Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
September 20, 2017, 09:03:37 AM
Home Help Login Register
News:

CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: NCO Program Launched
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 48 Print
Author Topic: NCO Program Launched  (Read 80639 times)
ProdigalJim
Seasoned Member

Posts: 497
Unit: MER-VA-082

Aviation Week
« on: October 21, 2013, 06:36:18 PM »

http://www.capvolunteernow.com/todays-features/?restructured_cap_nco_corps_to_mirror_air_force_structure_for_progress_prom otion&show=news&newsID=17563

"Until now, CAP’s NCO structure allowed only former active-duty NCOs to be a part of the corps, with no upgrade training for promotion within the ranks. The newly approved corps structure will mirror the Air Force NCO force structure, with an established process to promote and develop NCOs."

But then...no more details.

Anyone know anything further?
Logged
Jim Mathews, Maj., CAP
Commander, VAWG Group 3
My Mitchell Has Four Digits...
Storm Chaser
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,676

« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2013, 06:43:54 PM »

I like the general idea of having a true CAP NCO corps with its own requirements, training, professional development, progression and duty assignments, among others. But in order for it to be truly successful, I think the officer corps would also have to be restructured and roles need to be defined. Otherwise, what would be the difference between an NCO and an officer if they can both do the same things?
Logged
NIN
VIP

Posts: 4,567
Unit: of issue

« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2013, 06:44:55 PM »

Odd that the first I heard of this great announcement was an email from a friend of mine in the ATC across the pond.....
Logged
Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
vento
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 689

« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2013, 07:38:17 PM »

... and I first heard about it from Facebook. Link here
Logged
RiverAux
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 10,903

« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2013, 07:43:14 PM »

Oh, I expect its what we've been hearing about for years -- some ways for NCOs to get promoted, but nothing addressing the real issue which is what they're actually supposed to be doing for CAP thats unique.  I'd be real surprised if we see anything other than changes to the promotion regulations. 
Logged
a2capt
300,000th Post Author
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,097
Unit: pǝʇɹǝʌuı

« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2013, 07:51:53 PM »

Col. Myrick leaked it at the CAWG Conference earlier this month, too.
Logged
tkelley004
Recruit

Posts: 29
Unit: PCR-WA-015

« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2013, 07:53:47 PM »

But remember a CAP CMSgt is out ranked by a 21 year old kid High School grad with a private pilot license who just completed level 1 and been in CAP less than 3 months. Be sure to render that salute...

Silly to have an NCO corps where the entry as an "officer" is so low. The current CMSGTAF must not have hated the idea as much as the last one did, heard when I was on active duty that was what prevented anything moving forward before now. I love the idea, but with a major rework of of how you become a CAP officer, but that did not happen.

Can't wait to take a look at this.. maybe I'll turn in my sliver oak leaves for SMSgt stripes and then become a chief! No more command assignments "Sorry I'm an NCO" :)
Logged
Tim Kelley, Lt Col, CAP
Commander
Bellingham Composite Squadron
Retired USAF SMSgt
SAREXinNY
Forum Regular

Posts: 123
Unit: NER-NY

« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2013, 08:32:15 PM »

I think it's a great idea.  There are a LOT of former/retired NCOs out there that would love to carry over their rank yet still have some type of PD program to follow.  Not everyone wants to be a staff officer or have ambitions of being a commander.  There are a lot of SMs I've met who want to just help out in an admin type role.  I hope this is rolled out properly and has well thought out regs.  I'm intrigued!
Logged
NCRblues
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,477
Unit: lostiguess

« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2013, 08:33:11 PM »

No more command assignments "Sorry I'm an NCO" :)

Issue #1

Logged
In god we trust, all others we run through NCIC
Walkman
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,229
Unit: GLR-MI-009

Eurekaville Advertising & Design
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2013, 08:36:07 PM »

Even if the new policy doesn't go as far as some would like, I'm still going to give it a thumbs-up as a good step forward.
Logged
Майор Хаткевич
200,000th Post Author
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,075
Unit: GLR-IL-049

« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2013, 08:53:50 PM »

Even if the new policy doesn't go as far as some would like, I'm still going to give it a thumbs-up as a good step forward.

To What End?
Logged
lordmonar
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 10,576

« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2013, 08:55:46 PM »

But remember a CAP CMSgt is out ranked by a 21 year old kid High School grad with a private pilot license who just completed level 1 and been in CAP less than 3 months. Be sure to render that salute...

Silly to have an NCO corps where the entry as an "officer" is so low. The current CMSGTAF must not have hated the idea as much as the last one did, heard when I was on active duty that was what prevented anything moving forward before now. I love the idea, but with a major rework of of how you become a CAP officer, but that did not happen.

