Special Appointments for Advanced Grade Question.

[brackins23]

Are the special appointments for advanced grade still allowed? I have read and showed the CC this section of CAPR 35-5. I am a new member and just completed level one, a retired E-7 Flight Engineer, I also have a B.S. Aviation Degree. I am told that this is not applicable and I must wait 6 months, but the regulation was updated in January 2014. Am I missing something?

3-5. Regular and Reserve Senior Noncommissioned Officers of the Armed Forces. Regular, Reserve and National Guard Senior Noncommissioned Officers of the Armed Forces or Coast Guard of the United States, active or retired, in the grade of E-7 through E-9 may be advanced to the CAP grade shown in Figure 4 below in recognition of their military knowledge and experience. Such promotions are neither automatic nor mandatory, but are at the discretion of the promoting authority outlined in paragraph 1-5. Members qualifying for this type of promotion must meet the minimum eligibility criteria outlined in paragraph 3-1. NOTE: The unit commander will initiate initial promotion to officer grade based on prior military service only where proper documentation for that grade exists (a copy of DD Form 214, appropriate National Guard form, military identification card or promotion order showing the grade requested is considered sufficient).

NCO Grade CAP Grade Authorized
E-7 Second Lieutenant
E-8 First Lieutenant
E-9 Captain

[arajca]

The key words here are "at the discretion fot he promotion authority". It is not uncommon to have folks seeking advanced grade demonstrate their willingness to put their skills to use to benefit CAP. 6 months is a common 'trial' period.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

The key words here are "at the discretion fot he promotion authority". It is not uncommon to have folks seeking advanced grade demonstrate their willingness to put their skills to use to benefit CAP. 6 months is a common 'trial' period.

So he should wait 6 months for promotion to 2nd Lt based on his E-7 grade. That's the TIG for 2nd Lt for duty promotion. Kind of makes the advanced option seem silly.

[CAPAPRN]

If the squadron CC is going to wait 6 months you should just do a duty promotion as a special promotion will just slow things down. A duty promotion to 2LT should just be a local approval, where as a special promotion is not.

[Panache]

I know several CCs who are hesitant to put in the paperwork for an advanced promotion until they get a handle on the person.  They don't want to be the once responsible for getting somebody fast-promoted to X if the person turns out to be a liability.

In my experience, those CCs usually wait about six months or so.

[Ed Bos]

Are the special appointments for advanced grade still allowed? I have read and showed the CC this section of CAPR 35-5. I am a new member and just completed level one, a retired E-7 Flight Engineer, I also have a B.S. Aviation Degree. I am told that this is not applicable and I must wait 6 months, but the regulation was updated in January 2014. Am I missing something?

3-5. Regular and Reserve Senior Noncommissioned Officers of the Armed Forces. Regular, Reserve and National Guard Senior Noncommissioned Officers of the Armed Forces or Coast Guard of the United States, active or retired, in the grade of E-7 through E-9 may be advanced to the CAP grade shown in Figure 4 below in recognition of their military knowledge and experience. Such promotions are neither automatic nor mandatory, but are at the discretion of the promoting authority outlined in paragraph 1-5. Members qualifying for this type of promotion must meet the minimum eligibility criteria outlined in paragraph 3-1. NOTE: The unit commander will initiate initial promotion to officer grade based on prior military service only where proper documentation for that grade exists (a copy of DD Form 214, appropriate National Guard form, military identification card or promotion order showing the grade requested is considered sufficient).

NCO Grade CAP Grade Authorized
E-7 Second Lieutenant
E-8 First Lieutenant
E-9 Captain

Welcome to CAP. In my unit I would follow the regulation as written and promote immediately, since it doesn't have a significant impact on my payroll or benefits budget. 

While some folks put new Senior Members on "probation," I find that the contribution of a 2d Lt with 3 months in CAP is almost-universally equivalent to Senior Members without grade that have been in CAP for 3 months. This is, of course, under the working assumption that it's the same person in either case, and they would need the same on-the-job training no matter what grade they wore.

TL/DR: Thanks for your service, welcome to the club, and try not the let the weenies get you down.

[Flying Pig]

I never had an issue with giving someone the advanced promotions they rate.  I could advance promote you to Lt Col..... if you are a goof ball I can start the process to boot you just like I could if you were a 2Lt.  If I can toss you a bone to motivate you a little in the beginning, fine.    I just make it very clear how rank works in CAP.  Ive had a number of new members who were LTCs immediately because of military service.  Just make sure they understand the program.    If a guy comes in as an E7, make sure he understands CAP as an organization and get him going. 

brackins23... that being said, your particular Sq Commander may run his unit differently.  If he does choose to wait... just hang out and enjoy the program.  The bars or leaves on your collar are really irrelevant to what you can or cant do in CAP.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I can think of two diametrically-opposed situations on advanced grade.

My first squadron took on a new member who was a pilot (instructor, I think), and had a mega-brainiac degree in Aeronautical Engineering from Embry-Riddle University.

He insisted on coming up through the ranks, and I think he was a better officer (and person) for it.

The other one (different unit) got Captain (and very greased-wheels promotion to Major) just for being a CPA.  He knew naught about CAP, the Air Force or really aviation (he rarely even bothered to wear the golf shirt uniform and did not know shineola about C&C's or even our grade structure), but he was a whiz of a number-cruncher so he made a lot of friends at Wing real fast.

The first guy I liked a lot.  The second...well...

[LSThiker]

Promotions are at the discretion of the commander.  The best is to talk with about it.  Ultimately, it is his decision even if it sucks for you.

With that being said, I could see the waiting 6 months for something like major or captain, but 2d Lt is hardly worth the effort.

