Are general weigh-ins being conducted?

[RiverAux]

Just wondering how widespread announced weigh-ins have been for all senior members that wear AF-style uniforms.

I am not talking about situations where a commander requests a weigh-in for a specific member that is thought to be out of compliance but one where every senior that wears (or plans to wear) an AF-style uniform must participate in. 

My suspicion is that few such events have been held, but would like some baseline data to see if it changes now that the regs specifically allow for weigh-ins.   

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I have served in five squadrons over the period of 20 years off-and-on.

There has never been a weigh-in at any of them.

Caveat: it wasn't necessary at the flying club senior squadron, because hardly anyone bothered with uniforms except for the occasional polo shirt with whatever trousers, and flight suits with no insignia except the leather nameplate.  I was the only one wearing USAF-style.

My first squadron was USAF-style only.

The others were a mix of USAF-style and corporate.

[Storm Chaser]

I've been fortunate enough that I've never been in a unit that had a need for weigh-ins. That said, I'm not opposed to them although I prefer the eye-ball method; if you look too big for the AF-style uniform, you probably shouldn't be wearing it regardless of what the scale says.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I've been fortunate enough that I've never been in a unit that had a need for weigh-ins. That said, I'm not opposed to them although I prefer the eye-ball method; if you look too big for the AF-style uniform, you probably shouldn't be wearing it regardless of what the scale says.

Depending on how good your Mark I Eyeball is, of course.

[Storm Chaser]

I've been fortunate enough that I've never been in a unit that had a need for weigh-ins. That said, I'm not opposed to them although I prefer the eye-ball method; if you look too big for the AF-style uniform, you probably shouldn't be wearing it regardless of what the scale says.

Depending on how good your Mark I Eyeball is, of course.

Mine are calibrated.

But in all seriousness, it's not hard to spot a uniform that's a size too small or one that appears as if it was custom made because it's so large that it doesn't look right.

[jeders]

The only weigh in I've ever done in CAP was for a SAREX to make sure that we would be ok for weight and balance. However, if any of the crew were found to be outside of the limits, a mental note could be made and a notice sent to the offending member's commander.

Personally, I have absolutely no problem with a general squadron weigh-in to establish baseline expectations. However, as an on-going thing, it feels more like a shotgun being used when precision is needed.

[lordmonar]

The only weigh in I've ever done in CAP was for a SAREX to make sure that we would be ok for weight and balance. However, if any of the crew were found to be outside of the limits, a mental note could be made and a notice sent to the offending member's commander.

Personally, I have absolutely no problem with a general squadron weigh-in to establish baseline expectations. However, as an on-going thing, it feels more like a shotgun being used when precision is needed.

+1
Just do the math.....yearly weigh ins for a 20 member squadron will take almost 2 hours (1:40) at 5minutes each.   Then there is the over head of making sure everyone is there that day. Following up for the 2-3 people who you know will say "sure I'll be there" but aren't.  Then there is the one guy who is not really part of your squadron...but is on your roles for one reason or another (we have a few guys who were stationed overseas but remain on our roles so they don't lose their status).

Most senior squadrons only meet once or twice a month....so it adds a lot of over head to a squadron.

And in my honest opinion it is not going to fix anything.   If your squadron CC is turning a blind eye to someone really out of regs.....making him weigh his members in not going to miraculously make him have that hard talk to the individual.

It will add more admin BS to us who are already doing the right thing.   Which will just make us that much more angry at the NHQ types for forcing more admin BS down on us.   Safety Compliance anyone? 

[LSThiker]

Just do the math.....yearly weigh ins for a 20 member squadron will take almost 2 hours (1:40) at 5minutes each.

Umm, 2 hours for 20 members?  I have taken a company of over 100 Soldiers through semi-annual weigh-ins in less than 30 minutes.  A weigh-in should never taken 2 hours for 20 members. 

[Ned]

[+1
Just do the math.....yearly weigh ins for a 20 member squadron will take almost 2 hours (1:40) at 5minutes each.   Then there is the over head of making sure everyone is there that day. Following up for the 2-3 people who you know will say "sure I'll be there" but aren't.  Then there is the one guy who is not really part of your squadron...but is on your roles for one reason or another (we have a few guys who were stationed overseas but remain on our roles so they don't lose their status).

