Wear of ONLY military ribbon

[vento]

It is mandatory to wear ribbons with the class A uniform. Question is: Can a member chose to wear only his military awards and none of the CAP ribbons? Just curious.

[Eclipse]

Yes. Seen it done all the time, generally by people too lazy or cheap to buy ribbons
that are relevent to CAP.

Edit: New 39-1 makes CAP ribbons mandatory, see below.

[vento]

Yes. Seen it done all the time, generally by people too lazy or cheap to buy ribbons
that are relevent to CAP.

That is very sad.

[Eclipse]

A little odd, sometimes, too. 

One gent I know has been wearing his retired USAF rack for years with no CAP decs.
It's confirmed he was in, and made some pretty good grade as well (other members in CAP worked with
him or knew of him).

The odd thing is that for the 10+ years I've known him, he's been wearing a full shirt of USAF decs...
on Army racks, so the spacing is off.  It looks like the Walmart shelves the day after Black Friday.

[DoubleSecret]

It is mandatory to wear ribbons with the class A uniform. Question is: Can a member chose to wear only his military awards and none of the CAP ribbons? Just curious.

11.1. Wear Instructions.

11.1.1. Wear only regular size ribbons and miniature size medals.

11.1.1.1. Ribbons and devices are mandatory with the USAF-style Service Dress (Class A) and USAF-style Semiformal uniforms, and optional with the USAF-style Blue Service Uniform (Class B) and Corporate-style Aviator Shirt Uniforms. When ribbons and devices are worn, all authorized ribbons will be worn on USAF-style uniforms, except:
11.1.1.1.1. Officers and NCOs. On the USAF-style uniforms, all ribbons, badges, and devices worn by adult members must fall below the top notch of the collar on the service coat or the bottom tip of the collar of shirts/blouses when those are worn without a service coat. Individuals may choose which ribbons to eliminate to meet this requirement, but are encouraged to initially remove CAP professional development ribbons to reach the required height. (Note, CAP aviation and chaplain badges remain mandatory for wear on USAF-style uniforms and ribbons may need to be removed to meet this requirement.)

[vento]

It is mandatory to wear ribbons with the class A uniform. Question is: Can a member chose to wear only his military awards and none of the CAP ribbons? Just curious.

11.1. Wear Instructions.

11.1.1. Wear only regular size ribbons and miniature size medals.

11.1.1.1. Ribbons and devices are mandatory with the USAF-style Service Dress (Class A) and USAF-style Semiformal uniforms, and optional with the USAF-style Blue Service Uniform (Class B) and Corporate-style Aviator Shirt Uniforms. When ribbons and devices are worn, all authorized ribbons will be worn on USAF-style uniforms, except:
11.1.1.1.1. Officers and NCOs. On the USAF-style uniforms, all ribbons, badges, and devices worn by adult members must fall below the top notch of the collar on the service coat or the bottom tip of the collar of shirts/blouses when those are worn without a service coat. Individuals may choose which ribbons to eliminate to meet this requirement, but are encouraged to initially remove CAP professional development ribbons to reach the required height. (Note, CAP aviation and chaplain badges remain mandatory for wear on USAF-style uniforms and ribbons may need to be removed to meet this requirement.)

Thanks, but that was not the question...  :angel:
In our regulation, it doesn't say anywhere if a member can wear ONLY military ribbon and NONE of the CAP ribbons. The regulation only stipulates about removal (reduction in size) of CAP ribbons to make it fit in the space.
One would think that CAP ribbon within CAP should have some meaning in our organization. Oh well.

[RiverAux]

Sure it does -- says ribbons are mandatory and all authorized will be worn...

[Brad]

Yep, all or none unless too tall. I see they got rid of our broader "all-some-or none" on Class Bs.

[Eclipse]

Sure it does -- says ribbons are mandatory and all authorized will be worn...

Interesting - something new.

I suppose we will have members with military decs thinking that the above means
"trim your CAP ribbons before trimming your military ones", when in fact the only thing mandatory
are the CAP ones, so the military ones should get trimmed first, though it doesn't say that.

A little redundancy sprinkled into the last paragraph, too.

Too bad these things aren't posted for review before being published.

