NEW Hurricane Relief Patch

[LtCol White]

Yeah i know. There is no simple solution. Especially since the ribbon is supposed to encompass all "disasters". The key is to find a device that could give special recognition to those extraordinary events. Since we already have stars, triangles and props, perhaps something in a diamond shape that would refer to major events. Perhpas a lightening bolt.

[DNall]

Well an option would be to create a small metal device in the shape of the hurricane symbol that could be worn on the disaster relief ribbon.

Slippery Slope Warning!
Do you also create a tornado device, snowflake device, flood device, flame device, earthquake device? There are more disasters than just hurricanes.

I understand you can't & shopuldn't put a device on for every type of disaster, but something representative of them all in place of the "V" would have been better, and there just so happens to already be a hurricane device available:

Still I like the idea of clusters congruent in some way with the SaR & CN ribbons. Go over there to ultra thin,  put up a couple disaster relief ribbons, and play with different devices. I think you'll find it looks right.

[LtCol White]

Of course, I dont think u can have devices for everthing. Just trying to think of something that would be dinstictive to a major event of any type. Hurricane, flood, snow, fire, terrorism, etc..

Perhaps something like a diamond or lightening bolt would suffice. Since the triangle clasp is used to denote repetitive awards, something that would only be used to designate a major event is needed.

[ddelaney103]

Well an option would be to create a small metal device in the shape of the hurricane symbol that could be worn on the disaster relief ribbon.

Slippery Slope Warning!
Do you also create a tornado device, snowflake device, flood device, flame device, earthquake device? There are more disasters than just hurricanes.

That's OK: we'll just limit it to Air, Earth, Fire and Water.  Collect all four!

[LtCol White]

Well if u want to stick with the "theme" of using a "V" device, you could have a "D" device to denote a major disaster of whatever type.

[cnitas]

How about authorize bars for wear on the DR ribbon.
The bars could read "KATRINA", "RITA", COLUMBIA", Etc.

There would be a list of authorized bars, and you would wear 1 of your choice if you have earned more than 1.

[AlphaSigOU]

How about authorize bars for wear on the DR ribbon.
The bars could read "KATRINA", "RITA", COLUMBIA", Etc.

There would be a list of authorized bars, and you would wear 1 of your choice if you have earned more than 1.

It's actually very rare to see ribbons displaying bars in US military-style uniforms, oak leaf clusters, stars or other devices used instead.

[LtCol White]

The bars is a good idea but since the ribbons are small, it wouldnt take long before you had too many bars. Thus my thinking of a "D" or a symbol such as a diamond or lightening bolt. Similar to the oak leaf or palm used in DOD

[DNall]

A "D" for disaster, on the Disaster Relief Ribbon, that's a little redundant isn't it? I'd say the basic ribbon with clusters the same way as the SaR or CN ribbons. The "V" should go, but if they want to recorgnize that then the CG hurricane attachment is plenty representative. A lightning bolt or cloud would be fine, but those aren't pre-mandufactured in quantity for someone else who we can just rip off rather than paying to create something new. Bars & letters don't lend themselves to recognizing multiple awards, and they don't look very good.

[arajca]

The problem with the DR ribbon is it has two distinct ways of being earned. First, and probably the most common, serve with CAP in direct support/response to a federally declared disaster. Second, complete the training detailed in CAPR 39-3. The first gets you the "V" device, while the second just gets the basic ribbon.

[SJFedor]

you could get one of those army style marksmanship medals, except instead of having a target on it, have a big hurricane or something else resembling a rather large charlie foxtrot in which you participated. put as many qual bars on it as you want with different mission names!

/sarcasm

more and more bling...

[MIKE]

How about "O" and "S" devices instead? 

[Eclipse]

The problem with the DR ribbon is it has two distinct ways of being earned. First, and probably the most common, serve with CAP in direct support/response to a federally declared disaster. Second, complete the training detailed in CAPR 39-3. The first gets you the "V" device, while the second just gets the basic ribbon.

Five (5) DR Missions >AND< Two of 7 possible courses listed in 39-3

or

Five (5) DR Missions >AND< 40 hours of approved related DR training or other activities.

or

Participation in a Presidentially declared disaster area, which, in addition to the ribbon earns you the "V".  The "V" is only awarded for a Presidentially declared disaster.

IMHO the assumption being that a PDDA will entail a significant amount of property damage and loss of life, and conversely the efforts and personal risk to the members participating is that much higher than a "normal" disaster.

[floridacyclist]

The problem with the DR ribbon is it has two distinct ways of being earned. First, and probably the most common, serve with CAP in direct support/response to a federally declared disaster. Second, complete the training detailed in CAPR 39-3. The first gets you the "V" device, while the second just gets the basic ribbon.

Are you sure that the Disaser w/ V requires service to be with CAP? The SME at the Knowledgebase didn't seem to think so when I was pursuing a different award for a cadet who did some interesting things with a different disaster agency. They suggested the Disaster W/ V device and pointed out that the reg only requires participation in a federally-declared disaster response.

[Eclipse]

Are you sure that the Disaser w/ V requires service to be with CAP? The SME at the Knowledgebase didn't seem to think so when I was pursuing a different award for a cadet who did some interesting things with a different disaster agency. They suggested the Disaster W/ V device and pointed out that the reg only requires participation in a federally-declared disaster response.

