Uniform board 2012

[jhsmith400]

We heard for months that there was to be a report on uniform "re-structuring" in the August meeting,...so what was the result?  Knowing this is CAP talk I'll now run and hide and watch for the answers.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Until Ned tells us what he knows, everything is rumour and hearsay.

I will say that I don't believe there to be any changes, except to entrench the colour grey and the blazer and no headgear for the G/W.  No changes to the AF uniform, because that would require AF approval.

On another thread Ned said the request for the ABU's is in process, but that does not mean we get them.

[jhsmith400]

Actually I really don't care about the ABU's I could wear it anyways at the moment, due to my own issues, but I was curious as what was going and what was staying, I agree I doubt there will be much change either, though it would be nice to have one shade of gray for the folks that have to(like me), or want to wear that instead of the rainbow of shades and style we now have.

[jhsmith400]

sorry couldn't

[Garibaldi]

Actually I really don't care about the ABU's I could wear it anyways at the moment, due to my own issues, but I was curious as what was going and what was staying, I agree I doubt there will be much change either, though it would be nice to have one shade of gray for the folks that have to(like me), or want to wear that instead of the rainbow of shades and style we now have.

What gets me is that I have seen myriad personal choices when it comes to SM uniforms. I have seen AF blues shirts with gray slacks, white aviator shirt with gray cargo-style pants, blue golf shirt with khaki cargo pants.

[Rick-DEL]

Personally, I would prefer the ABU's. When it comes to uniform replacement, I find it harder to find decent BDU offerings in my local Army/Navy surplus. I really do not want to spend a ton at Vanguard for BDU's, and finding them for my son is a challenge (kid sizes are rare it seems). The ones we find are mostly tattered and torn. I had a few pairs left over from my USAF days that I can use, but they are weathered a bit (stationed in Hawaii/South Carolina). I did notice all the new ABU's the surplus store has in great condition.

Oh well, just a personal preference.

[Eclipse]

Anyone know when search will be back up and working again?

[SarDragon]

Anyone know when search will be back up and working again?

Works for me. How didn't it work?

[Eclipse]

Anyone know when search will be back up and working again?

Works for me. How didn't it work?

Well, it must be down if someone is going to start a new thread about both ABU's and the Conference, right?

Because there's about 4 active threads on those topics.

[a2capt]

No, it's working perfectly. People need to stop taking over every thread, there's more to the board/conference than just uniforms and degrees.

Cat litter has nothing to do with ICUT either.

[KirkF22]

So they did or didn't announce anything about the ABU wear?

[Eclipse]

So they did or didn't announce anything about the ABU wear?

The NUC did deliver their brief, but there are no immediate changes to share.  NHQ is working up a package to go forward to the Office of the Secretary of Defense to receive a waiver / authorization to wear ABUs.  My personal guess is that such a request will be granted, but we are talking about a lengthy beaurocratic journey either way.

In any event, watch for the Executive Summary on the NHQ website.  Should be out soon.

[KirkF22]

So they did or didn't announce anything about the ABU wear?

The NUC did deliver their brief, but there are no immediate changes to share.  NHQ is working up a package to go forward to the Office of the Secretary of Defense to receive a waiver / authorization to wear ABUs.  My personal guess is that such a request will be granted, but we are talking about a lengthy beaurocratic journey either way.

I'm
In any event, watch for the Executive Summary on the NHQ website.  Should be out soon.

I'm a bit confused of what Ned is saying. So ABU need to be approved by the Office of the Secretary Defence before CAP gets approved?

[Eclipse]

Yes, and it won't be a generic approval, presumably it would have to be approved with whatever CAP "adds / moves / changes".

As of the above, there isn't even a completed proposal to submit up the chain.

[jhsmith400]

My fault I only wanted to find out what the NUC report said. I did not want to know anything about the current 800 pound gorilla on CAPtalk (aka ABU'S).  Should have known better

[SARDOC]

Anyone know when search will be back up and working again?

I know you're shocked.  I'm shocked that this thread was started more than 6 hours ago and we aren't 6 pages deep into the same discussions.

[jhsmith400]

the dead horse is truly dead maybe.

[capmaj]

But stating what is probably the obvious here.................. before adding yet another uniform to our inventory,( and without going into whether or not we need any particular uniform), shouldn't we be more concerned with updating and refining 39-1?

[BGNightfall]

^ No.  And I'll thank you not to suggest such radical and unnecessary revisions to CAP policy. 

Now, where was that permanent ICL detailing the wear of each wing's state flag immediately below the US flag on the Tiger Stripes, the boonie hat with subdued rank pinned on, and the newest Grey/White service uniform coat with sleeve rings (a la McPeak) and bright red epaulets?

[badger bob]

[So ABU need to be approved by the Office of the Secretary Defence before CAP gets approved?]
The decision to restrict all Battle Dress Uniforms to authorized personnel was made at SECDEF level.  All other noncombat affiliated orginizations were restricted at the same time. Any changes  will have to be authorized at SECDEF level. The last change was that CAP was again allowed to request and wear Woodland BDUs and several other agencies were allowed to request Desert BDU (Desert Storm 1 pattern). CAP was not authorized for current Battle Dress Uniforms because they do not carry a DOD combat role.

Be careful what you wish for. Because ABU is still a currently issued uniform there would be no "free surplus" uniforms for CAP. That would mean all 62,000 members would need to PURCHASE new uniforms and toss the uniforms they may have already purchased. Vanguard and AFES do not give trade-in credit.

