its employment practices as well.

There are, of course, some states that do not yet, such as Alabama, Arkansas, Hawaii, etc. 

[RNOfficer]

Worth noting that the proportion of teenagers who identify themselves as transgender is small, about 1.5% in not so great surveys done in Boston and Madison, Wisconsin schools. There is no national data, but I suspect that Boston and Madison are rather more liberal than most parts of the country.

Some believe these numbers are overstated:

"And they are, after all, teenagers. "You end up with adolescents who don't read the question carefully, or who will check 'D' for everything, or will choose what they think is a humorous-response option," said Kerith Conron, a social and psychiatric epidemiologist at the Fenway Institute in Boston, which develops health programs for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people, among others."

Others claim reported because of stigma

Argued that: although numbers small; impact is high

Those who work with transgender students say that school accommodations will affect few students. But the effect for transgender students, they say, is powerful. Many studies have shown that transgender students are a particularly vulnerable group. They are disproportionately affected by bullying and have higher rates of suicide than the population at large.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/18/science/transgender-children.html

[Chappie]

<SNIP>

But I'm hoping that the great majority of CAP members can agree that CAP should be a welcoming and wholesome environment for everyone that qualifies for membership.  And that's what we'll be talking about at the seminar in August.  Making our successful CP work for all of our cadets.

Will I see you in August?

Ned Lee
Col, CAP
National Cadet Program Manager

The seminar/workshop is entitled: "Be An Ally: Supporting LGBT Cadets"
Date:  Saturday, August 13
Time: 1400-1500  (2:00pm - 3:00 pm)
Location: Hermitage D
   

[Storm Chaser]

I think we need to support ALL of our cadets regardless of gender. Not to be disrespectful or insensitive, but is their gender identity really relevant to CAP? I'm not sure it is. When wearing the CAP uniform, they are CADETS. Now, I understand some of the specific challenges transgender cadets may face, but if that needs to be addressed, it should be through policy, not a workshop.

[Chappie]

Here is the description of the workshop:

CP06  Be an Ally: Supporting LGBT Cadets
  Saturday, 13 Aug, 1400 - 1500, Hermitage D

Presenters: Ms. Eva Walton Kendrick, Human Rights Campaign
  Curt LaFond, National Cadet Team
  Col Ned Lee, National Cadet Team

All across America, social dynamics are changing and we're seeing an increasing number of openly lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender cadets. Yet many adult volunteers lack experience mentoring LGBT youth and have questions on practical matters affecting their full inclusion. This session is an opportunity to ask questions, learn about best practices, and become a more effective ally for all cadets, especially LGBT cadets.

[Chappie]

Sure, but has any one in CAP suggested that we discuss sex or gender with cadets in CAP?  Would this have been a CDI discussion? After all, asking what the gender of a person when they join is hardly a discussion of sex or gender.

<SNIP>

I have had (over 30 something years) the occasional Chaplain who felt it was a deep seated "need" and within his duty responsibility to administer a sermon within a Moral Leadership/Character Development session, to the extent where they spent an hour preaching their religious beliefs. I've also had (twice) a Chaplain/CDI (one each) who felt it his duty to hold a session preaching the "evils of homosexuality" to cadets. I've stopped these practices immediately on discovery, back briefed all hands on our EEO policy, and privately counseled the Chaplains/CDI on our policy to use the approved "Values for Living" curriculum and not to freelance with pushing their privately held beliefs on our adolescents, using the "bully pulpit" of leadership.

<SNIP>


CAP is not the venue for preaching to developing adolescents in our trust - either to tell cadets about what they need to do for their immortal souls to keep from burning, or that's it OK to mutilate their genitals to match their developing self identities. Both are parental issues, not ours. Live and let live, preserve equal access and move on to execute the mission.

<SNIP>

V/R
Spam

Spam....sorry that I missed this post from a few weeks ago.   

First of all, it pains me to hear that members of the Chaplain Corps -- at times -- step out of the lane that they are supposed to be in when it comes to facilitating a Character Development session. 

