Col Mary Feik Scholarship only for females?

[xray328]

Thank you both

[Holding Pattern]

Let's open it up to SMs while we are at it.

Why? It's a cadet scholarship.

It's also a female scholarship. Are you saying we can't correct for just gender, but age is a bridge too far?

There are (maybe were) scholarships of this type for SMs. If this is a female scholarship, where is the male scholarship? Or black scholarship? Or Polish scholarship? Having a cadet only scholarship is not exclusionary. Having a female scholarship is.

There are scholarships for everyone. It just so happens that the one being discussed here is just for females. There is nothing preventing you or anyone else from scraping together money to help other underrepresented groups increase diversity in flight. Because that is the point, to increase diversity in flight.

[SarDragon]

I've been to several HS graduations over the years, and have seen many targeted scholarships given out, primarily for students pursuing degrees in specific programs - journalism, STEM, medicine, you name it. I also belong to another organization with a scholarship program that also uses similar criteria. Some are even based on where you live.

AFAIK, there are no rules or laws preventing a donor from targeting his donation.

[Nuke52]

...
If this is a female scholarship, where is the male scholarship? Or black scholarship? Or Polish scholarship? Having a cadet only scholarship is not exclusionary. Having a female scholarship is.

Careful THRAWN...  Saying things like that out loud is bound to draw the ire of the lefty crowd and get you kicked out of PC-Unicorns-and-Rainbows Land...

[Ned]

It's certainly an interesting issue.  I hope that this discussion generates interest and that a lot of our cadets apply for this terrific opportunity for flight training.

There is no stronger advocate for gender equality in CP than I.  And I have been fighting this battle (among others) for decades as  we improve the CP.

That said, CAP has a long and colorful history of gender differences.  WIWAC, we actually had region and national special activities  entitled "Stewardess Orientation Course."  I was not eligible to apply based solely on my gender.    

Of course, we also had Jet Orientation Course where cadets were actually able to fly in then-current jet trainers.  Male cadets only, however.  Female cadets had to be content with the "Jet Age Orientation Course," which had no flying, but a lot of career orientation.

Similarly, IACE historically has distinguished between male and female cadets (and escorts) depending on the requirements of the host country.  The female slots were always more competitive.

I suspect we all realize that this is now the 21st Century and all, and most of that is behind us.  But in this case, a donor wanted to create a flight scholarship in honor of Mary Feik, and given how under represented women are as cadets and pilots, restricted the funds to female cadets only.  Restated, these are not appropriated funds or corporate funds, but a purely private donation by an incredibly generous person.

I suppose we could have refused the money and left our cadets with that much less opportunity for flight training.  I suspect some of you feel we should have.  Perhaps those of you who feel that way would like to match the gift so we can make additional training available to male cadets (who already get something like 80% of the flight scholarship money.)

Please send your generous donations to:

Dr. James E. Dotherow
Director of Development
Phone: 334-953-7748, Ext. 225
Fax: 334-953-5296
Email: jdotherow@capnhq.gov

105 S Hansell Street Bldg. 714
Maxwell, AFB, AL 36112-6332



Or go directly to our development landing page and make a Paypal donation.

I look forward to your help in providing additional flight training scholarships to our cadets.


Ned Lee
National Cadet Programs Manager

[Spam]

This is an interesting topic. The intent of the scholarship is praiseworthy in that it addresses a historically imbalanced training segment, yet... this isn't allowed under current policy. I'd frankly not noticed that scholarship provision before, and to me, it pretty clearly violates the EEO intent of CAPR 36-1.  CAP is administering a benefit that upon review is openly and clearly discriminatory against male cadets, when we clearly are forbidden to do so for, quote, "any CAP program or activity" per R36-1:


http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/R036_001_D6D80CB431788.pdf
CAPR 36-1 13 DECEMBER 2012
NATIONAL HEADQUARTERS CIVIL AIR PATROL
CAP REGULATION 36-1
13 DECEMBER 2012
Nondiscrimination
CIVIL AIR PATROL NONDISCRIMINATION PROGRAM
2. Civil Air Patrol Policy of Nondiscrimination. It is Civil Air Patrol policy that no member
shall be excluded from participation in, denied the benefits of, or subjected to discrimination in
any CAP program or activity on the basis of race, sex, age, color, religion, national origin, or
disability (formerly handicap).


http://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/library/scholarships/flight-scholarships/
"COL MARY FEIK CADET FLIGHT SCHOLARSHIP
Due To the generosity of our CAP membership, CAP is able to offer flight scholarships to help cadets attain a private pilot's license.   
Special Eligibility Requirements
1. Must be a current FEMALE CAP cadet".


