Winter Encampment- Cold?!?

[Navybugs18]

Hi,
I am a CAWG cadet applying to the ORWG encampment. As I understand it, its gonna be pretty cold the entire week. How am I gonna stay warm in just BDUS? The packing list ORWG encampment sent out doesn't really say anything about keeping warm.

Thanks,
C/A1C Celina Guan

[lordmonar]

Have you contacted anyone affiliated with ORWG Cadet Programs?

That is where I would go first with your questions.

http://orwg.cap.gov/encampment.html

The contacts for any questions is on the bottom of this page.

[Navybugs18]

This is slightly off topic but what is a camelbak?

[MSG Mac]

It's basically a 3 quart canteen that you carry on your back with a tube to sip water from.

[Navybugs18]

I was just wondering which you would prefer for encampment? camelbak or canteen? camelbaks are much much more expensive then canteens but from what I've heard, more widely used.

[Garibaldi]

I was just wondering which you would prefer for encampment? camelbak or canteen? camelbaks are much much more expensive then canteens but from what I've heard, more widely used.

There are some encampments that forbid Camelbaks, for some reason that I can't fathom. I'd bring both. Canteens on a pistol belt is cheaper, but it never, ever hurts to have more water. While it is possible to overhydrate (mucks up your hemoglobin), there's the possibility that you can be a hero by sharing with someone who didn't have the foresight to bring enough.

[Garibaldi]

Also, to answer the OP's question, if it's cold, then bring a coat. They're not going to tell you no. M-65 BDU coat with liner and appropriate insignia, or a Gore-Tex parka in BDU camo. All other patterns are not authorized for use. We just recently got authorization to use the plain black fleece with the appropriate insignia, consult CAPM 39-1 for details.

[SarDragon]

I just got back from Bend, Oregon. It was cold. Four days of sub-freezing daytime cold. A fleece won't cut it. You'll need a serious warm weather coat.

Since you are in Group 7, you won't have much need for a super warm coat, so you if you have any cadet friends in NorCal, you might see if you can borrow one. Or, check with the encampment folks and see if they have any available.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Problems with Camelbacks:

1. Cadets have the tube in the mouth all the time, blow air into it for the Camel so water shoots as a jet into their mouth. Camelb looks full, it is not. Cadets take only sips, they do get dehydrated! Happened to one of my cadets in my first Encampment. His Camelback looked full, and felt like it also. Yet I always saw him with the tube in his mouth. I should have checked the weight, I did not.

2. During a TRAINEX, or maybe during my second Encampment. Another senior member took apart the tube and mouthpiece of a Camelback, and showed me months of mildew accumulation inside the drinking tube. Went into an impromptu safety lecture on cleaning the water tube and mouthpieces of Camelbacks, or better yet replacing them. We looked at several, all had months of mildew growth. Gross, and unhealthy.

Maybe those Wings that prohibited them had cronic problems with 1 or 2 or both.

[Garibaldi]

Problems with Camelbacks:

1. Cadets have the tube in the mouth all the time, blow air into it for the Camel so water shoots as a jet into their mouth. Camelb looks full, it is not. Cadets take only sips, they do get dehydrated! Happened to one of my cadets in my first Encampment. His Camelback looked full, and felt like it also. Yet I always saw him with the tube in his mouth. I should have checked the weight, I did not.

2. During a TRAINEX, or maybe during my second Encampment. Another senior member took apart the tube and mouthpiece of a Camelback, and showed me months of mildew accumulation inside the drinking tube. Went into an impromptu safety lecture on cleaning the water tube and mouthpieces of Camelbacks, or better yet replacing them. We looked at several, all had months of mildew growth. Gross, and unhealthy.

Maybe those Wings that prohibited them had cronic problems with 1 or 2 or both.

Very likely, but now that I think about it...they had issues with leaking all over the place because cadets wouldn't close the valve, or didn't tighten the cap fully. Soaked BDU shirts, loss of water, etc.

[Live2Learn]

Hi,
I am a CAWG cadet applying to the ORWG encampment. As I understand it, its gonna be pretty cold the entire week. How am I gonna stay warm in just BDUS? The packing list ORWG encampment sent out doesn't really say anything about keeping warm.