[vento]

The curiosity arose when I was browsing the different Region websites and saw a Region CC (well decorated in the RM) wearing only military ribbons and military aviator wings. I would think the colonel should have quite a few CAP ribbons and decorations but he chose not to wear them.

http://swr.cap.gov/

[Eclipse]

To be fair, that's presumably a 2011 photo, and in the decade up to this last June,
"some or all" was allowed, so technically mil-only was OK.

With that said, if anyone should be wearing their CAP decs, it's eagles.

[RiverAux]

Yep, all or none unless too tall.

Well, depends on the uniform. NONE isn't an option on USAF-style Service Dress (Class A) and USAF-style Semiformal uniforms.  If you wear those uniforms, you will wear all your ribbons (unless you run out of space).

They did set up unnecessary confusion though since on corporate uniforms it appears that you have the option not only whether or not to wear ribbons, but the option on whether or not to wear some or all of the ribbons.  At least they could have required that all CAP ribbons be worn on corporate style.

[Storm Chaser]

Regulations aside, I feel that CAP ribbons and badges should take precedence over military awards on the CAP uniform. I'm not opposed to wearing military badges and ribbons on the CAP uniform (and have worn them in the past), but now that I have too many to wear them all, I prefer to wear CAP awards over military ones, as I feel they're more relevant to the organization and its mission. I'm sure many here will disagree.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I knew a Lieutenant Colonel (long since passed on) who only wore his World War II Victory Medal ribbon on his CAP uniform.  Nothing else.

[Tim Medeiros]

The curiosity arose when I was browsing the different Region websites and saw a Region CC (well decorated in the RM) wearing only military ribbons and military aviator wings. I would think the colonel should have quite a few CAP ribbons and decorations but he chose not to wear them.

http://swr.cap.gov/

Just a note, that site will be going away shortly (as soon as things get actioned).

[JeffDG]

The curiosity arose when I was browsing the different Region websites and saw a Region CC (well decorated in the RM) wearing only military ribbons and military aviator wings. I would think the colonel should have quite a few CAP ribbons and decorations but he chose not to wear them.

http://swr.cap.gov/

Just a note, that site will be going away shortly (as soon as things get actioned).

I noted the "last updated" on the page and was hoping that was the case!

[vento]

You mean the last remaining website made with Microsoft FrontPage is going away? Oh my...

[JeffDG]

You mean the last remaining website made with Microsoft FrontPage is going away? Oh my...

Who has a bugle and can play "Last Post"?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Away with ye...I still use Microsoft Office 97 and Windows XP!

[Storm Chaser]

Away with ye...I still use Microsoft Office 97 and Windows XP!

And you're proud of that!

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Away with ye...I still use Microsoft Office 97 and Windows XP!

And you're proud of that!

Yes.

Office 97 still works...and I got it for free when I was an IT.

Oddly enough, for an ex-IT, I have become somewhat of a techno-Luddite.  This is because when I worked in IT, technology started moving too fast for me and it was just too mentally and physically exhausting to keep up.

Mind you, I kept Windows 98 until the very last possible date of viability!

I do not have a smartphone, Bluetooth, BlackBerry or whatever.  All my phone does is talk, text, take pictures and play Tetris, Scrabble, chess and pool...and I still have a landline!

People in CAP are often baffled as to why I do not want the IT Officer position...

[JeffDG]

Impressive...started as a uniform thread, and has been completely derailed.

Well done.   :clap:

[Storm Chaser]

Away with ye...I still use Microsoft Office 97 and Windows XP!

And you're proud of that!

Yes.

Office 97 still works...and I got it for free when I was an IT.

Oddly enough, for an ex-IT, I have become somewhat of a techno-Luddite.  This is because when I worked in IT, technology started moving too fast for me and it was just too mentally and physically exhausting to keep up.

Mind you, I kept Windows 98 until the very last possible date of viability!

I do not have a smartphone, Bluetooth, BlackBerry or whatever.  All my phone does is talk, text, take pictures and play Tetris, Scrabble, chess and pool...and I still have a landline!

People in CAP are often baffled as to why I do not want the IT Officer position...

Windows XP was a solid and proven operating system. Unfortunately, there are too many vulnerabilities now to make worth using any more. If you don't want to make the jump to Windows 8.1, then I suggest you upgrade to Windows 7.

In my case, I chose to switch to Mac for my personal use four years ago after having used every version of Windows exclusively for the previous 17 years. I'm also an IT professional and just got tired of the headaches.

