Cadet Participation in ES (Ground Team)

[Huey Driver]

I don't think anyone's talking about forcing cadets into ES. I have this funny phenomenon in my squadron (probably not unique) where the cadets have told me before - "Lt. Bagodoughnuts, we want to do this ES thing, ground team, radios, etc.". My response is "Great, here is how the program works!" and break down the steps to qualification and what their opportunities are during and after qualification.

Most of them never even do the 116.

Nope, not unique. Like I said earlier in the thread, they want to get involved but won't take any of the tests or take the time to enter SQTRs. They'll go and buy loads of unnecessary gear though.

[MIKE]

WIWAC in the late 90's I and my unit at the time was active enough with ELT/EPIRB missions to get me two non-distress Finds, a SAR ribbon, and basic GT badged... then the missions dried up, and CAP was not really a player in "other SAR", at least at that time in MAWG.

I think you need to take a serious look at the ops tempo in your AOR.  If the missions aren't there, or cadets are barred from participation due other factors... then don't waste their time and yours on training for qualifications they will never use.

[LGM30GMCC]

I have a problem when people assume Cadets in ES = Cadets on Ground Team. As has been pointed out acquiring and maintaining proper GT gear can get pricey. (I was serving as CDC in semi-rural and rural Montana.) Additionally, if there aren't actual missions it just becomes expensive 'nice to have' stuff. For a number of reasons MT just was not utilized much and for a number of Ops CAP ground teams just wouldn't be appropriate or equipped to handle it. (Aircraft seem to have a tendency to crash into the mountains up there.)

If folks want to do introductory training and whatnot during the little bit of non-mandated contact hours, that's great...as long as they have a real plan.

We developed a plan to get people GT qualified in a reasonable amount of time to a truly high standard. (Classroom training using the NESCP followed by field practice/training, followed later by evaluation). We had about 6 of our cadets who were interested but when they started having to put in the work they fell off and we stopped providing the extra training.

The squadron was also going to invest in 10 sets of GTM gear and keep it stocked and ready to go. Standardized kits supplied with squadron funds. But there was no commitment from the cadets.

AE is a required part of the CP. It's required for promotions and can be tied into the core curriculum. ES you can practice some of the leadership skills, but it just is not part of the mandated program.

As to having people get to pick and choose, I think that is an ideal situation. If you have a big squadron (30+ active cadets) I think you should be able to have parallel training. Color Guard while GT training is going on, or extra AE focused stuff whatever. Tailoring a program to a very specific thing though I believe it has 'high retention' and the like because the people who want to do that stuff, or that get those unconcious signals that's what they SHOULD want stay. The others leave or don't join in the first place.

[cantthinkof1]

One reason might be that because in New Jersey the GSAR course is the same exact week as the Basic Encampment.  Most cadets at my squadron who are interested in GSAR also need to attend the encampment.  Last year I attended the encampment then one week later I attended the GSAR course and had a blast.  Does anyone know why they are in the same week?   

[cantthinkof1]

Also, my squadron has a total of 44 active cadets and only 2 are GTM certified...

[Eclipse]

Not everyone goes to encampment.

Not everyone goes to GSAR.

Life is choice.

GSAR academies, NESA, HMRS, or any of these other schools are not remotely required to be active in ES.
Most members complete the training locally.

[cantthinkof1]

Not everyone goes to encampment.

Not everyone goes to GSAR.

Life is choice.

GSAR academies, NESA, HMRS, or any of these other schools are not remotely required to be active in ES.
Most members complete the training locally.

ES classes are not taught at my squadron.  Just saying that having the GSAR course and the encampment in the same week can limit a cadets opportunity to become GTM certified.

[Eclipse]

ES classes are not taught at my squadron.

First thing to do is to ask why not.

Then consider that there are other squadrons, not necessarily to join permanently, but to participate with
for training.  Your wing should have any number of other training activities throughout the year.

People that want something find it.

People that don't make excuses.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I was trying to get up to my UDF when our unit was running it, but I'll fully admit I became active again to primarily help with the CP, and my responsibilities there often got in the way of the UDF training. No biggie, I'll try to knock it out over a weekend activity or bribe some SET with a dinner for some training. Priorities...

We have some missions, but we're also not hurting for players in the unit, so I'd rather help make our CP stronger and get the ES stuff done as I get the chance.

[Huey Driver]

Does anyone know why they are in the same week?

Logistics, and problems with last year's location. This year it's being held at Fort Dix with encampment. I personally would like them separated still but I see why they're together this year.

But again, there's plenty of ways to get involved other than GSAR school.

[Walkman]

I've been building out ES program in the squadron for the past 2 years. We now have a core group of cadets moving forward with GT & UDF quals. A few of them have been able to go on actual UDF mission and two of them are staff at the WG ES academy. We're still in the growing phase, where we're got many cadets in Trainee status and a few fully qualified, but we're getting there.