Not from the regulation itself

f. Disaster Relief Ribbon. Awarded for participation in five actual/evaluated disaster relief missions and completion of two of the following requirements:
(1) All of the following Red Cross courses:
(a) Introduction to Disaster Services:
How the Red Cross Chapter Renders Emergency Assistance
(b) Disaster Damage Assessment
(c) Shelter Management
(2) The Red Cross course, Damage Assessment Supervision in Disaster
(3) The Red Cross course, Cardio-Pulmonary Resuscitation and Advanced First Aid
(4) Radiological Monitoring for Instructors
(5) Radiological Defense Officer Course
(6) Airborne Radiological Monitoring Course
(7) Participation in other equivalent disaster relief activities totaling at least 40 hours of
activity certified by disaster relief agency. This could include any training similar to the above courses and/or
actual mission activity (in addition to the five required missions).
g. Disaster Relief Ribbon with “V” Device. The Disaster Relief Ribbon with a “V” device may be
awarded to any CAP member who participates in a disaster relief effort for a Presidential declared disaster.
Participation must be verified by the on-scene commander. Participation in any Presidential declared
disaster since 1990 qualifies

It is specific about "Presidentially declared" - I don't know if you could have a FDDA that wasn't a PDDA, probably not.

I suppose that you could stretch it to include outside activities, assuming someone approved it, but frankly this is a CAP award - other agencies would have their own awards for within that agency.

Since the classes and extra are mostly Red Cross stuff, I suppose it would be fairly common for someone active in the ARC to come into CAP as a new SM and from day one have a DR w/V, but Idon't know if its appropriate.

I am always a bit wary of people who want CAP awards for non-CAP activities, and anyone who asked for this from me would need to show me a lot of dcoumentationa and I'd still kick it up the chain, in that it is one of the more unusual awards in CAP (for the average member).

[DNall]

IMHO the assumption being that a PDDA will entail a significant amount of property damage and loss of life, and conversely the efforts and personal risk to the members participating is that much higher than a "normal" disaster.

That's a very dangeous assumption. Pretty small things get a federal declearation. I've been on several with no loss of life & only a temprorary economic impact. I've also been out on state declerations that were much more significant those more localized. The greatest danger I've experienced in CAP has been during UDF missions facing armed persons, followed closely by mission & non-mission flights with pilots that have so many hours they think ATC doesn't get to control them anymore. Driving around floods & tornado area is just fun.

Note: There is legally no such thing as a Presidentially declared disaster. The President's signature is required to make it a federally declared disaster area, which allows more money, but there would have been a significant federal response ongoing well before that point.

[floridacyclist]

I am sure the cadet would have much rather participated through CAP but was not allowed to due to his age. He also did not ask for anything, this was a joint decision by myself, the commander, and the promotions/awards board with input from the Knowledgebase. At first, the suggestion had come up to give him a Commander's Commendation, but that was definitely worded as to be available only for on-duty CAP service. My question to the knowledgebase was "What award if any would he be eligible for for meritorious service off-duty in a disaster zone?" and pointed out that even though he was deployed as a non-member,  CAP had been getting a lot of PR mileage out of his actions as every mention of the actions referred to him as a CAP cadet.

Their suggestion was a Disaster with V device and possibly a BMV. I replied and reiterated that he did not respond with CAP and they quoted that the reg only required that a CAP member participate in a FDD, not that he participate with CAP. To back that up, it was also pointed out that the regular DR ribbon was worded similarly and went on to clarify

7) Participation in other equivalent disaster relief activities totaling at least 40 hours of activity certified by disaster relief agency.

leaving one to conclude that participation could be with other agencies.

The Group Commander wrote it up as either a BMV directly citing his acts, or a Commander's Commendation aimed more at the representation of CAP and how he upheld the ideals of the program etc etc and presented it to the Group Promotions and Awards Board who chose to go with the BMV.

At the November Open House, the cadet was presented with the Disaster Relief Ribbon plus a second Disaster Ribbon with V device. Although wing said that they are seperate awards, he has been wearing just the ribbon with the V device. As for how he earned the regular Disaster Ribbon (it's tougher to get than the one with the V Device), he's also a CERT instructor and helped run the Red Cross Youth Disaster College. We also counted up the responses he's deployed on, and if the DR ribbon had clusters, he'd have a silver and 3 bronzes on it.

Last I heard, the BMV is still pending somewhere above Group level.

As for the amount of risk on a FDD, it has also been pointed out that ANY participation qualifies...even for a cadet that works an hour as a runner or gate guard at a mission base outside the disaster zone or a comm operator who relays a message.

[LtCol White]

Sometimes, the NG will award its disaster relief ribbon to CAP. I (along with about 15 others) rec'd this from the GA NG when we involved in a 100 yr ice storm and it was CAP that kept the Atlanta hospitals supplied with meds and medical personnel by transporting them to and from work as well as bringing in medical supplies from the warehouses around the city. Dont know if any of the NG awards were given to CAP members for their work during the hurricanes but this certainly helps to recognize personnel in these events. But its not something CAP has any control over.

[DNall]

You'd get humanitatian service is you were also in the mil, everyone did. There were a lot of unit citations flying around too if you worked with someone during the award period. None of that is awarded to civilians though, so tough luck, and htat's too bad, cause that'd be a much better way to recognize people.

[RiverAux]

How about "O" and "S" devices instead? 

And you were making fun of me for bringing up a CG Aux policy related to a CAP discussion we were having....