Impressive...started as a uniform thread, and has been completely derailed.

Well done.   :clap:

If you want a thread about uniforms, maybe you should start one about IT.

[Garibaldi]

If you want a thread about uniforms, maybe you should start one about IT.

Or pretty much anything. You can even get a safety thread derailed into a uniform thread. Flight, ES, safety, logistics, history, personnel, admin...everything leads to the uniform.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Cyb, is your phone a flip phone?

I still prefer MS Office 97, Windows XP. My cell is a flip phone. A cadet told me recently I should get with the times and get a smart(er) phone. I told him I prefer flip phones as they look like a phone, you do not advertise your business to the world. In addition, it is waterproof to about 5 feet, a bonus when I go on exercises! And it has a rubber coating in case I drop it at an exercise.

I do not like to talk to a brick. It is not ergonomical and unless you use a headphone, everyone else knows your business!

[MSG Mac]

Cyb, is your phone a flip phone?

I still prefer MS Office 97, Windows XP. My cell is a flip phone. A cadet told me recently I should get with the times and get a smart(er) phone. I told him I prefer flip phones as they look like a phone, you do not advertise your business to the world. In addition, it is waterproof to about 5 feet, a bonus when I go on exercises! And it has a rubber coating in case I drop it at an exercise.

I do not like to talk to a brick. It is not ergonomical and unless you use a headphone, everyone else knows your business!

I also have a flip phone. I agree with your reasons. Now to convince people that my phone is for calling out and not for them to call into.

[flyboy53]

It is mandatory to wear ribbons with the class A uniform. Question is: Can a member chose to wear only his military awards and none of the CAP ribbons? Just curious.

11.1. Wear Instructions.

11.1.1. Wear only regular size ribbons and miniature size medals.

11.1.1.1. Ribbons and devices are mandatory with the USAF-style Service Dress (Class A) and USAF-style Semiformal uniforms, and optional with the USAF-style Blue Service Uniform (Class B) and Corporate-style Aviator Shirt Uniforms. When ribbons and devices are worn, all authorized ribbons will be worn on USAF-style uniforms, except:
11.1.1.1.1. Officers and NCOs. On the USAF-style uniforms, all ribbons, badges, and devices worn by adult members must fall below the top notch of the collar on the service coat or the bottom tip of the collar of shirts/blouses when those are worn without a service coat. Individuals may choose which ribbons to eliminate to meet this requirement, but are encouraged to initially remove CAP professional development ribbons to reach the required height. (Note, CAP aviation and chaplain badges remain mandatory for wear on USAF-style uniforms and ribbons may need to be removed to meet this requirement.)

Good. Guess that still makes me legal with my one and only row CAP ribbons altered from 14 -- I have that many military awards and medals and two badges.

[Chappie]

Just wondering if Cyborg is or is related to Jethro Leroy Gibbs of NCIS???   

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Just wondering if Cyborg is or is related to Jethro Leroy Gibbs of NCIS???   

From Wikipedia:

"A decorated former Marine, Gibbs is portrayed as a consummate organizer, disciplined and demanding."

I am none of those things, Sir, but I wish I were!

I will have to look into getting personality issues altered when I am due for new cybernetic implants.

[Panache]

Is resistance still futile?

[Private Investigator]

From Wikipedia:

"A decorated former Marine, ...

I always wondered what "decorations" that meant. On one hand, "All Gave Some, Some Gave All". So BTDT applies.

OTOH, some people think their 'service' was more than another Veteran even if they were in the same Squad. 

[Spartan]

Regulations aside, I feel that CAP ribbons and badges should take precedence over military awards on the CAP uniform. I'm not opposed to wearing military badges and ribbons on the CAP uniform (and have worn them in the past), but now that I have too many to wear them all, I prefer to wear CAP awards over military ones, as I feel they're more relevant to the organization and its mission. I'm sure many here will disagree.

You are correct. I strongly disagree. Wearing CAP ribbons is relevant to our mission. The wear of DoD decorations is relevant to our relationship to Big Blue and our status as the AF Aux. I did about 40 hours worth of work for my commander's commendation (CAP award), and I did 5 years of work for my Army Commendation Medal (DoD decoration). I was broken and scarred for another of my decorations. When a CAP decoration can compare to that, I will agree with your perspective.