Secondly, I applaud you for holding them accountable and pointing out what the regs/CAP policy require of them.

[Spam]

You bet, sir. By and large, over three decades, it has been the rare exception that I've seen a member (esp. a Chaplain) do this.


I have to say, giving equal time here, I'm just as concerned that this pending guest speaker will impact our program by introducing concepts of how CAP leaders should "mentor" these types of cadets.

I went to her organizations website, and, reading through their rather strident activist literature, I find that they push educators and youth workers to encourage minor students in their disability and deviancy, even to the point where one of their published guides advocates concealing such encouragement from the students parents.

If that's "mentoring", we need none of it.  It is equally as inappropriate for us as pushy religious canvassing or partisan political harangues in uniform. We need to limit these proselytizing fishing trips, and merely ensure that our cadets of all disabilities, faiths (and no faiths), genders and ethnicities are given equal access to CAP programs - but that we don't sanction or "mentor" behaviors behind parents backs as a departure from our policy of transparency.


Chaser has the right of it. Equal access for all - hands off with the counseling and mentoring on topics like this.


V/R
Spam

[Chappie]

I hear ya'...and I know where you are coming from.  But based on my personal and professional knowledge of Col Ned Lee -- as well as Curt LeFond -- I don't believe that this one hour workshop will be a "fishing expedition" or a proselytizing event.  These individuals have a passion for cadet programs -- and I don't believe that they are giving "equal time" to this speaker.   I trust that she will be a resource assisting in "best practices", answering questions...Keeping within the description of the workshop.

As a CAP Chaplain, I am entrusted with the responsibility to serve ALL members of CAP.   This has made me to move outside my "comfort" zone and I have had to learn more on other faith group practices, special needs (behavioral/physical), resiliency issues, and the list can go on.  This is an area that I am not familiar with...and if a workshop offered to assist me to better serve our members...cadets (and seniors alike), it is something that I am interested in attending. 

I do "mentor" cadets...that falls within the purview of a member of the Chaplain Corps.  I certainly don't want to be one of those chaplains who spend the time CD time preaching on "the evils of homosexuality" but would welcome receiving information or resources on how to be able to better serve a LGBT cadet.

[Flying Pig]

So now CAP brings in activists to teach members how to accept certain types of cadets?  "Let me point out all the ways Im different so I can be the same."  Lay out the rules, and follow them.   There is a guy wearing a female uniform running around my state, and everyone just goes about their business.  Establish guidelines for cadet activities... how does a male cadet, who thinks hes a female cadet take a shower, what bathroom does he/she use, etc.  Many of you are very excited about all of this its pretty obvious.  Many are not.  Myself included.  But Im smart enough to not be a jerk or treat anyone in a manner that is unprofessional.  If you think some class taught by an activist is going to bring me to the point of accepting it beyond a mental health issue, that will not happen.  CAP has always had gay cadets.  I was a cadet with gay cadets, been in the military with guys who everyone knew was gay and of course have worked in LE with gay people, I have family members who are gay and we all get along.  The concept of transgender cadets in CAP and how to accommodate them is something that needs to be established in policy.  Once that is established, you treat them accordingly.  Gender Dysphoria is classified as a mental health issue.  You wont find a rational person anywhere who doesn't believe that its a mental health issue.  That doesn't mean you are dangerous or unable to live life.  But so are many other issues people deal with.  You would be better off and have better credibility having a psychologist teach your seminar than a gay rights/religious activist with a degree in "Southern History".  Lay out the policies, and people can choose to comply or move on from CAP.  The person you have decided to bring in is a salesperson.   

[THRAWN]

I just did a search of the term "transgender" on the boards and it looks like the earliest discussion on the subject is from 2007. That's 9 years. I'm pretty sure that is long enough to come up with a balanced policy to address the matter. And without bringing a snakeoil selling SJW into the mix. FlyingPig made some good points.

So, the question is, why has national been unable or unwilling to develop and field a coherent policy on this matter for the past decade?

