College Choice: Senior or Cadet

[Mitchell 1969]

Several years ago a concept floated around NHQ to allow former cadets with the Earhart test for the Spaatz as a senior member. This was during the Viet Nam war era and so many cadets went military after turning 18. if i remember the senior member that earned the Earhart could take the Spaatz test up to age 25. The idea actually came from Commander CAP-USAF.

There were at least 2 versions of that concept, but they were substantially the same. STP and ACT. "Senior Transition Program" and "Advanced Cadet Transition." I was in the latter.

The deal was...must be 18, with at least Mitchell. Appointment was to WO or CWO, depending on award held. One could advance to CWO. We were considered to be officers, definitely were Senior Members. But...we could also complete additional cadet achievements, test for Spaatz, apply for Cadet Special Activities.

I don't think 25 was possible though. The deal then was one could stay as a cadet (or ACT senior) until first renewal date past 21st birthday. In theory, that could be day before 22nd birthday, but I had worked out a way to do it until day before my 23rd.

I got into it late, though. I was a 20-year old C/LtCol, with time as Wing and Region CAC Chairman. I'd been to Flying Encampment (powered license), been on IACE twice, had been cadet commander at two different squadrons, been on Wing Staff 18 months, and served as Assistant Tactical Officer at an encampment. I was a "Senior Member in cadet's clothing," in essence. All that was left was the Spaatz. I got offered a CP Officer position at a Group HQ so I went ACT and became a WO.

About 3 months later I was asked to take over as a Squadron Commander. A week later, I turned 21, almost died from peritonitis, got a job promotion and suddenly realized that I was done with being a cadet. Even the Spaatz wasn't enough to interest me. So, I asked the Group Commander to put me in for 1LT.

But, the point of all this is to second what Ned wrote in his post - my after-age 18/after-high school cadet years were my best cadet years.

[flyboy53]

Although it has been well said many times already, stay as a cadet and earn that Spaatz. You can't go back and you may live with the regret of never striving to achieve that pinnacle honor.

Achieving that level will make it easier for you once you transition to senior member status. Not before

[TCMajor]

Cadet Rose,

   Stay a cadet and go to Norwich!  Your a great cadet!  There is a very strong CAP presence there, as you know, and many of them are working towards Spaatz including my son.  I have had the honor of serving alongside many great Norwich grads over my military career.  As stated earlier, A&M is a very big school and the cadets are not as large a part of it as you would think (the M stands for mechanical, not military, I believe). However, they do have a big maritime side if you are leaning that way.  Galveston is not a bad place to spend winters.   VMI is also very much worth a look.  Feel free to talk with me more over the winter.  Also, several Norwich cadets will be attending or helping run RCLS this year.  They will be a good source of information.

Good Luck

[addo1]

I don't know anything about them but here is the squadron info for College Station, TX:
GEORGE H.W. BUSH COMPOSITE SQUADRON
Unit Contact: Eddie D Gose
Contact Phone: 979-229-3660
Contact e-mail: e-gose@tamus.edu
Meeting Address: 6120 EAST HIGHWAY 21,COULTER FIELD FBO
BRYAN, TX 77808
Unit Web Address: http://www.tx041cap.org
Meeting Time: 1900 TUESDAY
Charter Number: SWR TX041
Unit Notes: 1ST THRU 3RD WEEKS AT COULTER FIELD. FOURTH WEEK AT TEEX DIASTER CITY. SEE WEBSITE FOR DETAILED INFO.

I'm not part of this squadron, but am a member of the Corps of Cadets at Texas A&M here in College Station. I can answer questions regarding the local program. We also do occasional activities with our 100-something cadets/SMs in the Corps.

[addo1]

Cadet Rose,

   Stay a cadet and go to Norwich!  Your a great cadet!  There is a very strong CAP presence there, as you know, and many of them are working towards Spaatz including my son.  I have had the honor of serving alongside many great Norwich grads over my military career.  As stated earlier, A&M is a very big school and the cadets are not as large a part of it as you would think (the M stands for mechanical, not military, I believe). However, they do have a big maritime side if you are leaning that way.  Galveston is not a bad place to spend winters.   VMI is also very much worth a look.  Feel free to talk with me more over the winter.  Also, several Norwich cadets will be attending or helping run RCLS this year.  They will be a good source of information.

