Cadet grades--nation-wide percentage?

[Equinox]

According to the second volume of Learn to Lead, the top 15% of cadets are C/2nd Lt or higher.

Anyone know the stats on other cadet grades?

[Майор Хаткевич]

5% Earhart, 2% Eaker, 0.5% Spaatz, 27% WBA

[Cool Mace]

5% Earhart, 2% Weaker, 0.5% Spaatz, 27% WBA

Ounch!

[NCRblues]

2% Weaker

Freudian slip?

[Cool Mace]

Something like that... Although, I thought he was a "Weaker" cadet as well? Maybe not.

[Equinox]

5% Earhart, 2% Weaker, 0.5% Spaatz, 27% WBA

Thanks for the info!

What does WBA stand for?

Any idea as to how many cadets hold grade of C/1st Lt?

[Equinox]

oh wait it must be Wright Bros....duh 

[Майор Хаткевич]

5% Earhart, 2% Weaker, 0.5% Spaatz, 27% WBA

Ounch!

Stupid "Smart" phone...

My sig has the Earhart Ribbon. I hold nothing against Eaker cadets (except for those who had time but never tried for Spaatz).

[68w20]

5% Earhart, 2% Eaker, 0.5% Spaatz, 27% WBA

I know that those are the numbers that are always quoted (at least as long as I've been in), but what's the source?  I'm wondering if there're more recent percentages out there.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I think NHQ put those out at some point. It even makes some sense. Since numbering started in 79/80, there are about 60K Mitchell numbers and 17K Earhart or so?

[Cool Mace]

5% Earhart, 2% Weaker, 0.5% Spaatz, 27% WBA

Ounch!

Stupid "Smart" phone...

My sig has the Earhart Ribbon. I hold nothing against Eaker cadets (except for those who had time but never tried for Spaatz).

I should have looked at that. 

I'm a proud failure of the Spaatz exam myself. So close... 

[TJT__98]

Only 27% get the WBA? I thought for sure I wasn't that cool  . (edit) Now that I actually think about it the Wright Brothers Award was an achievement so that needs to be taken into account. (/edit)

[Extremepredjudice]

Ok, so I want to know the percentages for C/Sra, C/A1c, C/Amn, and C/AB

[Abby.L]

Ok, so I want to know the percentages for C/Sra, C/A1c, C/Amn, and C/AB

Well, as far as C/AB goes...

I would certainly hope that every basic at least gets C/AB. 

[jimmydeanno]

EP,

Are you looking for the number of cadets who currently are, or the percentage that make it to those on average?  Because 100% of cadets earn "C/AB."

Just a quick guess, but I'd venture to say that the distribution looks something like this:

C/AB - 100%
C/Amn - 70%
C/A1C - 50%
C/SrA - 40 %
C/SSgt - 27%
C/TSgt - 25%
C/MSgt - 23%
C/SMSgt - 20%
C/CMSgt - 18%
C/CMSgt - 16%
C/2d Lt - 15%
C/1st Lt - 10%
C/Capt - 5%
C/Maj - 3%
C/Lt Col - 2%
C/Col - 0.5%


Kind of sad, when you think about it.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Only 27% get the WBA? I thought for sure I wasn't that cool  . (edit) Now that I actually think about it the Wright Brothers Award was an achievement so that needs to be taken into account. (/edit)

These statistics are WB Award specific, not based on the old system that was changed almost 10 years ago.

-Proud recipient of the Wright Brothers Achievement (3)
-Never wore the Feik
-Was issued a WBA # when I earned my Mitchell.

[PHall]

5% Earhart, 2% Weaker, 0.5% Spaatz, 27% WBA

Ounch!

Stupid "Smart" phone...

My sig has the Earhart Ribbon. I hold nothing against Eaker cadets (except for those who had time but never tried for Spaatz).

People with more then half a brain turn OFF the auto-correct.   Just sayin'...

[JeffDG]

I can only do my wing, but in terms of current rank:

CADET   25.8%
C/Amn   19.6%
C/A1C   8.6%
C/CMSgt   7.1%
C/2dLt   6.6%
C/SrA   5.7%
C/SSgt   5.3%
C/SMSgt   4.9%
C/MSgt   4.4%
C/TSgt   4.2%
C/1stLt   2.0%
C/Capt   2.0%
C/LtCol   1.8%
C/Maj   1.8%
C/Col   0.2%

[Майор Хаткевич]

Makes sense actually. I'd say maybe 1 out of 4/5 are non-starters who join and don't promote and are gone within a year.