Thanks,
C/A1C Celina Guan

Long underwear (pants and top - wool/cotton mix that will wick moisture away from your skin) a must.  Wool will still be warm even if you sweat...

A watch cap (wool!, not the nylon synthetic stuff.  See comment above)

A wool vest or pullover that you can wear beneath your BDU top.

Wool socks (look for rag type that doesn't constrict circulation.  Be sure they will fit inside your boots without feeling really 'tight'... again a circulation thing)

Take some lotion ... face and hands may become quite dry and chapped depending on how much exposure you have.

A wool scarf that you can wear around your neck.  If it gets REALLY cold you can even use it as a shawl over your head.  It's amazing how much warmer you'll feel!

A couple of GOOD LED flashlights.  Several spare batteries for same.  Don't rely on rechargeable batteries.

Sun glasses.  If it's snowy and the sun comes out you will be very happy to have shades.  Avoid blue or pink.  You want something that will not only block UV, but also excess light.  The FAA has a good pamphlet on sunglasses.  See:  Publication AM-400-05/1 ... do a Google search.  You'll want lenses big enough to block excess light!

Warm gloves.  You might find some regulation mittens at a good Army/Navy Surplus store near you.  Otherwise, go online and get it ordered in time for the big event.

Someone already mentioned a warm coat with liner.  The BDU field jacket liner isn't bad.  But be sure to supplement it with layers beneath!  Before you leave home be sure to apply water repellant silicon spray (multiple coats) to your field jacket.

And enjoy the camaraderie and experience!

[PHall]

CAWG issued Camelbaks to all of the students at the past two encampments. Since they're brand new right out of the box when we issue them, they should be clean. And the students take them home with them at the end of encampment.
Only problems we've had have been minor ones like the tube leaking where it attaches to the bladder because the cadet didn't make sure it was tight before it was filled. Easy two minute fix and they usually don't forget the second time.

As for the cadre and the FTO's who bring their own, we (being me) bring a couple Camelbak cleaning kits and encourage them to clean their Camelbaks during pre-encampment.
Haven't had any medical issues due to Camelbak cleaniness, yet.

[lordmonar]

Hi,
I am a CAWG cadet applying to the ORWG encampment. As I understand it, its gonna be pretty cold the entire week. How am I gonna stay warm in just BDUS? The packing list ORWG encampment sent out doesn't really say anything about keeping warm.

Thanks,
C/A1C Celina Guan

Long underwear (pants and top - wool/cotton mix that will wick moisture away from your skin) a must.  Wool will still be warm even if you sweat...

A watch cap (wool!, not the nylon synthetic stuff.  See comment above)

A wool vest or pullover that you can wear beneath your BDU top.

Wool socks (look for rag type that doesn't constrict circulation.  Be sure they will fit inside your boots without feeling really 'tight'... again a circulation thing)

Take some lotion ... face and hands may become quite dry and chapped depending on how much exposure you have.

A wool scarf that you can wear around your neck.  If it gets REALLY cold you can even use it as a shawl over your head.  It's amazing how much warmer you'll feel!

A couple of GOOD LED flashlights.  Several spare batteries for same.  Don't rely on rechargeable batteries.

Sun glasses.  If it's snowy and the sun comes out you will be very happy to have shades.  Avoid blue or pink.  You want something that will not only block UV, but also excess light.  The FAA has a good pamphlet on sunglasses.  See:  Publication AM-400-05/1 ... do a Google search.  You'll want lenses big enough to block excess light!

Warm gloves.  You might find some regulation mittens at a good Army/Navy Surplus store near you.  Otherwise, go online and get it ordered in time for the big event.

Someone already mentioned a warm coat with liner.  The BDU field jacket liner isn't bad.  But be sure to supplement it with layers beneath!  Before you leave home be sure to apply water repellant silicon spray (multiple coats) to your field jacket.

And enjoy the camaraderie and experience!

All that stuff is very cool and very sensible for cold weather operations.  But none of it is on the ORWG Winter Encampment Packing list.  And we all know.....pack everything on the list and nothing else. 

So the only.......the only answer we can give the OP is to contact ORWG and ask them.

[SarDragon]

I looked up the location, and it's west of the mountains, and even the 5, so it won't be as cold as where I was last weekend. A warm coat is still advisable, though.

[Al Sayre]

Long johns might also work...

