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Online Safety for Patrons?

Started by Dad2-4, September 29, 2015, 07:44:46 PM

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Dad2-4

I've been on Patron status due to living overseas for a while but I've kept my online safety training current. 2 days ago I logged on to do a course and e-services online safety training now says that Patrons cannot use the system. When did this change? Is there another alternative, or does my safety training now go past due until I return to Active status?

jeders

Well first off, there is no longer any safety currency requirement.

Second, and I don't know for sure, so don't quote me, but I don't think patrons were ever supposed to maintain safety currency. If that was true, then it was an error that the system had you maintain currency, and the error has been eliminated.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

Storm Chaser

Patrons were never required to maintain safety currency.

And just to clarify, safety currency is no longer tracked and members are no longer prevented from participating in CAP activities without their monthly safety education. However, there's still a requirement for units to conduct monthly safety education and for active members to participate in it whether in-person or through one of the approved sources, to include online courses in SMS.

JeffDG

Seems silly to exclude Patrons from safety education...

If they want to learn, let them. 

Spam

Agree with you Jeff. Restricting safety education... not a well thought out strategic SE plan on the face of it.


However, this could be our eServices IT staff flexing their muscles again, as they did two months ago when they unilaterally made policy by removing the ability for commanders to assign any WSA privs to cadets, just because they were cadets (so my Cadet Commander and his staff have been unable to pull reports and call down rosters as they're required to, as part of their jobs).


It seems as if Patrons get included in the "not safety current" stats for a unit, as well, at least when I looked last month they were. So, I don't understand how these two policies mesh. This has all the hallmarks to me of NHQ/IT legislating unapproved, unauthorized program changes from their desks again, I would say.


V/R,
Spam


Storm Chaser

Or it could just be an oversight, which happens from time to time.

Personally, I have no issues with Patrons doing online safety education. That said, Patron members, by definition, are not active members, but financial supporters and are not allowed to participate in CAP training or activities except as listed in CAPR 39-2, Para. 3-1b(1).

Live2Learn

Quote from: Dad2-4 on September 29, 2015, 07:44:46 PM
I've been on Patron status due to living overseas for a while but I've kept my online safety training current. 2 days ago I logged on to do a course and e-services online safety training now says that Patrons cannot use the system. When did this change? Is there another alternative, or does my safety training now go past due until I return to Active status?

Dunno about online CAP safety training, but there are lotsa opportunities online for aviation related safety education.  Go to www.faasafety.gov, sign up for the FAA Wings program, and lots of webinars pop up.  Topics range from weather to fatigue and on to aerodynamics.  If you want CAP safety ed credit go to your FAA Wings preferences and find where you can request CAP credit. 


SARDOC

Quote from: jeders on September 29, 2015, 08:35:12 PM
Well first off, there is no longer any safety currency requirement.

Second, and I don't know for sure, so don't quote me, but I don't think patrons were ever supposed to maintain safety currency. If that was true, then it was an error that the system had you maintain currency, and the error has been eliminated.

Partially correct.  There is still a monthly safety training requirement.  It will not preclude anyone from participating in CAP events though.

The Regulation didn't require Patron members to meet the monthly Safety requirement.  The ICL says that ALL CAP members were still to participate in the Safety program although I don't think the intention was to expand this to Patron members.  See the ICL here

http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/ICL_621_29_Jun_15_DA421BC524659.pdf

jeders

Quote from: SARDOC on October 14, 2015, 10:25:32 PM
Quote from: jeders on September 29, 2015, 08:35:12 PM
Well first off, there is no longer any safety currency requirement.

Second, and I don't know for sure, so don't quote me, but I don't think patrons were ever supposed to maintain safety currency. If that was true, then it was an error that the system had you maintain currency, and the error has been eliminated.

Partially correct.  There is still a monthly safety training requirement. 

Not quite. There is still a requirement for the unit to provide the training, however, there is no requirement to attend or remain current in that training. So, what I said before about there no longer being a safety currency requirement is correct.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: jeders on October 16, 2015, 04:22:24 PM
Quote from: SARDOC on October 14, 2015, 10:25:32 PM
Quote from: jeders on September 29, 2015, 08:35:12 PM
Well first off, there is no longer any safety currency requirement.

Second, and I don't know for sure, so don't quote me, but I don't think patrons were ever supposed to maintain safety currency. If that was true, then it was an error that the system had you maintain currency, and the error has been eliminated.

Partially correct.  There is still a monthly safety training requirement. 

Not quite. There is still a requirement for the unit to provide the training, however, there is no requirement to attend or remain current in that training. So, what I said before about there no longer being a safety currency requirement is correct.

I believe you're correct, Sir.

The requirement to attend or remain current is not there. It's the responsibility of the unit to essentially provide safety awareness and ensure that an individual who has not been in regularly or recent attendance to safety briefs or lessons should not be permitted to participate until caught up to speed.

I'm finding some squadrons aren't in full understanding of the difference between the monthly mandate versus the currency requirement, which is no longer in effect. I'm still hearing people, generally seniors, saying the phrase "safety current."

That being said, how many times have you seen someone not actually sitting in on a safety lesson still sign the attendance sheet or get their currency added into the system? Walking outside 2 minutes into a meeting and coming back in 2 minute before a 30-minute safety brief is convened, to me, does not satisfy the idea that you attended.