[TJT__98]

Only 27% get the WBA? I thought for sure I wasn't that cool  . (edit) Now that I actually think about it the Wright Brothers Award was an achievement so that needs to be taken into account. (/edit)

These statistics are WB Award specific, not based on the old system that was changed almost 10 years ago.

-Proud recipient of the Wright Brothers Achievement (3)
-Never wore the Feik
-Was issued a WBA # when I earned my Mitchell.

That's what I thought after I posted that.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I think the point here is how many people finish phase I and get to phase II.

The dubious stats suggest just over 1/4th of all cadets.


Looking at your signature, your WBA# is 21322.

I was given my number in March of 2006, so the numbering at that point was already to 5378.

The program came into play in April 2003.

So at that point in 3 years we had 5500 awards or so.

Fast forward 6.5 years and we're up to 21500 (I'm assuming yours is recent).

That's about 10,000 per the same 3 year period.

Roughly 3,500 per year. We have 26881 cadets currently, and national has also said that our turnover is about 50% annually.

So that's 13,000 new cadets per year, and about 3,500 earn the WBA. That gets me to 26.9%

[TJT__98]

Yes mine is recent, I got it in August.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I can only do my wing, but in terms of current rank:

CADET   25.8%
C/Amn   19.6%
C/A1C   8.6%
C/SrA   5.7%
C/SSgt   5.3%
C/TSgt   4.2%
C/MSgt   4.4%
C/SMSgt   4.9%
C/CMSgt   7.1%
C/2dLt   6.6%
C/1stLt   2.0%
C/Capt   2.0%
C/Maj   1.8%
C/LtCol   1.8%

C/Col   0.2%

Quite interesting. C/Officers make up 14.4% of all cadets, yet 2d Lts are almost half of them.



Who is willing to bet it's the dreaded Mitchell Syndrome (SDA Disorder, etc).

[Cool Mace]

I bet it is the SDA's. Many C/Officers are afraid of them for some reason. A lot of them also think they don't have the time to complete them, thinking they take longer than they really do.
It's a shame to see cadet stagnate at C/2ndLt. Their CAP is just opening up at that point.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I bet it is the SDA's. Many C/Officers are afraid of them for some reason. A lot of them also think they don't have the time to complete them, thinking they take longer than they really do.
It's a shame to see cadet stagnate at C/2ndLt. Their CAP is just opening up at that point.

I knocked out 3 SDAs in one sitting. At most maybe 45 minutes per piece. It really ISN'T hard, but what I'm discovering is that I was a bit of an anomaly, as most cadets seem to think their CAP ends at the L2L and AE texts. By the time I was a C/2d Lt, I had read most regs (minus technical/specific things for ES Ops) and could quote from CAPR 52-16, CAPM 39-1, CAPR 39-3, CAPP 52-14, CAPP 52-18, CAPP 52-19.

And to be honest, I'm not sure why, but while L2L is a better text than L2K was, they really should have incorporated knowledge of AT LEAST those regs in phase II.

As the Assistant Testing Officer I get to grade the tests, and I also take a peek and see what the cadets miss. A lot of the time on the milestones what trips up almost all of the cadets is any knowledge from anything outside of their Leadership text.

[jimmydeanno]

I didn't want to stay a C/2d Lt because I could never figure out which way was up on the insignia.  I was one of those cadets who always had their Curry upside-down, too.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I didn't want to stay a C/2d Lt because I could never figure out which way was up on the insignia.  I was one of those cadets who always had their Curry upside-down, too.

jimmydeanno
  Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,929
Unit: ǝnƃoɹ

It all makes sense now...

[Garibaldi]

I didn't want to stay a C/2d Lt because I could never figure out which way was up on the insignia.  I was one of those cadets who always had their Curry upside-down, too.

I used to mess around and tell cadets their ribbons were upside down, which was funny if they only had one, but one night i said it to one of our newly promoted Mitchell cadets, looked down and her ribbon rack and noticed the entire rack was upside down. She turned bright red and ran to the bathroom to fix it. The look on her face was priceless.

[jimmydeanno]

When I earned my Mitchell, I was promoted to Cadet Flight Officer along with three of my peers.  It was right at the same time that the new NCO grades were being phased in and C/FO was being phased out.  So, I plugged along and completed the requirements to be promoted to C/2d Lt at the same time that C/FO phase out date was complete.  So, I got promoted, and so did my peers who didn't do anything towards their progression.  I just kept plugging along though, and only one of them made it to Earhart.  I was the only one to make it to Eaker.