[almostspaatz]

Long johns might also work...

How about a good old fashioned union suit? 

[arajca]

Long johns might also work...

How about a good old fashioned union suit? 

Only if you can get it in black or white.

[Garibaldi]

I should have clarified. The black fleece can be worn under the Gore-tex parka if necessary. I don't know about using it as outerwear with insignia for cadets, as there are no cloth cadet grades below C/2LT.

Yes, I said 2LT. Sue me. 

[wacapgh]

6.1.12. Black Fleece. (Figure 6.11)
6.1.12.1. Only worn outdoors with the Aviator Shirt Uniform, Corporate Field Uniform, Corporate Flight Duty Uniform, or Corporate Working Uniform; remove indoors. (Exception: local commanders have the authority to allow indoor wear of the black fleece jacket as mission needs dictate).

However...

1.2.3.2. Cadets will wear the USAF-style uniforms as outlined in this manual as a key component of their cadet experience. However, cadets over age 18 who are not eligible to wear the USAF-style uniforms due to not meeting weight standards are authorized to wear all Corporate-style uniform combinations, except the Corporate Working Uniform since it does not allow for wear of rank insignia.

[Garibaldi]

6.1.12. Black Fleece. (Figure 6.11)
6.1.12.1. Only worn outdoors with the Aviator Shirt Uniform, Corporate Field Uniform, Corporate Flight Duty Uniform, or Corporate Working Uniform; remove indoors. (Exception: local commanders have the authority to allow indoor wear of the black fleece jacket as mission needs dictate).

However...

1.2.3.2. Cadets will wear the USAF-style uniforms as outlined in this manual as a key component of their cadet experience. However, cadets over age 18 who are not eligible to wear the USAF-style uniforms due to not meeting weight standards are authorized to wear all Corporate-style uniform combinations, except the Corporate Working Uniform since it does not allow for wear of rank insignia.

Aaaaaagh! Reg Quote! Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!

[BFreemanMA]

Came for the Firefly reference; left satisfied  :clap:

[Spam]

You can't take the sky from me!

*Brown coats, unite.

V/R
Spam

[Garibaldi]

I'm getting pretty good at sliding in references to Firefly. Sometimes subtle, sometimes very overt. I WAS good at Babylon 5 references, but lately I feel...I feel....like I'm being....nibbled to death by....ugh. What are those things? Earth creatures, webbed feet, go quack....cats. I feel like I'm being nibbled to death by cats.

[TheSkyHornet]

You can't take the sky from me!

*Brown coats, unite.

V/R
Spam

But I can... 

[THRAWN]

The title of this thread reminds me of the Bugs Bunny cartoon....Remember that old Bugs Bunny cartoon where he hits a little Indian man in the face with a snowball? The confused Indian asks Bugs Bunny, "Snow? In July? How can you make'um snowball in July?" And Bugs Bunny answers, "Well ya see, Doc, it's too cold to make 'em in the winter time."

[almostspaatz]

The title of this thread reminds me of the Bugs Bunny cartoon....Remember that old Bugs Bunny cartoon where he hits a little Indian man in the face with a snowball? The confused Indian asks Bugs Bunny, "Snow? In July? How can you make'um snowball in July?" And Bugs Bunny answers, "Well ya see, Doc, it's too cold to make 'em in the winter time."

YES!!!
:clap: :clap:

[THRAWN]

The title of this thread reminds me of the Bugs Bunny cartoon....Remember that old Bugs Bunny cartoon where he hits a little Indian man in the face with a snowball? The confused Indian asks Bugs Bunny, "Snow? In July? How can you make'um snowball in July?" And Bugs Bunny answers, "Well ya see, Doc, it's too cold to make 'em in the winter time."

YES!!!
:clap: :clap:

Thank you....remember: snow too cold for winter...

But to reply to the OP: listen to what lordmonar wrote. Contact the encampment and find out what's in place. Source some thermal underwear. There are plenty of military issue sets that will keep you nice and warm if need be. Have fun and I hope that encampment is a valuable experience!

[LSThiker]

Remember that old Bugs Bunny cartoon where he hits a little Indian man in the face with a snowball?

"That's racist" ~Cinemasins

[THRAWN]

Remember that old Bugs Bunny cartoon where he hits a little Indian man in the face with a snowball?