Can't wait to take a look at this.. maybe I'll turn in my sliver oak leaves for SMSgt stripes and then become a chief! No more command assignments "Sorry I'm an NCO" :)
How is that any different then a real CMSgt being outranked by some 22 year old kid with a BA is Left Handed Basket Weaving, and only six months in the service?
Logged
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
lordmonar
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 10,576

« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2013, 08:56:57 PM »

No more command assignments "Sorry I'm an NCO" :)

Issue #1
It's one of the reasons why I traded in my Oak Leaves for my MSgt Stripes.
Logged
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
lordmonar
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 10,576

« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2013, 08:59:28 PM »

Even if the new policy doesn't go as far as some would like, I'm still going to give it a thumbs-up as a good step forward.

To What End?
Not knowing what this program is....but maybe it is step one of transforming all the ranks...i.e. make it easier to just be an enlisted puke for the rank and file....and make it harder to be an officer.

It a step in the right direction for those who want to stay enlisted....but would also like to progress...being a SSgt forever is a little boring.  :)
Logged
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,823

« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2013, 08:59:39 PM »

How is that any different then a real CMSgt being outranked by some 22 year old kid with a BA is Left Handed Basket Weaving, and only six months in the service?

At least in that case both parties have had some military training, and they have a defined lane of authority, purpose and function, not to mention
both have legal weight of authority and responsibility.

Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

ProdigalJim
Seasoned Member

Posts: 497
Unit: MER-VA-082

Aviation Week
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2013, 09:02:03 PM »

No more command assignments "Sorry I'm an NCO" :)

Issue #1

Indeed.

I can see a really strong role for the new NCOs in the cadet program. In Operations, however, I'm not so sure. We don't have a large force of enlisted to lead, guide and mentor (which seems to me to be one of the major strengths NCOs bring to the table).

A search of my previous posts finds that I am one of those who believes that an overhaul of our officer qualifications is long overdue. But I'm not a fan of the cliquish-ness that could result from rolling out the NCO program without the concurrent officer progression overhaul.

Logged
Jim Mathews, Maj., CAP
Commander, VAWG Group 3
My Mitchell Has Four Digits...
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,823

« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2013, 09:03:37 PM »

No more command assignments "Sorry I'm an NCO" :)

Issue #1
It's one of the reasons why I traded in my Oak Leaves for my MSgt Stripes.

That statement beautifully encapsulates why the NCO / Officer paradigm will never function in an all-volunteer
organization.
Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

lordmonar
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 10,576

« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2013, 09:07:25 PM »

No more command assignments "Sorry I'm an NCO" :)

Issue #1
It's one of the reasons why I traded in my Oak Leaves for my MSgt Stripes.

That statement beautifully encapsulates why the NCO / Officer paradigm will never function in an all-volunteer
organization.
Why?  I perfectly encapsulates a volunteer organization..."Want to help and be there....but I don't want to be in charge."  "Here you go Sarge.....have fun."  "I'm really motivated and want to be in charge....oh and here are my credentials"....."thanks for Joining LT".

It won't function so long as you force each and every individual into your little mold of what we should be.
Logged
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
shuman14
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 919
Unit: NHQ-996

« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2013, 09:13:41 PM »

I wonder if this would then open up CAP members to attend the USAF NCO Academy for courses like the Airman Leadership School and such similar to CAP officers being able to attend USAF professional development courses.
Logged
Joseph J. Clune
Major, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 -1998, 2000 - Present     CAP (National Patron) 2013 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000       USCGAux: 2004 - Present
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,823

« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2013, 09:13:47 PM »

Why?  I perfectly encapsulates a volunteer organization..."Want to help and be there....but I don't want to be in charge."  "Here you go Sarge.....have fun."  "I'm really motivated and want to be in charge....oh and here are my credentials"....."thanks for Joining LT".

It won't function so long as you force each and every individual into your little mold of what we should be.

No, your meaningless grade doesn't absolve you of responsibilities or give you the expectation that
I'll carry more weight because of my meaningless grade.

That's what's apparently lost here.  You can't have it both ways "Grade is meaningless, except when
I want to be absolved of some responsibility."

You, as an individual, can do whatever you please.  But to take the leap that not being a CAP Officer
some how absolves you of the same staff duties and potential command that everyone else has
means you really don't get it.

If you really want that bright line, and I promise you don't, then there needs to be actual advantage
and privilege to being a CAP officer to go along with the increased scope of responsibility and authority.

If you think things are bad now, wait until you have untrained officers with no fundamental understanding
of the NCO paradigm ordering you to do the heavy lifting while they go for coffee.

'Cause that's what's at the end of this line.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2013, 09:16:49 PM by Eclipse » Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 48 Print 
CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: NCO Program Launched
 


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP SMF 2.0.13 | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.281 seconds with 20 queries.