This discriminatory stipulation was not posted in the original announcement last year, so I wonder why it was only added this year:
http://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/?introducing_the_col_mary_feik_cadet_flight_scholarship&show=entry&blogID=1438


Regardless of the intent to target funds to a specific group, legally this violates policy. Would CAP accepted scholarship money to the links listed if it were privately offered but tied to a provision that only white cadets were allowed to apply, and named the "White Cadet Flight Training Fund"? Probably not. Equally, a "FEMALE" only provision is clearly in contravention of our policy, regardless of a desire to target females for flight training.


By my reading of this clearly stated policy of record, no, CAP should not ever accepted funds. regardless of the source, with such stipulations if we want to maintain our integrity. I do hope that NHQ will be contacting the sponsors to discuss a change, as we move to put ALL sex related discrimination behind us on the dustbin of history, and select applicants based on their abilities and on the content of their character, as Dr. King aptly phrased it.


V/R,
Spam

[jdh]

What's the ratio of male to female cadets that are eligible to apply? When I was in glider/power I can only remember 2 or 3 females in our class...not sure if that's because of financial reasons, a lack of interest, or if that's just the ratio of males to females.

Are there any other well known avenues for paying for the National Powered Flight Academy for a 16 year old male in the NCO ranks, scholarships etc?

Have they changed the requirements for the Powered Flight Academy? When I was a cadet you had to have you Mitchell to even apply, but I aged out of being able to attend (18) before I got my Mitchell (started CAP very late).

[xray328]

Cadet Requirements:
Age 16 by activity start date
Must have encampment credit when you apply

Additionally:

Cadets that have earned the Wright Brothers Award are encouraged to apply for the Col Mary Feik Flight Scholarship to help pay for this activity!

Seems like that should state:

Female cadets that have earned the Wright Brothers Award are encouraged to apply for the Col Mary Feik Flight Scholarship to help pay for this activity!

The kicker here is that my 13 year old daughter (C/SSgt) is starting her glider training locally in the spring and doesn't qualify at all.

[FW]

Ned explains things clearly. CAP is, most likely, not providing (they are administering it) the scholarship.  That is being done thru the "CAP Foundation", which is a separate 501C-3 non profit Corp.  Dr. D is the Executive officer.  The Donor has every right to limit the recipients.  CAP is not "breaking" any regulation.  Public Institutions throughout the country grant scholarships to "special" groups all the time.  There are even scholarships for lefties...

We have a capable COO, CFO, and Corporate Legal Counsel which goes over this "stuff" on a regular basis.  If you wish, give their office a call. I'm sure they would be happy to explain things further, LOL. Even, better, give Dr. D a call.  I'm sure he'll be delighted to explain things; just make sure you have your credit card available. 

[NC Hokie]

Cadets that have earned the Wright Brothers Award are encouraged to apply for the Col Mary Feik Flight Scholarship to help pay for this activity!

Seems like that should state:

Female cadets that have earned the Wright Brothers Award are encouraged to apply for the Col Mary Feik Flight Scholarship to help pay for this activity!

I had an irate parent point this out to me last night.  I hope that Ned sees this and passes this on to the appropriate NHQ staffer.

[Storm Chaser]

Does anyone know of any other flight scholarships?  My son is 16, currently a C/SSgt, just graduated from the NCO Leadership Academy and would like to fly at an NSCA next summer.

For a second there I thought you were genuinely concerned with the equality of all our cadet members.

[xray328]

 

My whole reason for posting this was just to see if the Mary Feik was in fact only available for female cadets because if that was so we'd have to look at other avenues for funding the activity.  Period.

There have been some very good points brought up here though.  If the donor wants this money to go to females only, fine.  My only issue is that I think the bar needs to be raised to the same requirements as the male cadets, they need to of earned the Mitchell (or lower the bar for the males).  The requirements need to be equal.  The inference is that female cadets don't need to work as hard as the males do to get an equal benefit. 

[MSG Mac]

The inference I got was that the scholarship was the "Mary Feik" And was fittingly tied in to the "Feik Award" completion. I see no problem with targeting young women to receive the benefits or that the requirements are different from those that are provided by CAP (different pot of money). To paraphrase Col Lee -If you want males to get the same rules. Put your money where your mouth is.

[xray328]

But it's not. The Mary Feik is for C/SrA. The scholarship is for C/SSgt (Wright Bros).

As to the rest, I see so much wrong with that on so many levels.

[Spam]

Well, xray, at the least, it does gets females used to having the bar lowered for them throughout a career in the military and in aviation... is that an intended outcome, I wonder?

(bit of sarcasm there, sorry; I was involved with the Kara Hultgreen MIB... and had hoped we were growing out of this organizational behavior).

V/R,
Spam

[THRAWN]

Well, xray, at the least, it does gets females used to having the bar lowered for them throughout a career in the military and in aviation... is that an intended outcome, I wonder?

(bit of sarcasm there, sorry; I was involved with the Kara Hultgreen MIB... and had hoped we were growing out of this organizational behavior).

