SQTR Documment Upload required

[Flyboy86]

I am newbie so I can't make a poll but I would like to know in light of the new SQTR validation process does your Wing require members to upload signed SQTR worksheet?

Please include by stating which Wing are you in.


Second question - did you change the document requirement to upload worksheets because of the new SQTR process?

[bflynn]

Whether it's required or not, it's a good idea to have a paper SQTR with a signature unless you're watching the SET enter the information into eservices.  Paper backups are your proof that you did what you said you did. 

Remember that there are really three steps - training, demostrating proficiency, then entering it into the computer.  If there is time lag between 2 and 3, someone might not remember.  But if they see an attached document with their signature on it, it's real easy for them to recognize that they did it.  As a local policy, this is how our squadron has always done it.  The only exception before and after is if you are watching the SET enter it into the computer right there.

[Flyboy86]

There is no doubt this is a good idea.

I want to know if your Wing makes members upload the worksheet to prove training was done.

Whether it's required or not, it's a good idea to have a paper SQTR with a signature unless you're watching the SET enter the information into eservices.  Paper backups are your proof that you did what you said you did. 

Remember that there are really three steps - training, demostrating proficiency, then entering it into the computer.  If there is time lag between 2 and 3, someone might not remember.  But if they see an attached document with their signature on it, it's real easy for them to recognize that they did it.  As a local policy, this is how our squadron has always done it.  The only exception before and after is if you are watching the SET enter it into the computer right there.

[bflynn]

I really have no idea, but I doubt our wing dictates to squadrons how they will interact with the national website.  What's important to you is whether or not your wing requires squadrons to do this in a particular way.

[Huey Driver]

Just had my MRO disproved because of no SQTR sheet upload. I've been working on it for a little over a year now, with validations from several different people, and now have hunt down everyone who validated my tasks. I know that requiring a SQTR sheet upload is meaning good  intentions, but it's pretty obvious that I didn't just BS all of the tasks with random dates and evaluators. It'll be at least another year until I can get all of the signatures...

[bflynn]

Just had my MRO disproved because of no SQTR sheet upload. I've been working on it for a little over a year now, with validations from several different people, and now have hunt down everyone who validated my tasks. I know that requiring a SQTR sheet upload is meaning good  intentions, but it's pretty obvious that I didn't just BS all of the tasks with random dates and evaluators. It'll be at least another year until I can get all of the signatures...

Are your SET entries in eservices?  Or are you asking someone who is doing the approval to know (how?) that you actually demonstrated the task without showing any proof of it?  That is what the validation step does.

There is no final person that approves SQTR entries, so you didn't have your MRO disapproved.  You had individual entries disapproved because the person approving them could not validate that you had performed the task.  That is why I said that if you're not watching the SET make the entries, you need to have a piece of paper.  Then you upload that piece of paper to eservices and it is used to validate your entry.  But upload isn't required if the SET makes the entry directly.

I have the same issue with a member of our squadron.  They did tasks for AP and I had signed it off months ago.  But they never did the entry or uploaded the paper and now it's lost.  I can vaguely remember doing these things with him, but I'm not authorized as a SET anymore, so he has to find one of the three SETs in our squadron and get it signed off again under the current system.  I'm not sure he'll do it.

[Eclipse]

I really have no idea, but I doubt our wing dictates to squadrons how they will interact with the national website.  What's important to you is whether or not your wing requires squadrons to do this in a particular way.

Your wing has to approve every qualification, so clearly it is their mandate to "dictate how the members will interact".

[Eclipse]

Just had my MRO disproved because of no SQTR sheet upload. I've been working on it for a little over a year now, with validations from several different people, and now have hunt down everyone who validated my tasks. I know that requiring a SQTR sheet upload is meaning good  intentions, but it's pretty obvious that I didn't just BS all of the tasks with random dates and evaluators. It'll be at least another year until I can get all of the signatures...

Why would it take a year?  A few emails should take care of that in a day or two.

Scan the SQTR you've been working on, and email it to them, asking them to sign off the tasks.

[jimmydeanno]

nevermind.

[Storm Chaser]

FLWG has not provided any guidance (that I'm aware of) regarding uploaded paper SQTRs. While we have no supplement to CAPR 60-3 or corresponding OI, we do have a pamphlet with instructions on Ops Qual validation and approval procedures (this document is from before the new module and SQTR were implemented). This pamphlet, however, doesn't specify whether we need to upload a paper SQTR or not. That being said, in the past we've had qualifications not approved at group or wing level because they were missing an uploaded SQTR or the uploaded SQTR was missing initials/signatures. This also happened before this new system was implemented.

I have not attempted to submit a qualification without the corresponding SQTR uploaded. While I would like to get rid of the requirement to upload a paper SQTR, I do find it helpful to have that additional documentation. If the new system would force evaluators to validate the tasks they sign off, then we could probably get rid of the requirement (if there actually is one) to upload signed paper SQTRs. The problem right now is that anyone with Ops Quals approval permissions can validate tasks submitted by members using CAP IDs of other evaluators. Unless the person validating the task talks to that evaluator, the only way to confirm completion is through the initialed/signed SQTR.

Given the limitations with the current system, we have implemented a policy at my squadron requiring SQTRs to be uploaded and personnel with approval permissions not to validate tasks signed off by a different evaluator unless they confirm with the evaluator or verify initials/signatures on the paper SQTR. This, of course, may change if we receive guidance from group or wing requiring different procedures.

[Walkman]

As a point of process, I try to hammer the idea of paper SQTRs in my unit. I tell everyone to get a 3-ring binder that has all of their ES docs in it, and to carry paper SQTRs whenever they train and to ask for sigs when the task is eval'd (if possible). We've all seen far too many cases, especially with cadets it seems, of people going through the work but not getting the paperwork signed, then having to do it all over again because they have no proof.

[Eclipse]

So we did a >lot< of GT/GBD tasking this weekend, a lot of wing staffers with plenty of eServices privileges to go around.

We did the tasks, signed the SQTR, upload.  boom.  Same as it ever was.  Sure, I might "know" that I SET'ed the former Wing ESO
as a GBD, but what if I didn't know him personally or vice-versa?  The doc tells the story and provides the substantiation.  As mentioned
above, until the system locks out anyone but the actual SET from doing the validation, we may never get away from scanned docs.

I also created a spreadsheet to keep track of the people who I tasked and approved this weekend for future reference, which is
something I am recommending in my wing - some sort of log or simliar.

See a related comment here: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=16766.msg313902#msg313902

[Storm Chaser]

Eclipse, can you share the tracking spreadsheet you developed? Thank you.

[Alaric]

I have been a member of 5 different wings, am currently a member of CT wing.  Of those wings only 2 have required the upload of a paper SQTR.  It would be useful if National would come down one way or the other on this issue.  If we are supposed to be moving to paperless, lets do it