March 07 National Board Meeting Live Web Stream

[Monty]

Mandatory wear dates set for new MAJCOM patch and the CAP tapes.

March '08 was it?

[Psicorp]

Mandatory wear dates set for new MAJCOM patch and the CAP tapes.

March '08 was it?

March '08 for the MAJCOM (depending on supply, i'm sure).  The USCAP tapes are 2010, not sure that's written in stone though.    But then, what is around here?

[jayleswo]

>>I just started phasing out the CAP cutouts with my own troops.  Had a handful of cadet promotions last night -- just removed their CAP cutout and replaced with appropriate grade insignia.

Actually, everyone should wait until a policy letter or reg change is published before implementing any of the decisions made at the NB meeting. We've all seen things change after the fact and you need regulatory authority beforehand.

[lordmonar]

>>I just started phasing out the CAP cutouts with my own troops.  Had a handful of cadet promotions last night -- just removed their CAP cutout and replaced with appropriate grade insignia.

Actually, everyone should wait until a policy letter or reg change is published before implementing any of the decisions made at the NB meeting. We've all seen things change after the fact and you need regulatory authority beforehand.

By regulation once the NB make the decision it is regulatory.

[JohnKachenmeister]

>>I just started phasing out the CAP cutouts with my own troops.  Had a handful of cadet promotions last night -- just removed their CAP cutout and replaced with appropriate grade insignia.

Actually, everyone should wait until a policy letter or reg change is published before implementing any of the decisions made at the NB meeting. We've all seen things change after the fact and you need regulatory authority beforehand.

By regulation once the NB make the decision it is regulatory.

At least until the next NB meeting.

[DNall]

>>I just started phasing out the CAP cutouts with my own troops.  Had a handful of cadet promotions last night -- just removed their CAP cutout and replaced with appropriate grade insignia.

Actually, everyone should wait until a policy letter or reg change is published before implementing any of the decisions made at the NB meeting. We've all seen things change after the fact and you need regulatory authority beforehand.

By regulation once the NB make the decision it is regulatory.

Yes but we haven't been officially informed of their decision. The cadet grade issue has a phase in date, so you can slow that down for logistics to catch up.

The branch tapes & stuff liek that, I can't tell you if that requires AF approval or not, I assume it does, and that could take months. I can't tell you exactly what the policy is on everything just cause I saw the results on the stream. You are techically legal if you start doing stuff right after the board votes on it (if they are the final approval) and you are techincally right to wait for publication too. No big deal.

[RiverAux]

And some of those decisions need approval from the AF and even then they need to be put into a regulation or policy letter.

[sardak]

Attached is an unofficial listing of agenda and other board actions that took place during the recent National Board meeting in DC. The official, detailed minutes are under development and will be sent out in draft copy soon. As is our practice, these draft minutes will be approved at the next meeting of the NB.

We hope you find this executive summary helpful.
Mark H. Richardson, III
Senior Director
Hq CAP, Maxwell AFB, AL

Provision for Mid-Term Elections
      - Amended to remove National CC from item as C&BL allows that in the event of absence or incapacity of  the National Commander, the National Vice CC shall exercise any and all authority reserved to the National CC until . . .
      - Further amended to state this would be a 6-month term; re-election would be required at next summer NB
      - Passed.  Requires review by C&BL committee, then to BoG for final approval.

CAP-USAF Designated "Non-Voting" Member
      - Passed. Requires review by C&BL committee, then to BoG for final approval.

Drug Demand Reduction Program Specialty Track
      - Passed

Air Force Testing
      - Amended to apply to only military PME courses
      - Failed

School Enrichment Program Strategic Plan
      - Passed

Wing and Region Commander Terms
      - Vote by secret ballot
      - Passed. Requires review by C&BL committee, then to BoG for final approval.

Change to CAPR 123-2, Complaints
      - Discussion noted the Adverse Personnel Actions group is reviewing issue
      - CAP/IG gave full discussion of current processes and procedures in place
      - Postponed to Aug 07 NB

CAP Vehicle Roof Markings
      - Agenda item to repeal earlier decision to mandate orange triangle on roofs of CAP vehicles
      - Passed

Defining and Quantifying CAP Mishap Definitions
      - CAP-USAF/CC withdrew this item

Old Business

Application of Safety Privilege to CAP Flight Operations
      - National Safety Officer discussed difference between Air Force process that conducts two separate investigations and CAP that conducts one
      - National Safety Officer and CAP-USAF/SE will continue discussions

New Business

Add "US" to "Civil Air Patrol" on BDU tape
      - 3 year phase in (mandatory wear date of 1 Mar 2010)
      - New "US Civil Air Patrol" tapes to be sold by Vanguard as soon as production will allow and only new style to be sold
      - CAP-USAF concurs
      - Passed

Amend CAPR 35-5, "CAP Officer and NCO Appointments and Promotions" allow CAP/CV to retain grade of Brigadier General.  Remove reference to "temporary" grade for CV, but not retroactive.
      - Will require staffing for CAP-USAF approval
      - Passed

Life Memberships for all Coastal Patrol Base members
      - Passed

Membership eligibility for non-US citizens, specifically relating to the School Program
      - Interim report due by Aug 07 NB

Reports

Deputy Chiefs of Staff presented updates on significant results since inception of DCS structure and highlighted High Interest Topics

Briefed status of Consolidated Aircraft Maintenance Program and items of general interest

Other Briefings with Decision Points

Briefed proposed flow-chart detailing process for changes to C&BL with resolution to submit to BoG
      - Passed