Making it to the Spaatz Award is a long road, but when I look at the percentage of cadets that earn it, it makes me wonder if there isn't something broken in the system, or if we should be ok with 0.5% of the cadets walking through the door earning it.  I'm not talking about lowering standards, but just looking at the entire progression and seeing if there is something that can maintain the prestige while being something that more cadets will strive for or be able to complete.

SDAs seem to be a big stumbling block, despite there being a guide and examples, etc.  Is it because they aren't relevant?  Is it because they don't bother to read the pamphlet?  Is it because there aren't any additional benefits to membership once you get your Mitchell (excluding IACE)?  In theory, the Mitchell is the equivalent of the Eagle Scout, if we use the AF promotion to E-3 as the measuring device...

It's a tough situation, and I really wish that more cadets would finish the program.  How awesome would it be if the Spaatz percentage was something like 25%?

[SarDragon]

SDAs have been a major PITA since day one. That's why I never got any farther than Mitchell.

[TJT__98]

Forgive if this sounds silly (one hour until midnight as I just got home from the CAP meeting), but what are SDAs? I think my main problem with C/2Lt and beyond will be the essays and speeches. My writing skills are poor and I have been in front of a crowd twice now, let's say I'm not exactly looking forward to next time .

[jimmydeanno]

Forgive if this sounds silly (one hour until midnight as I just got home from the CAP meeting), but what are SDAs? I think my main problem with C/2Lt and beyond will be the essays and speeches. My writing skills are poor and I have been in front of a crowd twice now, let's say I'm not exactly looking forward to next time .

SDA = Staff Duty Analysis.  Essentially, its a report that talks about different staff jobs in the squadron.  For example, you'd write one about "Administration Officer" and it would talk about what that job does and which regulations, etc., they use.

If you want to get a better idea, check out this pamphlet that tells you how to do them: http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/P052_014_8605254CD870D.pdf

[TJT__98]

Thank you very much, sir! That sounds like fun... (I hope y'all don't mind a little sarcasm)

[SarDragon]

Forgive if this sounds silly (one hour until midnight as I just got home from the CAP meeting), but what are SDAs? I think my main problem with C/2Lt and beyond will be the essays and speeches. My writing skills are poor and I have been in front of a crowd twice now, let's say I'm not exactly looking forward to next time .

Well, as luck would have it, essays and speeches are really singular, since they are only a requirement for the Armstrong achievement.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Eaker as well.

[SarDragon]

Oh. Well, that's new. Besides, I didn't get that far. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

Oh. Well, that's new. Besides, I didn't get that far. 

New is relative I think.

It was there when I joined in 2003. Probably was there since the 90s if not earlier.

Spaatz also has an essay.

Superchart

[SarDragon]

Check out my sig line. There are two bits of info that will give you a better idea about how 'new' fits into my CAP career.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Check out my sig line. There are two bits of info that will give you a better idea about how 'new' fits into my CAP career.

I am well aware. That's why I said "relative". 

[West MI-CAP-Ret]

I've been involved with the cadet program for over 30 years.

What would improve these stats?  Here are my ideas:
• ask incoming cadets, what do they expect to get out of the program (some have no idea what to expect).  Providing an overview of the program could weed out teens who would quit later.
• assign a good cadet to act as a mentor until the cadet makes C/Amn.
• have activities at least once a month; something interesting, designed by cadets.
• have cadet 1st Sgts look for abuse, look for shy cadets who keep to themselves. 
• if possible, get exit reviews.  Call cadets who leave, but their membership hasn't expired.  Let the cadet know they're missed.  See if anything can be fixed.
• review squadron of the year awards, wing, region and national.  Great place to mine ideas.

Kids want to belong.  CAP is a club to them.  The difference between us and all the others are our missions.  Saving lives is a great thing.  Also get cadets involved in group or wing activities.

Finally, let the cadets know you care for them.  Off the parade grounds try smiling and offer words of encouragement.

We certainly can turn the stats around.  Too many seniors who don't work at making their uniforms presentable.  Big pet-peeve with cadets.  You don't have to be ex-military to be professional. 

Warmly, Dave

[Equinox]

SDA's haven't slowed me down one bit!

They beat drill tests on any day of the week! 

[a2capt]

Check out my sig line. There are two bits of info that will give you a better idea about how 'new' fits into my CAP career.

They had warrants out on him..
They're expired now.


I tell the cadets, "you need to explain to me what this job function is, as if I don't know what it is." .. and presumably you don't either, so you can start with the pamphlets and regulations to read about it, and then use them to answer these questions.


Easy peasy.