Good Luck

I would recommend this: visit them all. I visited each of the Senior Military Institutes and found that the Corps of Cadets at Texas A&M was the best for me. Only by truly visiting them all can you find which one suits your desires and goals the best.

[TCMajor]

Agreed. Each school and it's cadets have their own unique personality.  Don't forget to look at Virginia Tech if you are looking at studying any of the hard sciences or engineering.  Last count, I believe they are still the largest cadet group, but VMI has them squarely in their sights.  North Georgia is still pure Army, so if your thinking Air Force don't bother with them. 

[Jaison009]

I had a girlfriend that was a cadet (eventually became an officer) at VT. She never had anything bad to say about the Cadet Corps.

Agreed. Each school and it's cadets have their own unique personality.  Don't forget to look at Virginia Tech if you are looking at studying any of the hard sciences or engineering.  Last count, I believe they are still the largest cadet group, but VMI has them squarely in their sights.  North Georgia is still pure Army, so if your thinking Air Force don't bother with them.

[skymaster]

Agreed. Each school and it's cadets have their own unique personality.  Don't forget to look at Virginia Tech if you are looking at studying any of the hard sciences or engineering.  Last count, I believe they are still the largest cadet group, but VMI has them squarely in their sights.  North Georgia is still pure Army, so if your thinking Air Force don't bother with them.

While the ROTC program at North Georgia is ONLY Army ROTC, and the greater majority of their commissionees are into the Active Army or Army National Guard, they absolutely DO commission people into other branches, especially the Marine Corps and Navy. They even commission occasionally commission people into the Air Force, although the occasional Air Force personnel commissioned out of North Georgia tend to be those headed into assignments in Special Operations, due to the heavy emphasis on Airborne and Air Assault training at the school, or to Med School because of the outstanding pre-med program, or to the Joint Engineering Dual Degree Program with Georgia Tech. Here is a photo of one of the recent Winter Commissioning Ceremonies. The Officer performing the part of the swearing in duties in the photo is Maj Gen Britt, Commander of the Georgia Army National Guard. Note the two Marine commissionees in the left of the photo.

[skymaster]

Echoing the comments of several of the members of this board, I recommend checking out all 6 of the Senior Military Colleges, as all 6 (and even the Service Academies) each have their own unique culture, traditions, training methods, and strengths. I would not dismiss any of them without doing a bit of in-depth research into all of them, with an eye towards what kind of career is intended after graduation. North Georgia's strengths are in the production of career combat arms citizen-soldiers, and in medical career preparation.
Their pre-med program is second to none, with 100% of those who complete the program qualifying for acceptance to the Medical College of Georgia, and the Nursing and Physical Therapy Programs at North Georgia are amongst the best in the nation (especially for those who plan a military career in those fields).

I will also say this of North Georgia: of the 6 Senior Military Colleges, it is the easiest of the 6 to gain admission to, and the easiest to qualify for financial aid for (especially as a member of the Corps of Cadets), but it is also one of the hardest and most academically challenging ones to complete the military program at. Work that would get you an "A" or high "B" at more civilian school like the University of Georgia, will likely get you only a low "C" or a high "D" at North Georgia. The military program there is intense to say the least, intended to break you down, and build you back up into a career military officer, schooled in small unit tactics, absolutely ready to lead in the heat of battle. It will test your mettle in ways that you never thought possible, and you will learn to exercise muscles you never knew you had, as well as use axons that you never knew existed. You will be PTed till you drop, and your character, your appearance, and your very being will be polished to a fine sheen. After graduation from this excellent military program, you will be ready as you will ever be, not only for the battlefield, but also for the boardroom, or the graduate-level classroom.

To be perfectly blunt, if your military career plans are of the "one and done" variety, where you do the absolute minimum amount of military study, seeing your post college military career as a one-term stepping stone to a job with the airlines, then North Georgia is probably not for you. But if you see military service as an awesome responsibility, a career unlike no other, and you wish to be "the tip of the spear", our nation's "sword and shield", and a citizen-soldier like those who helped found this great nation, then maybe you should give North Georgia at least some consideration.

[TCMajor]

Skymaster,

   Great post.  North Georgia is a great school.  Being a retired soldier, they are very near and dear to my heart.  Their high performance at LDAC every year is a clear reflection on the excellence of the program. 