[Storm Chaser]

When a CAP decoration can compare to that, I will agree with your perspective.

I never said that CAP awards compare or are harder to earn than military awards. With 18 years of service, I know better than that. That said, when I wear my Air Force uniform, I wear my military awards and when I wear my CAP uniform, I wear my CAP awards. While I have worn military awards with my CAP uniform in the past, I don't feel the need for everyone in CAP to know all my accomplishments in the Air Force. And if I have to choose, that's MY choice. To each it's own.

[TheTravelingAirman]

I never said that CAP awards compare or are harder to earn than military awards. With 18 years of service, I know better than that. That said, when I wear my Air Force uniform, I wear my military awards and when I wear my CAP uniform, I wear my CAP awards. While I have worn military awards with my CAP uniform in the past, I don't feel the need for everyone in CAP to know all my accomplishments in the Air Force. And if I have to choose, that's MY choice. To each it's own.

I never said that CAP awards compare or are harder to earn than military awards. With 18 years of service, I know better than that. That said, when I wear my Air Force uniform, I wear my military awards and when I wear my CAP uniform, I wear my CAP awards. While I have worn military awards with my CAP uniform in the past, I don't feel the need for everyone in CAP to know all my accomplishments in the Air Force. And if I have to choose, that's MY choice. To each it's own.

Personally, I'd rather wear only my military ribbons that signify medals. Otherwise you wind up with



Rather than



Feels less "in your face", forum posts not withstanding.

[flyboy53]

Ultimately, it should be left up to the member -- so I'm glad that there is the lapel notch rule.

For years, I only ever wore my military decorations and ribbons. The few times that I tried to wear everything, not only did I not like the image it made (because I had to spread them out to four rows), it also became very difficult to line up badges -- and it became very expensive. So, I stick to my military stuff and limit the CAP stuff to one row.

I understand the meaning and use of CAP awards, but when I joined this organization in the mid-1960s, I had the honor of serving in a squadron with four charter members from WWII and the curious thing about them was that they were always more concerned about their pilot wings (all command or senior pilots) than CAP ribbons and badges. All of them, too, only wore one row of CAP ribbons or their federal stuff.

Besides, we are a volunteer organization. More often than not, I see a decoration awarded more for political reasons than real service, awards where eligibility can be argued, and people with so much time on their hands that they compile dozens of specialty badges. I'm going to stick with the stuff (CAP and federal) that I'm proudest of. To me a CAP award means a lot less than the military stuff I earned. Also, I've found myself explaining more about my Air Force badges, awards and decorations to "gee-wiz" CAP Cadets than the CAP stuff.

As another prospective to this string, most CAP awards are simply ribbons and certificates. There are very few medals and real decorations. The historians among us will say that has more to due with the nature of the organization we are, Has anyone ever realized that the heraldry shape or design of things of a CAP Distinguished Service Medal is actually nothing but a Commendation Medal. 

[catrulz]

Besides, we are a volunteer organization. More often than not, I see a decoration awarded more for political reasons than real service, awards where eligibility can be argued, and people with so much time on their hands that they compile dozens of specialty badges. I'm going to stick with the stuff (CAP and federal) that I'm proudest of. To me a CAP award means a lot less than the military stuff I earned. Also, I've found myself explaining more about my Air Force badges, awards and decorations to "gee-wiz" CAP Cadets than the CAP stuff.

Or denied for political reasons.  I know a guy that has two silver triangles plus on his Commander's Commendation award, has received same for things other received Meritorious for.  Was recommended at least twice, and not even down graded to Commander's Comm.  Some commander's want to hold CAP members to a ridiculous military standard for commendation or above award, forgetting that members are not paid.  Recognition is our only means to show appreciation for superior performance.

I am not advocating pouring awards out of a boot.  But at the same time, we should not require loss of limb to recognize some one.  Also, if someone has performed above and beyond, it shouldn't matter that they P.O.'d someone on the Awards Committee.

By the way, I never understood why when the Amvets wear the same white flight shirt we do, why military awards cannot be worn on the CAP corporate uniform.  Yes, I know we are not the Amvets, and the Air Force provides uniform oversight.  This is why I say bring in one uniform that is military style, but non-Air Force (I still advocate for Khakis, best uniform I wore in the service).  There are already Khakis available, the Navy and Marine Corps both wear them.  Change WM's over 100% to non-Air Force (but military) style uniforms.