There are ways to greatly minimize the time involved.  You don't need to weigh folks who don't wear AF-style, which - depending on the unit - could be 30-40% of those 20 members.  And there are several strategies that could minimize the time consumed for the remainding 12-14.  You could establish a quick rotation ("members with names begining A-C weigh in in January, D-F in February, etc.)  You might not even notice a significant disruption.

You could even have the monthly designees agree to come in 10 minutes early or stay a few minutes late and do it.

And those 2-3 people who never seem to make the weigh in for whatever reason just get restricted from wearing AF-style until they can spare you five minutes to get weighed.  Easy-peasy.

Overall, I can only agree that even a couple minutes here or there is a waste of time by definition for the majority of members who already make weight, but just knowledge that once a year or so things get verified would go a long way towards eliminating some of the angst members feel in this area.  A pre-scheduled, respectful weigh in helps keep everyone honest and on board.

I don't think the world would end either way, but I support the general concept of weigh-ins.  You and I got weighed a bizillion times by Uncle Sugar, and at some point it becomes pretty routine.  And if your unit was anything like mine, just knowing that the weigh in / APFT was coming around worked as a genuine (if perhaps all-too-temporary) motivation to work out and watch the portion size for at least some of the unit members.

But, YMMV.

[lordmonar]

Just do the math.....yearly weigh ins for a 20 member squadron will take almost 2 hours (1:40) at 5minutes each.

Umm, 2 hours for 20 members?  I have taken a company of over 100 Soldiers through semi-annual weigh-ins in less than 30 minutes.  A weigh-in should never taken 2 hours for 20 members.

So you are saying that AD/ANG soldiers are able to get this stuff together, get their shoes off, line up and get on the scale, record the results in an orderly, efficient, military manner.

Oh...by the way you also shut down your units operations during that time.

Now.....take 20 senior members.....and try the same thing.   

Like I said...I allocated 5 minutes each. 

CAP is just not as efficient as the military.   

[Eclipse]

Waive the weekly whining session about wing and do something useful that week.

This is why thee's no justification to only be meeting twice a month - there's plenty to do, just no one is doing it.

What will it fix?  Attitudes.

[lordmonar]

+1
Just do the math.....yearly weigh ins for a 20 member squadron will take almost 2 hours (1:40) at 5minutes each.   Then there is the over head of making sure everyone is there that day. Following up for the 2-3 people who you know will say "sure I'll be there" but aren't.  Then there is the one guy who is not really part of your squadron...but is on your roles for one reason or another (we have a few guys who were stationed overseas but remain on our roles so they don't lose their status).

There are ways to greatly minimize the time involved.  You don't need to weigh folks who don't wear AF-style, which - depending on the unit - could be 30-40% of those 20 members.  And there are several strategies that could minimize the time consumed for the remainding 12-14.  You could establish a quick rotation ("members with names begining A-C weigh in in January, D-F in February, etc.)  You might not even notice a significant disruption.

You could even have the monthly designees agree to come in 10 minutes early or stay a few minutes late and do it.

And those 2-3 people who never seem to make the weigh in for whatever reason just get restricted from wearing AF-style until they can spare you five minutes to get weighed.  Easy-peasy.

Overall, I can only agree that even a couple minutes here or there is a waste of time by definition for the majority of members who already make weight, but just knowledge that once a year or so things get verified would go a long way towards eliminating some of the angst members feel in this area.  A pre-scheduled, respectful weigh in helps keep everyone honest and on board.

I don't think the world would end either way, but I support the general concept of weigh-ins.  You and I got weighed a bizillion times by Uncle Sugar, and at some point it becomes pretty routine.  And if your unit was anything like mine, just knowing that the weigh in / APFT was coming around worked as a genuine (if perhaps all-too-temporary) motivation to work out and watch the portion size for at least some of the unit members.

But, YMMV.