To further confuse the search.  Let's not forget the 5 state maritime colleges for those looking for seagoing careers.  There should be a thread in the cadet section about college commissioning programs.

[skymaster]

Skymaster,

   Great post.  North Georgia is a great school.  Being a retired soldier, they are very near and dear to my heart.  Their high performance at LDAC every year is a clear reflection on the excellence of the program. 

To further confuse the search.  Let's not forget the 5 state maritime colleges for those looking for seagoing careers.  There should be a thread in the cadet section about college commissioning programs.

Thank you, TC Major, for the compliment on my alma mater.  Also, I agree wholeheartedly that there should be a thread of some sort on college commissioning programs, as part of what we do as leaders overseeing the Cadet Programs mission of the CAP includes "helping to develop dynamic aerospace leaders" through a structured cadet program. CAP members of college age can still participate in the Cadet Program right up till their 21st birthday, and not all of them necessarily plan on attending the U.S. Air Force Academy or even necessarily becoming only Air Force officers. Some with military interests might like to explore careers in the other ground and maritime based branches as well.

[HGjunkie]

Where's that AF Blues comic about the "oldest lieutenant I've ever seen"...

[Panache]

It's hard to tell on a phone, but is that soldier wearing CW5 insignia?

(and did I just ruin the joke?)

[TCMajor]

Roger that Panache.  Judging by the color of his lid, he is most likely a 180 series (Special Forces)CW-5. 

[JC004]

Skymaster,

   Great post.  North Georgia is a great school.  Being a retired soldier, they are very near and dear to my heart.  Their high performance at LDAC every year is a clear reflection on the excellence of the program. 

To further confuse the search.  Let's not forget the 5 state maritime colleges for those looking for seagoing careers.  There should be a thread in the cadet section about college commissioning programs.

Thank you, TC Major, for the compliment on my alma mater.  Also, I agree wholeheartedly that there should be a thread of some sort on college commissioning programs, as part of what we do as leaders overseeing the Cadet Programs mission of the CAP includes "helping to develop dynamic aerospace leaders" through a structured cadet program. CAP members of college age can still participate in the Cadet Program right up till their 21st birthday, and not all of them necessarily plan on attending the U.S. Air Force Academy or even necessarily becoming only Air Force officers. Some with military interests might like to explore careers in the other ground and maritime based branches as well.

I've always heard exceptional things about North Georgia over the years, meeting CAP folks from there and such.  I agree with checking into all of them.  That's what I would have done, had I not had a spine that hates me (and asthma after age 12).    

[Johnny Yuma]

I went SM immediately after my 18th birthday and still don't regret it. At the time we had a squadron CC who was incompetent and had it in for several cadets in my unit, one of which was my brother (another story in and of itself). While I was trying very hard to stay out of the fracas the CC decided i was guilty by association and I went to the dark side as soon as I got my Mitchell. I remained a SM for a couple years through a second incompetent CC and left CAP in 1991. I rejoined 10 years later and been back in ever since.

From what I've seen, usually once a cadet goes to college his career as a cadet get derailed unless he's got a LOT of support to continue, especially if the cadet is leaving home for school. Of the numerous cadets I've seen go to college in only 3 instances have I seen a cadet continue to progress through the program successfully. Of those, 2 of them had a found a CAP "family" that effectively adopted them and helped keep them motivated on both school and CAP.

I now I'm one guy paddling against the current here, but I've done that before.

[NM SAR]

I gotta echo the sentiments of the majority: stay cadet as long as you can. I had to go FO, due to a break in service, and it was weird. As people have already pointed out, many of the older Senior Members will likely treat you as a cadet even if you're not, and you'll have more fun as a cadet.

On a side note, when you do transition from cadet to SM, move squadrons. There's just too much force of habit; both the cadets and SM's of your old unit are used to you being a cadet, and will likely continue to treat you as such.

[MSG Mac]

Whether you turn Senior or remain a cadet, if your current squadron is too far away that you won't be an active member transfer to a unit you can be active in. My unit currently has several cadet and senior members who missed advancing because they go to school several hundred miles away and think their not transferring is a sign of loyalty. One got his Spaatz the day before his 21st birthday, another left himself only one try and missed the Spaatz by 1 point.