[MajorM]

There's a value to ES training from a mission and values perspective.  Few other areas of CAP provide as visible a reminder of the civic service piece of CAP.

We have an active ES program.  Currently we have six cadet GTMs and two cadets with GTL done but waiting out the age thing.

I think part of the challenge is that the ES qualification process is confusing and labor-intensive.  So we help them through it.  Every new cadet, before exiting Phase I completes 116 and gets qualified as a GTM3-T.  After that if they want to learn more it's in their lap, but we'll still help.

An active ES component attracts a certain type of cadet as well as senior.  It needs to be in balance with everything else however.  We presently have 30 cadets so just over 25% have a full rating, and around 90% have a trainee status in something.

[Stonewall]

There's a value to ES training from a mission and values perspective.  Few other areas of CAP provide as visible a reminder of the civic service piece of CAP.

We have an active ES program.  Currently we have six cadet GTMs and two cadets with GTL done but waiting out the age thing.

I think part of the challenge is that the ES qualification process is confusing and labor-intensive.  So we help them through it.  Every new cadet, before exiting Phase I completes 116 and gets qualified as a GTM3-T.  After that if they want to learn more it's in their lap, but we'll still help.

An active ES component attracts a certain type of cadet as well as senior.  It needs to be in balance with everything else however.  We presently have 30 cadets so just over 25% have a full rating, and around 90% have a trainee status in something.

:clap:

Labor-intensive is right!

Yes, this is exactly the issue I face.  I think the problem is that we are trying to meet some national standard (NASAR?) that other agencies have created so we have some sort of recognizable or accepted street cred in the GSAR community.  No one other than paid assets like the military or well funded local/state agencies can beat us when it comes to Air SAR.

As far as I'm concerned, we are NOT a premier ground SAR capability, but we are far better than the alternative; untrained volunteers, who, while much appreciated, can often do more harm than good.  Prior to all the "national standardization" we (my CAP AOR, anyway in MER/DCWG) operated nicely.  But I agree, since all of the SQTR requirements, different GTM levels, etc., it can be a turnoff to some.  I realize cadets are rarely considered mature or effective enough to conduct SAR operations, but I think some, if not most, are.  More important to the cadet being mature enough, is the senior member running the ground team (real or training) smart and rational enough to identify the right cadets to take part in real missions.

I have said for many years, that CAP ES is an awesome way to exercise leadership for cadets.  I also caveat that statement with the knowledge that we (refering to cadets) may actually never be called out for real missions.  But if the stars are aligned and everything works out, then hell yeah, call'em in and put'em out in the field on a REDCAP.  My personal experiences on REDCAPs as a cadet were limited to about 6 total, in 5 years.  1 was a big time missing a/c mission that lasted days where mission base was more than a 2 hour drive away, and the other 5 (may have been more) were your typical non-distress, but it wasn't known until we found the ELTs, or in one case, the "lost person" turned out not to be lost.  But it was the excitement of actually doing something that made all the time, training and equipment worthwhile.  I could have cared less that I wasn't hoisted out with a jungle penetrator with an infant in my arms as I gave rescue breaths, reviving him just before returning him to the arms of his waiting parents on a mountainside.  No, I simply wanted to be a part of something bigger, and ES satisfied that need..

Old days:
2 hour GES class (human interaction) followed by 50 question ES questionnaire.
2 (real or practice) missions as a GTM(T) under supervision of a qualified GTL (no UDF qual).
ROP ROA card.
First Aid card.

Now:
So many links, videos, online "training", check-offs, and requirements that I'm confused, and I've been doing this since I was 14.  And that's just for GTM-3, I think.  I actually don't know which is higher, GTM-3 or 1.

The current system for earning a GTM qualification is probably necessary evil so that the organization as a whole is accepted in the SAR community nationwide.  But it absolutely makes it less appealing to cadets.

[ol'fido]

      When I joined CAP, the opportunity for missions was even rarer. They seemed to come in little clusters every 5-6 years, but I guess I was lucky. I joined a squadron where ES was just as important, if not more so, than any other aspect of the cadet program. It didn't matter to us that there might not be a mission for several years at a time. Going out and doing land nav or survival training was a heck of a lot more fun than setting around the meeting learning about what public law was responsible for CAP's existence. Yet, I was still on a color guard. we still had a chaplain giving Moral Leadership classes. I still promoted all the way to c/LtCol as did about 5 of my peers. I still went to encampment, flight encampment, and all the other things cadets do today that aren't related to ES.

