Old Cadet Award

[teesquared]

We have a senior member who rejoined CAP about six months ago. When he was a Cadet a loooong time ago, he received a "Certificate of Profiency Award" as a cadet. The award is dated Dec 1958. Does anybody know what award in the current cadet lineup that would be equivalent to?

[Ned]

It is typically considered the equivalent of a Mitchell, even though at the time it was the highest cadet award.

COP holders are worthy of great respect.  Thank him for me.

[teesquared]

His squadron commander is trying to get him promoted to Captain on the theory that the COP is/was the equivalent of today's Spaatz.  Any thoughts?

[Eclipse]

The ribbon looks like this:

And would have been earned prior to 1964. It is still approved for wear as a senior's "highest cadet award".

His squadron commander is trying to get him promoted to Captain on the theory that the COP is/was the equivalent of today's Spaatz.  Any thoughts?

I think that's a pretty fair stretch.  As Ned said, it's considered equivalent to the Mitchell, which these days equals about 1/2 a Spaatz.
http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1048/~/certificate-of-proficiency-(former-cadet-award)

[teesquared]

Can we promote him to half-a-captain? 

[Jaison009]

 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

It is typically considered the equivalent of a Mitchell, even though at the time it was the highest cadet award.

COP holders are worthy of great respect.  Thank him for me.

[Luis R. Ramos]

If you chop a captains bar you end up with one bar. Silver. A First Lieutenant. Isn't Mitchell=2nd Lt? Make him a First Lt, since it is the Squadron commander's  prerogative. Does not go higher than Squadron. And it is "almost"  Captain.

Flyer

[lordmonar]

If you chop a captains bar you end up with one bar. Silver. A First Lieutenant. Isn't Mitchell=2nd Lt? Make him a First Lt, since it is the Squadron commander's  prerogative. Does not go higher than Squadron. And it is "almost"  Captain.

Flyer

No....all advanced promotions go to NHQ

[arajca]

His squadron commander is trying to get him promoted to Captain on the theory that the COP is/was the equivalent of today's Spaatz.  Any thoughts?

Contact Member Services at National and ask.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Lord-

From 35-5

g. First and Second Lieutenant.  The squadron commander is the promoting authority
for all members assigned to his or her unit for all promotions except professional appointment
promotions.  The wing commander is the approving authority for all professional appointment
and squadron commander promotions.

After the squadron commander approves this, it goes to National. Our squadron has processed several former cadets with Mitchell this way. Not one was returned by NHQ. Now, if you use a person's professional or exceptional qualifications, it has to go through Group, Wing, or even Region depending on grade. If on the other hand, you are sending a Mitchell for Lieutenant to your Wing, it is not necessary.

Flyer

[Luis R. Ramos]

MISTAKE!

[lordmonar]

Lord-

From 35-5

g. First and Second Lieutenant.  The squadron commander is the promoting authority
for all members assigned to his or her unit for all promotions except professional appointment
promotions.  The wing commander is the approving authority for all professional appointment
and squadron commander promotions.

After the squadron commander approves this, it goes to National. Our squadron has processed several former cadets with Mitchell this way. Not one was returned by NHQ. Now, if you use a person's professional or exceptional qualifications, it has to go through Group, Wing, or even Region depending on grade. If on the other hand, you are sending a Mitchell for Lieutenant to your Wing, it is not necessary.

Flyer

Yes.....but you can't do it in E-serivces...must be paper (or PDF) and it goes to NHQ....even 2d Lt.

[SarDragon]

Grumpy needs to check in on this. He's one of them olde farts with a CoP.

I do not recall that there was any advanced promotion for CoP. It was on its way out when I joined.

That said, I've got to ask - when was his last active membership? Advanced promotion for cadet awards is generally based on recent experience, and making someone a Captain, for instance, based on a 45+ year olde cadet award probably isn't the best idea.

I asked for some inputs from some folks on Facebook. Let's see what comes up.

[SarDragon]

I've gotten responses from two people who became SMs after earning the CoP, and neither of them got advanced promotions, because that was not policy at the time. Therefore, IMHO, no advanced promotion is warranted now.

[BillB]

The Cadet COP with three clasps, completion of achievement 9 would be roughly equal to the Spaatz. But there was no automatic promotion given other than 2LT due to meeting memberhip service. At that period Squadron Commanders had the authority for promotion to 2LT and just submitted a form 2 to National. (no copy to Wing required)

[PA Guy]

That was also the period when C/Lt Col and C/Col were encampment grades only.  Cadet officer promotions were regulated by the Manning Table.  Number of cadet officer slots were based on a sqdn's cadet membership.  For instance to be a C/Maj a cadet not only had to meet the training requirements their sqdn was required to have at least 50 cadets to rate a C/Maj slot.

[ol'fido]

I have understood that some squadrons were doing this long after it went away in the regs. We had a transfer in to our unit because of that.

[SarDragon]

The cutoff on the transition was September 1964.

[ol'fido]

Some units around here were still doing it nearly 20 years later. Although, I think that many of them saw the example org. tables in 20-1 and thought they were limited to those numbers.

[Nathan]

That said, I've got to ask - when was his last active membership? Advanced promotion for cadet awards is generally based on recent experience, and making someone a Captain, for instance, based on a 45+ year olde cadet award probably isn't the best

This was my thought as well. Is there a reason to be trying to promote this guy further than 2d Lt? Does he have something more he can offer as a 1st Lt or Capt?

I'm not saying that we shouldn't recognize how awesome it is to have a COP-wearer around. But he's wearing an award that I would imagine can only be worn by a number of active members in the single digits.

As for his current role in CAP, is it prudent to give him a pass on a program that is over half-a-century older than it was when he left it? There might be a lot he needs to learn of re-learn, especially if he never served as a senior member in the program.