Uniform
1. Orange T-shirt with BDU for wear at all times.  An approved exception for wear at some specific activities already exists.
      - Failed due to no Second

2. Orange baseball cap, allow wear of metal rank
      - Postponed indefinitely

3. Rescind uniform requirement to keep ribbons below top notch of service coat
      - Failed

4. Create a Border Patrol Ribbon
      - Failed

5. Create an Incident Commander badge (once earned, may always retain)
      - Passed

6. Leather name tag - allow wear of specialty insignia besides aviation badge
      - Passed

7. Bestow recognition on those that fly O-Flights
      - Failed due to no motion

8. Create DDR specialty badge
      - Passed
   
9. Wear of the Cadet Advisory Council ribbon
         a) Authorize cadets earning the CAC ribbon to continue to wear ribbon as senior member
                   - Passed, with retroactive status

         b) Authorize senior members serving as advisors to CAC, for at least one term, to earn the CAC ribbon -
                       - Failed

10. Create new PA award to recognize Region PAO of the Year
      - Failed

11. Cadet NCO grade - allow wear on both collars
      - CAP-USAF/CC concurs
      - Passed

12. New Command Patch - allow wear on AF-style flight suit
      - CAP-USAF/CC concurs
      - Passed

[Psicorp]

Thanks for posting that, sardak!

Question:

Is a CAP-USAF/CC concur the same as AF approval?

[DNall]

Thanks for posting that, sardak!

Question:

Is a CAP-USAF/CC concur the same as AF approval?

No, absolutey no relation. HOWEVER, CAP-USAF doesn't EVER state their own opinion, they are not allowed to. Anything they say publicly has been researched & generally represents the prominant view in the AF. That does NOT mean that when a proposal goes up to AU or AETC CC that it won't go down in flames. CAP-USAF statements are dramatically limited legally, and what they do say you should take as guidance, not the rule of law. Actually uinderstanding where people stand? That goes on off mic.

[A.Member]

sardak:

Do you know why there is little to no discussion around most of the items put forth for vote, particularly when some of those items do not appear to have been listed as agenda items (ex. nametapes)? 

In addition, why are all these uniform changes being presented for final vote without any prior feedback/input from the membership?

It appears that a lot of items are being slammed through with very little discussion or forethought.  Our polls here are certainly not scientific by any means but they certainly seem to be indictive of widespread disapproval of numerous recent decisions and a significant disconnect between the general membership and NHQ (including NB and BOG). 

[arajca]

Thanks for posting that, sardak!

Question:

Is a CAP-USAF/CC concur the same as AF approval?

No, absolutey no relation. HOWEVER, CAP-USAF doesn't EVER state their own opinion, they are not allowed to. Anything they say publicly has been researched & generally represents the prominant view in the AF. That does NOT mean that when a proposal goes up to AU or AETC CC that it won't go down in flames. CAP-USAF statements are dramatically limited legally, and what they do say you should take as guidance, not the rule of law. Actually uinderstanding where people stand? That goes on off mic.

From what I've seen, the concur/no coment/nonconcur by CAP-USAF basically relates to big items that will almost guarentee the AF killing the proposal. Similar to running an idea by you immediate supervisor for their opinion before sending it up to the big boss.

[MIKE]

So, the grade on both sides on service uniforms still says Cadet NCOs only?  Must be forgetting about C/Amn-C/SrA.    C/AB is a given.

[sardak]

Good questions - no answers.  I was just passing along information I received, through channels, from NHQ.  I wasn't the author, nor was I there.  I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express once.

Mike

[A.Member]

Good questions - no answers.  I was just passing along information I received, through channels, from NHQ.  I wasn't the author, nor was I there.  I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express once.

Mike

Well, perhaps then you can assist with passing along info in the other direction as well.

[DNall]

So, the grade on both sides on service uniforms still says Cadet NCOs only?  Must be forgetting about C/Amn-C/SrA.    C/AB is a given.

Bad writing, you know what they meant. saying enlisted even when appropriate hasn't fully penetrated the vernacular for various reasons.

[MIKE]

1-3. a. Officer: As used in this publication, includes senior member grades flight officer through major
general and cadet grades second lieutenant through colonel.
b. Airman: Unless otherwise specified, includes all other uniformed members both senior and
cadet.

[lordmonar]

sardak:

Do you know why there is little to no discussion around most of the items put forth for vote, particularly when some of those items do not appear to have been listed as agenda items (ex. nametapes)? 

In addition, why are all these uniform changes being presented for final vote without any prior feedback/input from the membership?

You know...I have searched and searched the rules and regs, and the Constition and By-Laws....and no where does it say anything has to have any feed back from the membership.  Are you under the impression that CAP is a democracy?

I mean if we are...I vote for pink Tutus and Orange Boonie hats!

[DNall]

1-3. a. Officer: As used in this publication, includes senior member grades flight officer through major
general and cadet grades second lieutenant through colonel.
b. Airman: Unless otherwise specified, includes all other uniformed members both senior and cadet.

That's bad writing too.

[CAP428]

>>I just started phasing out the CAP cutouts with my own troops.  Had a handful of cadet promotions last night -- just removed their CAP cutout and replaced with appropriate grade insignia.

Actually, everyone should wait until a policy letter or reg change is published before implementing any of the decisions made at the NB meeting. We've all seen things change after the fact and you need regulatory authority beforehand.

By regulation once the NB make the decision it is regulatory.

I guess I'm a little confused.  Does that mean members can, today, go ahead and order "US Civil Air Patrol" nametapes and begin wearing them?

Or does it have to go through more channels first?