Oh I agree......I'm not saying that units should not do weigh ins.....I'm just afraid of how "a good idea" sometimes gets out of hand.  Safety Compliance is a good idea.   If you are not compliant you can't play......got it...no problem.   It is the "we just ran the numbers and we want the wing to be 100% compliant every month!" sort of BS.

Capt Joe is doing a good job....his people are in regs, those that are close are asked to step on the scale just to keep everyone honest.  But Wing King Tom wants to "make sure" everyone is in regs......next thing you know...it is quarterly weigh in reports. 

I'm looking to avoid that slippery slope.

[Eclipse]

Oh...by the way you also shut down your units operations during that time.

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((*snicker*))

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Yes, because the average CAP unit is engaged in hypercritical time-sensitive
tasks with life and property at risk at any given moment.

Do the safety briefing while people are waiting in line.  It will distract them from
the springs flying all over the place.



FYI - Shoes stay on - 3lb allowance for clothes.

Also, there is no "slippery slope" - that's another excuse for when people don't want to do something.

[lordmonar]

No.....but if my 20 senior members are lined up in the hall in their running cloths holding their shoes in their hands.....they are not supervising the cadets, doing paper work, and other things that have to get done during the meetings.

It is easy to shut down a military squadron for a couple of hours once in quarter to do this sort of stuff.....we did it all the time when I was on AD.

We were either a 40 hours a week sort of organization or a 24-7 operation.

But CAP is a 3 hour a week operation.

Every time you take 30 minutes from a member...that is a MAJOR percentage of his time he is devoting to CAP.

And unlike the AD.....it is a little harder to say to a CAP member "well you just stay at work and catch up on all the work you missed because of the mandatory weigh in we had to do this morning".

[Ned]

.....next thing you know...it is quarterly weigh in reports. 

I'm looking to avoid that slippery slope.

I hear you, Brother Patrick. 

I actually had to respond to concerns about scale calibrations, maintaining the calibration records, training scale operators (honestly!), HIPAA concerns about keeping records with "protected health information," necessary eServices permissions, etc.

As a long-term government employee at the local, state, and federal level I though I knew a thing or two about bureaucratic functions and concerns.  But CAP continues to surprise me.

[Eclipse]

Running clothes?  Cadets?

A minute ago we were talking about a senior squadron.

In the time it took to have this conversation, you're done.

[Garibaldi]

.....next thing you know...it is quarterly weigh in reports. 

I'm looking to avoid that slippery slope.

I hear you, Brother Patrick. 

I actually had to respond to concerns about scale calibrations, maintaining the calibration records, training scale operators (honestly!), HIPAA concerns about keeping records with "protected health information," necessary eServices permissions, etc.

As a long-term government employee at the local, state, and federal level I though I knew a thing or two about bureaucratic functions and concerns.  But CAP continues to surprise me.

CAP's bureaucracy and politics continues to both baffle and amuse me.

[Eclipse]

^ Funny how "no" rhymes with "status quo".

[lordmonar]

Running clothes?  Cadets?

A minute ago we were talking about a senior squadron.

In the time it took to have this conversation, you're done.

I never said "senior squadron"  I said a 20 member squadron....that is a squadron with 20 senior members....or were you thinking of just applying these weigh ins to Senior Squadrons.....i.e. just seniors no cadets?

And no......in the time it took me to have this conversation......we may have gotten all the seniors weighed....but it will take me hours on the phone and in the E-mails getting everyone to the squadron.

It will take me a 30 minute phone call from wing explaining "why my report was incomplete".  It will take me 20 minutes at each wing staff meeting listening to the Personnel Officer read 10 slides on how we are meeting our weigh in goal.

Or I can take 10 minutes to talk to someone who is not meeting the regs and fix it more or less on the spot.

[Eclipse]

Running clothes?  Cadets?

A minute ago we were talking about a senior squadron.

In the time it took to have this conversation, you're done.

I never said "senior squadron"  I said a 20 member squadron....

You disagree with yourself...

Most senior squadrons only meet once or twice a month....so it adds a lot of over head to a squadron.