[Private Investigator]

Are the special appointments for advanced grade still allowed? I have read and showed the CC this section of CAPR 35-5. I am a new member and just completed level one, a retired E-7 Flight Engineer, I also have a B.S. Aviation Degree. I am told that this is not applicable and I must wait 6 months, but the regulation was updated in January 2014. Am I missing something?

3-5. Regular and Reserve Senior Noncommissioned Officers of the Armed Forces. Regular, Reserve and National Guard Senior Noncommissioned Officers of the Armed Forces or Coast Guard of the United States, active or retired, in the grade of E-7 through E-9 may be advanced to the CAP grade shown in Figure 4 below in recognition of their military knowledge and experience. Such promotions are neither automatic nor mandatory, but are at the discretion of the promoting authority outlined in paragraph 1-5. Members qualifying for this type of promotion must meet the minimum eligibility criteria outlined in paragraph 3-1. NOTE: The unit commander will initiate initial promotion to officer grade based on prior military service only where proper documentation for that grade exists (a copy of DD Form 214, appropriate National Guard form, military identification card or promotion order showing the grade requested is considered sufficient).

NCO Grade CAP Grade Authorized
E-7 Second Lieutenant
E-8 First Lieutenant
E-9 Captain

Welcome to CAP. In my unit I would follow the regulation as written and promote immediately, since it doesn't have a significant impact on my payroll or benefits budget. 

While some folks put new Senior Members on "probation," I find that the contribution of a 2d Lt with 3 months in CAP is almost-universally equivalent to Senior Members without grade that have been in CAP for 3 months. This is, of course, under the working assumption that it's the same person in either case, and they would need the same on-the-job training no matter what grade they wore.

TL/DR: Thanks for your service, welcome to the club, and try not the let the weenies get you down.

+1 have fun  :clap:

[Private Investigator]

Promotions are at the discretion of the commander.  The best is to talk with about it.  Ultimately, it is his decision even if it sucks for you.

With that being said, I could see the waiting 6 months for something like major or captain, but 2d Lt is hardly worth the effort.

Some Commanders are sily and immature, JMHO. When I was an IG I visited a Squadron that just got in a sharp college professor as their AE. He rated Captain BUT the Commander did not want to promote anyone to his grade of Captain because new guys might pass him up eventually. 

[LSThiker]

Some Commanders are sily and immature, JMHO. When I was an IG I visited a Squadron that just got in a sharp college professor as their AE. He rated Captain BUT the Commander did not want to promote anyone to his grade of Captain because new guys might pass him up eventually. 

That there are.  But really no different than the military or the corporate world unfortunately.

[Eclipse]

Some Commanders are sily and immature, JMHO. When I was an IG I visited a Squadron that just got in a sharp college professor as their AE. He rated Captain BUT the Commander did not want to promote anyone to his grade of Captain because new guys might pass him up eventually. 

Agreed, >this< and similar examples are silly and immature, and I've seen similar behavior.

However, with that said, I have personally never met anyone (who wasn't prior CAP) who was much use or value within the first six months of membership to
the point that the would be deserving of advanced grade, regardless of military, pilot, teacher, whatever.  The same holds true for most
new employees in a corporate setting as well.

CAP is a complex beast - not "hard", just a lot of moving pieces, by the time you get all your pre-reqs done, get into various
systems, and have even 1/2 a clue, it's 2-3 months unless you are a high-speed exception.  Rare is the pilot that F5's in less then 6 months,
or that is able to actually contribute much mission or O-ride wise in less then a year.

6 months is a good minimum time to see if a person is going to stick around and engage at a level approaching value.

For those who want to say it's "meaningless", that's fine, tracer's go both ways.

[MSG Mac]

The SCAG is considering eliminating the NCO advanced promotions. So better to take advantage of the opportunity now, rather than later.

[Майор Хаткевич]

E7 is 2d Lt. Not much advance...

[MSG Mac]

E7 is 2d Lt. Not much advance...

Still the appointment is to recognize RM  military leadership. While the MSG needs to complete Level I, he should be submitted as soon as he does.

[Eclipse]

How is that relevant to CAP,  especially at that level, and in the first 6 months of membership?

Aren't promotions supposed to be acceptance of additional responsibility, not reward for past work?

[DoubleSecret]

Promotions are at the discretion of the commander.  The best is to talk with about it.  Ultimately, it is his decision even if it sucks for you.

That works both ways.  Commanders who intend to play the delay game need to let people know this before they let them sign up.  It's a breach of integrity not to.  I've seen units do the "you're eligible for this and this" and then when they're on the books ... "discretion" becomes the watchword.  They could have used their discretion to be honest with the military member/retiree/veteran and said "I don't support advanced promotions even if you're eligible for them, so I'm going to use my discretion.  Still want to join?"

There's an integrity issue there.  There's also a moral obligation not to abuse discretion. 

It's a disservice to CAP to pad unit numbers and then shaft the person and potentially lose someone who feels they're being treated unfairly.  If people walk away with a poor experience, they're certainly not going to tell the CAP story we want them to tell. 

Sure, the apologists can scream "service before self," but integrity comes first.

Or does it?

[lordmonar]

How is that relevant to CAP,  especially at that level, and in the first 6 months of membership?

Aren't promotions supposed to be acceptance of additional responsibility, not reward for past work?

If that were true......then there would be a whole lot more advanced promotions during initial membership and a whole lot less Lt Cols after 10 years or service.

[Eclipse]

How is that relevant to CAP,  especially at that level, and in the first 6 months of membership?

Aren't promotions supposed to be acceptance of additional responsibility, not reward for past work?

If that were true......then there would be a whole lot more advanced promotions during initial membership and a whole lot less Lt Cols after 10 years or service.

Well, that's certainly the rhetoric, anyway.  One can always hope.