[Storm Chaser]

I certainly don't want to be one of those chaplains who spend the time CD time preaching on "the evils of homosexuality" but would welcome receiving information or resources on how to be able to better serve a LGBT cadet.

It is wrong for any member to preach about "the evils of homosexuality", just like it is also wrong to preach about supporting LGBT views. It just doesn't have a place in CAP.

Cadets are cadets and should be treated as such regardless of gender, gender preference, or gender identity. Again, I'm not trying to be offensive or incentive, but I just don't see how this helps CAP.

I'm supportive of all of our cadets and senior members. My personal views are irrelevant when it comes to things like this. But I'm deeply concerned about a CAP workshop entitled "Be an Ally: Supporting LGBT Cadets". Are we also having another workshop for those who disagree with the views being discussed on that workshop? Probably not.

We all need to exercise our core value of respect without furthering any agendas one way or another. I respect Col Ned Lee and Curt LeFond. I know how deeply they care about CAP and the Cadet Programs. But I still don't think this workshop is prudent. I think we need to continue promoting our core values and leave all other considerations out. They just don't have a place in CAP.

[dwb]

I think we need to support ALL of our cadets regardless of gender.

To be clear, no one is suggesting otherwise. This is a very common response to identity-related awareness efforts (e.g., "all lives matter"). I understand the sentiment, but would also suggest that maybe LGBT cadets see the world through a different lens.

If you are part of a cultural subgroup that has traditionally been marginalized, and now society is pushing to mainstream the existence of that subgroup, there is bound to be friction. There's a continuum -- exclusion, closeted participation, open secret, begrudging acceptance, all the way to "normal and totally a non-issue". We're not at that last phase yet. When we are, then yes, we will support all of our cadets and there will be no need to call it out.

I'd say today, we're at that last phase with female cadets. But we weren't always. We have female senior members participating today who were not allowed to do things as cadets because they were female. And I bet as gender integration was becoming a thing 30 years ago, people used the same arguments then to suppress the discussion that are being used today vis-a-vis LGBT cadets.

I'd like to think we're also at the "totally a non-issue" phase today with race and ethnicity as well. We're probably still not there with religion, when the religion in question is Islam.

So yes, the ideal is we support all of our cadets, and they all receive equal treatment under our regulations and bylaws, and their gender, race, creed, sexual orientation, etc. are totally not an issue to participation in any way. But I don't believe that's actually 100% true yet, and until it is, it's not inappropriate to have a workshop at the national conference that helps to move us, as an organization, along my aforementioned integration continuum.

[vorteks]

I think we need to support ALL of our cadets regardless of gender.

To be clear, no one is suggesting otherwise. This is a very common response to identity-related awareness efforts (e.g., "all lives matter"). I understand the sentiment, but would also suggest that maybe LGBT cadets see the world through a different lens.

If you are part of a cultural subgroup that has traditionally been marginalized, and now society is pushing to mainstream the existence of that subgroup, there is bound to be friction. There's a continuum -- exclusion, closeted participation, open secret, begrudging acceptance, all the way to "normal and totally a non-issue". We're not at that last phase yet. When we are, then yes, we will support all of our cadets and there will be no need to call it out.

I'd say today, we're at that last phase with female cadets. But we weren't always. We have female senior members participating today who were not allowed to do things as cadets because they were female. And I bet as gender integration was becoming a thing 30 years ago, people used the same arguments then to suppress the discussion that are being used today vis-a-vis LGBT cadets.

I'd like to think we're also at the "totally a non-issue" phase today with race and ethnicity as well. We're probably still not there with religion, when the religion in question is Islam.

So yes, the ideal is we support all of our cadets, and they all receive equal treatment under our regulations and bylaws, and their gender, race, creed, sexual orientation, etc. are totally not an issue to participation in any way. But I don't believe that's actually 100% true yet, and until it is, it's not inappropriate to have a workshop at the national conference that helps to move us, as an organization, along my aforementioned integration continuum.

Though I know the activists want to frame it this way, I reject the idea that the issue being discussed here, which involves individual choices and behaviors, is on par with the struggles of women and minorities in history.