As both former military and NG, and since state ribbons can no longer be worn, it trims the rack down considerably anyway.  But I quite wearing ribbons entirely after I got too fluffy anyway.

[Private Investigator]

I never said that CAP awards compare or are harder to earn than military awards. With 18 years of service, I know better than that. That said, when I wear my Air Force uniform, I wear my military awards and when I wear my CAP uniform, I wear my CAP awards. While I have worn military awards with my CAP uniform in the past, I don't feel the need for everyone in CAP to know all my accomplishments in the Air Force. And if I have to choose, that's MY choice. To each it's own.

I never said that CAP awards compare or are harder to earn than military awards. With 18 years of service, I know better than that. That said, when I wear my Air Force uniform, I wear my military awards and when I wear my CAP uniform, I wear my CAP awards. While I have worn military awards with my CAP uniform in the past, I don't feel the need for everyone in CAP to know all my accomplishments in the Air Force. And if I have to choose, that's MY choice. To each it's own.

Personally, I'd rather wear only my military ribbons that signify medals. Otherwise you wind up with



Rather than



Feels less "in your face", forum posts not withstanding.

Very good points. After seeing your ribbons, the first thing I would say is; "Enjoyed Korea?" 

[Private Investigator]

Besides, we are a volunteer organization. More often than not, I see a decoration awarded more for political reasons than real service, awards where eligibility can be argued, and people with so much time on their hands that they compile dozens of specialty badges. I'm going to stick with the stuff (CAP and federal) that I'm proudest of. To me a CAP award means a lot less than the military stuff I earned. Also, I've found myself explaining more about my Air Force badges, awards and decorations to "gee-wiz" CAP Cadets than the CAP stuff.

Or denied for political reasons.  I know a guy that has two silver triangles plus on his Commander's Commendation award, has received same for things other received Meritorious for.  Was recommended at least twice, and not even down graded to Commander's Comm.  Some commander's want to hold CAP members to a ridiculous military standard for commendation or above award, forgetting that members are not paid.  Recognition is our only means to show appreciation for superior performance.

I am not advocating pouring awards out of a boot.  But at the same time, we should not require loss of limb to recognize some one.  Also, if someone has performed above and beyond, it shouldn't matter that they P.O.'d someone on the Awards Committee.

By the way, I never understood why when the Amvets wear the same white flight shirt we do, why military awards cannot be worn on the CAP corporate uniform.  Yes, I know we are not the Amvets, and the Air Force provides uniform oversight.  This is why I say bring in one uniform that is military style, but non-Air Force (I still advocate for Khakis, best uniform I wore in the service).  There are already Khakis available, the Navy and Marine Corps both wear them.  Change WM's over 100% to non-Air Force (but military) style uniforms.

As both former military and NG, and since state ribbons can no longer be worn, it trims the rack down considerably anyway.  But I quite wearing ribbons entirely after I got too fluffy anyway.

You bring up two good points. The first is every Wing has a different standard. Being on a Award Committee for many years I see lots of misunderstanding. How heroic do you have to be for a MOV or a Lifesaving Award? i.e. Do you have to get your feet wet to save somebody from drowning?

On #2 re: AMVETS just like American Legion or VFW wear ribbons on hats, caps or wherever. I too think we should authorize the ribbons you earn in the military to be worn on our aviator shirts. JMHO   

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Better yet that we would switch to a light-blue airline shirt...then we would look "distinctive" from the fine folk at AMVETS, Legion, VFW.

[Devil Doc]

Im Guilty or Lazy Either one. When I wear the dress Blues, (Not Very Often) I only wear my Military Ribbons, non are CAP Related. Since I am no at the the stage where I cannot earn anymore CAP Ribbons ATM I am going to make a Military/CAP Stack. I dont see any Find/SAR/DR ribbons in my near future, so, on with the spendage of cash already

[TheTravelingAirman]

Very good points. After seeing your ribbons, the first thing I would say is; "Enjoyed Korea?" 

Not a bad year. Didn't DEROS with anything I didn't come with, health-wise, and my photography really kicked off there. I'd do it again. Wife would prefer we wait until after the first and second anniversaries, however. The old job is gone, though. That'll change the experience 100%.