       I was in a squadron good ol'country boys(and a girl or two ) who were as at home in the woods as they were in their living room. Playing army was as common as playing video games are today in the years before they were old enough to join. It may be me being old or it may be the result of a online generation, but those guys seemed a lot more engaged than some of the cadets do today. Because there wasn't all the outfits back then that sold "tacti-cool" gear and 21 different configurations of MOLLE vests, combat vests, etc., everyone pretty much had the basic LBE type gear. That also made us pretty good scroungers as well. Because we didn't have all the neat gee whiz gear like computers, Ipads, GPS, and cell phones, we became experts at improvising, adapting, and overcoming, and we were more than likely to succeed at whatever it was than some of the teams I have seen in operation lately.

       I hear people say on here that ES is not part of the cadet program so they don't involved in it or encourage their cadets to because they will have to buy a lot of gear and may not get to go to a real mission. CAP didn't start as a "youth leadership" program and all of a sudden decide, "Hey, why don't we take all this stuff we got and go look for lost airplanes or help out in disasters." The cadet program started as way to help prepare America's youth for their, at that time, inevitable military service and to give those cadets and seniors who were otherwise not eligible to serve a way to perform national service. The cadet program should not operate in a vacuum. It should train cadets to fulfill ALL of CAP's missions including and especially ES.

[Walkman]

The current system for earning a GTM qualification is probably necessary evil so that the organization as a whole is accepted in the SAR community nationwide.  But it absolutely makes it less appealing to cadets.

I wouldn't mind flattening out the GT levels a bit, but I kinda' like having some levels in place. I think having a new goal to reach keeps people engaged in training and moving forward.

Most of my cadets that are ES minded don't seem to be discouraged by the levels, and I've seen those that are of the hi-speed type want to put in the time & effort to reach higher levels. Actually what is discouraging to my cadets at the moment is getting First Aid done. It's getting pretty pricey.

[Stonewall]

Actually what is discouraging to my cadets at the moment is getting First Aid done. It's getting pretty pricey.

My old squadron had 5, count them, FIVE, first aid instructors through the Red Cross.  I was one of them.  We used squadron funds to qualify 4 seniors and one 18 y/o cadet as instructors - First Aid/CPR/AED.

Over the cousre of the next 2 years or so, we held about 10 first aid weekends throughout the wing (small wing, DCWG).  Because we'd have 2 instructors at each course, we could teach up to 20 at a time.  We bought 20 sets of books and re-used them every time, and we rented the other equipment.  We'd charge $25 per person, which, after 2 years, not only replaced the funds we used initially, but added some padding in our bank account so we could buy the first aid equipment out-right.

[Walkman]

My old squadron had 5, count them, FIVE, first aid instructors through the Red Cross.  I was one of them.  We used squadron funds to qualify 4 seniors and one 18 y/o cadet as instructors - First Aid/CPR/AED.

Very nice. We had one SM that was certified as a FA instructor, but he decided to go from Navy Reserves enlisted to AF Reserve officer. He's gone for a while...

I'll need to see if I can figure out a way to raise the money for something like this. I can think of 3 SMs that would be willing and able to get the certs done.

[Woodsy]

Actually what is discouraging to my cadets at the moment is getting First Aid done. It's getting pretty pricey.

My old squadron had 5, count them, FIVE, first aid instructors through the Red Cross.  I was one of them.  We used squadron funds to qualify 4 seniors and one 18 y/o cadet as instructors - First Aid/CPR/AED.

Over the cousre of the next 2 years or so, we held about 10 first aid weekends throughout the wing (small wing, DCWG).  Because we'd have 2 instructors at each course, we could teach up to 20 at a time.  We bought 20 sets of books and re-used them every time, and we rented the other equipment.  We'd charge $25 per person, which, after 2 years, not only replaced the funds we used initially, but added some padding in our bank account so we could buy the first aid equipment out-right.

Wow, I haven't heard of it costing that much before...  That last few times we've done it around here, it has been somewhere around $10... 

[Stonewall]

Wow, I haven't heard of it costing that much before...  That last few times we've done it around here, it has been somewhere around $10...

I'm scheduled for a full class next week at the ARC office here in town and it's costing $110.  That's First Aid, Adult/Child CPR, and AED.

If the books/materials are furnished, or available for free, the actual cost is somewhere around $20.  Not sure who is doing the training, unless it's through the local Navy base, which can be fairly inexpensive.  $10...that's really cheap.  I've never heard of that.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Woodsy-

If your squadron does not own mannequins for CPR practice, it gets expensive very quickly.

I have been both a Red Cross First Aid/CPR (1990-1995) and American Heart Association CPR instructor (now).

Both times, the cards alone cost $10. Books cost anywhere from $10 to $15. These two things come to at least $20. Then you start adding costs for renting mannequins, buying first aid practice materials, on and on.

Some instructors post here they reduced costs by keeping and reusing books. However this is against instructor agreements that both the American Red Cross and the American Heart Association clearly show on agreements their instructors have to sign. These agreements state that basically each student has to get a book. I do not know how they can get away with this, ignoring something they signed, and then expect cadets to show integrity.

Flyer