V/R,
Spam

It's not sarcasm if it is true. This is the lesson that is being taken away from this. I'm floored that the organization that brought the names Willa Brown, Nanette Spears and Louisa Spruance Morse into aviation history would "administer" something like this. Don't get me wrong, I think that scholarships for cadets are great things. If the organization is going to give its endorsement, explicit or perceived, it should be to programs that are color and gender blind. This does not attract women to aviation. It just clearly demonstrates to them that the only way that they will be able to compete is with a set of loaded dice. Maybe CAP could advertise this, along side of other scholarships, and leave the administration to the donors themselves.

[LSThiker]

Well, xray, at the least, it does gets females used to having the bar lowered for them throughout a career in the military and in aviation... is that an intended outcome, I wonder?

(bit of sarcasm there, sorry; I was involved with the Kara Hultgreen MIB... and had hoped we were growing out of this organizational behavior).

V/R,
Spam

It's not sarcasm if it is true. This is the lesson that is being taken away from this. I'm floored that the organization that brought the names Willa Brown, Nanette Spears and Louisa Spruance Morse into aviation history would "administer" something like this. Don't get me wrong, I think that scholarships for cadets are great things. If the organization is going to give its endorsement, explicit or perceived, it should be to programs that are color and gender blind. This does not attract women to aviation. It just clearly demonstrates to them that the only way that they will be able to compete is with a set of loaded dice. Maybe CAP could advertise this, along side of other scholarships, and leave the administration to the donors themselves.

Whether it is true or not is debatable.  Regardless of personal opinion, which I am not saying I agree or disagree with some of the points made here, is arguing about this particular topic on CAPTalk really going to make any difference?  Is anyone from NHQ or the Foundation really going to say, "hey, they (CAPTalk) make some good points so we are going to change this"?  Doubt it.  The only way to properly address personal issues regarding this topic is through the Chain of Command or direct with NHQ.

Sure some changes, particularly in the CP realm, were the result of CAPTalk, but I doubt any change to this program is going to happen through CAPTalk discussions.   

[Майор Хаткевич]

Think about it this way:

If X females get the Feik Scholarship, then X males have a higher chance at the regular flight scholarships.

[Ned]

.  CAP is administering a benefit that upon review is openly and clearly discriminatory against male cadets, when we clearly are forbidden to do so for, quote, "any CAP program or activity" per R36-1 [ . . .]

Regardless of the intent to target funds to a specific group, legally this violates policy. Would CAP accepted scholarship money to the links listed if it were privately offered but tied to a provision that only white cadets were allowed to apply, and named the "White Cadet Flight Training Fund"? Probably not. Equally, a "FEMALE" only provision is clearly in contravention of our policy, regardless of a desire to target females for flight training.

Jeff,

I'm a legal kind of guy and I'm not seeing it.  CAP offers flight scholarships to all of our cadets.  Males get something like 80% of all the flight scholarships.  If we are discriminating against males, we are not doing a very good job at it.

And to respond to your intended-to-be-provocative race question, if the Tuskeegee Airmen Foundation or the Organization of Black Aerospace Professionals (OBAP) came to CAP and wanted to offer flight scholarship money for cadets, but restricted it to African American cadets because they are underrepresented as pilots and cadets, I would recommend to the leadership that we accept the money and get more cadets flying.  Cadets who would otherwise not get any funding.

But, reasonable minds can certainly differ on this and other topics.  You should consider filing a gender discrimination complaint with the IG.  (If you are successful, you will, of course, be depriving some cadets of flight training.)

I think the conversation would be different if we were offering a kind of scholarship or perhaps an activity that was restricted solely on a suspect criteria.  Like the old Stewardess Orientation Course.  But here, as I mentioned, all cadets may apply for flight scholarships.

We actually have discussions on this and similar topics in the shop fairly frequently.  Should we continue to offer PJOC when some of our cadets are restricted from participating based solely on a disability?  Should we have different PT standards for cadets based solely on gender? 

Fairness is incredibly important to us.  We have made huge strides in ensuring that encampment is the same for young men and women.  CPP revisions have been made that have the effect of increasing safety for both young women young men.  We thought we had eliminated the "party dress" exception to the 39-1 for cadets.  (Although it sounds like we still need to make that clearer.)

Here's that link to PayPal again for anyone wanting to further increase flight training opportunities for our cadets.

Thank you all for the discussion.  We will be looking at the website to make sure the donor's restriction is more prominent.

Ned Lee
National Cadet Program Manager

[xray328]

Col, the bar has still been lowered for the female cadets (requiring only the wright brothers)As the father of a female cadet I don't want her to feel  that she is in any way inferior to the male cadets, especially in an intellectual way. Can you suggest how I explain this to her?

(All, please don't look into any hidden meaning. This is an honest question that I would appreciate the groups help with.)