"That's racist" ~Cinemasins

You're right. I'm discriminating against Cartoon-Americans.

[SMSvonderTang]

Hi,
I am a CAWG cadet applying to the ORWG encampment. As I understand it, its gonna be pretty cold the entire week. How am I gonna stay warm in just BDUS? The packing list ORWG encampment sent out doesn't really say anything about keeping warm.

Thanks,
C/A1C Celina Guan

Long underwear (pants and top - wool/cotton mix that will wick moisture away from your skin) a must.  Wool will still be warm even if you sweat...

A watch cap (wool!, not the nylon synthetic stuff.  See comment above)

A wool vest or pullover that you can wear beneath your BDU top.

Wool socks (look for rag type that doesn't constrict circulation.  Be sure they will fit inside your boots without feeling really 'tight'... again a circulation thing)

Take some lotion ... face and hands may become quite dry and chapped depending on how much exposure you have.

A wool scarf that you can wear around your neck.  If it gets REALLY cold you can even use it as a shawl over your head.  It's amazing how much warmer you'll feel!

A couple of GOOD LED flashlights.  Several spare batteries for same.  Don't rely on rechargeable batteries.

Sun glasses.  If it's snowy and the sun comes out you will be very happy to have shades.  Avoid blue or pink.  You want something that will not only block UV, but also excess light.  The FAA has a good pamphlet on sunglasses.  See:  Publication AM-400-05/1 ... do a Google search.  You'll want lenses big enough to block excess light!

Warm gloves.  You might find some regulation mittens at a good Army/Navy Surplus store near you.  Otherwise, go online and get it ordered in time for the big event.

Someone already mentioned a warm coat with liner.  The BDU field jacket liner isn't bad.  But be sure to supplement it with layers beneath!  Before you leave home be sure to apply water repellant silicon spray (multiple coats) to your field jacket.

And enjoy the camaraderie and experience!

Well, last year I went to the NH Wing Winter Encampment and they issued this packing list. wcla.nhcapcadets.org/uploads/2/9/8/8/2988792/winter_enc_pack_list_2014.pdf

Hope it helps.

[MSG Mac]

Hi,
I am a CAWG cadet applying to the ORWG encampment. As I understand it, its gonna be pretty cold the entire week. How am I gonna stay warm in just BDUS? The packing list ORWG encampment sent out doesn't really say anything about keeping warm.

Thanks,
C/A1C Celina Guan

Long underwear (pants and top - wool/cotton mix that will wick moisture away from your skin) a must.  Wool will still be warm even if you sweat...

A watch cap (wool!, not the nylon synthetic stuff.  See comment above)

A wool vest or pullover that you can wear beneath your BDU top.

Wool socks (look for rag type that doesn't constrict circulation.  Be sure they will fit inside your boots without feeling really 'tight'... again a circulation thing)

Take some lotion ... face and hands may become quite dry and chapped depending on how much exposure you have.

A wool scarf that you can wear around your neck.  If it gets REALLY cold you can even use it as a shawl over your head.  It's amazing how much warmer you'll feel!

A couple of GOOD LED flashlights.  Several spare batteries for same.  Don't rely on rechargeable batteries.

Sun glasses.  If it's snowy and the sun comes out you will be very happy to have shades.  Avoid blue or pink.  You want something that will not only block UV, but also excess light.  The FAA has a good pamphlet on sunglasses.  See:  Publication AM-400-05/1 ... do a Google search.  You'll want lenses big enough to block excess light!

Warm gloves.  You might find some regulation mittens at a good Army/Navy Surplus store near you.  Otherwise, go online and get it ordered in time for the big event.

Someone already mentioned a warm coat with liner.  The BDU field jacket liner isn't bad.  But be sure to supplement it with layers beneath!  Before you leave home be sure to apply water repellant silicon spray (multiple coats) to your field jacket.

And enjoy the camaraderie and experience!

Well, last year I went to the NH Wing Winter Encampment and they issued this packing list. wcla.nhcapcadets.org/uploads/2/9/8/8/2988792/winter_enc_pack_list_2014.pdf

Hope it helps.

The two wings are a continent apart, and while both are known for being cold, ORWG has been doing this for years and knows from experience what their members will need for their encampment.