[Eclipse]

Be careful what you wish for. Because ABU is still a currently issued uniform there would be no "free surplus" uniforms for CAP. That would mean all 62,000 members would need to PURCHASE new uniforms and toss the uniforms they may have already purchased. Vanguard and AFES do not give trade-in credit.

Not even by 1/2, and not for (likely) at least 2 years after the authorization (if not longer).

[PHall]

Be careful what you wish for. Because ABU is still a currently issued uniform there would be no "free surplus" uniforms for CAP. That would mean all 62,000 members would need to PURCHASE new uniforms and toss the uniforms they may have already purchased. Vanguard and AFES do not give trade-in credit.

There are ABU's at DRMO already. Remember, the Air Force has been wearing the uniform for over three years now.

[Eeyore]

It's getting to the point where you are more likely to find surplus ABU/ACU/whatever else, than you are BDUs.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

This is very true. I had a really hard time finding a good set of BDUs in the local surplus store here just south of Texarkana. Something does need to Halle soon, even if it takes a whole five year phase in to require everyone to change over. VG pricing for a set of BDUs is rediculous, you may as well slender a couple bucks extra for a set of ABUs.

[Pylon]

Surplus at our local ANG unit is all ABUs being turned in.  No statistically-significant numbers of BDUs for years.

[Eclipse]

This is very true. I had a really hard time finding a good set of BDUs in the local surplus store here just south of Texarkana. Something does need to Halle soon, even if it takes a whole five year phase in to require everyone to change over. VG pricing for a set of BDUs is rediculous, you may as well slender a couple bucks extra for a set of ABUs.

VG pricing for BDU's is about the same as every other vendor online.

~ $ 64 for winter weight

~$ 44 for summer weight

Depending on what material you buy, they are about 10% more then bdu.com (though bdu.com has more options, both less and more expensive).

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Yes, an I found some really nice looking ABUs at the local surplus for 70 when I asked about BDUs they said we have plenty of ABUs, but only three new pairs of BDUs, and nothing in long regular... Luckily for some reason they had a pair marked as medium short that Were quite a bit longer than medium regular, for... Wait for it... 60 total. But I won't be able to buy another pair from them, as they have informed me they want be buying any more as there is no demand for them anymore.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Yes, an I found some really nice looking ABUs at the local surplus for 70 when I asked about BDUs they said we have plenty of ABUs, but only three new pairs of BDUs, and nothing in long regular... Luckily for some reason they had a pair marked as medium short that Were quite a bit longer than medium regular, for... Wait for it... 60 total. But I won't be able to buy another pair from them, as they have informed me they want be buying any more as there is no demand for them anymore.

What the hunting/redneck/urban crowd moved on as well?

[Garibaldi]

I have seen BDUs at pawn shops frequented by hunters.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I have seen BDUs at pawn shops frequented by hunters.

Probably pawning for money to get the digitals.

[Hawk200]

I have seen BDUs at pawn shops frequented by hunters.

Probably pawning for money to get the digitals.

:clap:

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Use some thought about the hunters... There is now mossy oak and realtree. They come in a wide variety of weights and designs, why would they use BDUs?

[cap235629]

Looks like the BDU is here to stay!!!! 
WOODLAND CAMO TO RETURN

[Garibaldi]

Looks like the BDU is here to stay!!!! 
WOODLAND CAMO TO RETURN

Ummm...I love how they say that they won't issue the new uniform to those who HAD BDUs...AFAIK most of those uniforms were sold, given away or trashed by soldiers and airmen after the new uniforms came out.

[Brad]

I call BS, and here's why: I've seen that photo before. Where? Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BDUs-forest.jpg It's tied to the article about the M81 Camouflage here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M81_Woodland  (even CAP gets a mention...of course bringing up the ABU horse again)

But back to the photo...look at the caption:

Sgt. Zachary Sarver (center) and Spc. Gary Vandenbos (left) negotiate with a role-playing inebriated woodsman whose land their patrol passed through during a field training portion of Exercise Peaceshield 2000 in Yavoriv, Ukraine, on July 16, 2000. Approximately 1000 soldiers from 22 countries are taking part in the peacekeeping training exercise at the Partnership for Peace Training Center at Yavoriv. Sarver and Vandenbos are attached to Bravo Company, 2nd Battalion, 130th Infantry, Illinois Army National Guard. DoD photo by Staff Sgt. Chris Steffen, U.S. Air Force. (Released)

Bolding mine. Photo was then uploaded 5-3-2006. The source DoD link is so old it doesn't even work anymore!!

[PHall]

I call BS, and here's why: I've seen that photo before. Where? Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BDUs-forest.jpg It's tied to the article about the M81 Camouflage here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M81_Woodland  (even CAP gets a mention...of course bringing up the ABU horse again)

But back to the photo...look at the caption:

Sgt. Zachary Sarver (center) and Spc. Gary Vandenbos (left) negotiate with a role-playing inebriated woodsman whose land their patrol passed through during a field training portion of Exercise Peaceshield 2000 in Yavoriv, Ukraine, on July 16, 2000. Approximately 1000 soldiers from 22 countries are taking part in the peacekeeping training exercise at the Partnership for Peace Training Center at Yavoriv. Sarver and Vandenbos are attached to Bravo Company, 2nd Battalion, 130th Infantry, Illinois Army National Guard. DoD photo by Staff Sgt. Chris Steffen, U.S. Air Force. (Released)

Bolding mine. Photo was then uploaded 5-3-2006. The source DoD link is so old it doesn't even work anymore!!

Does the fact that the author of this piece is "Dirk Diggler" give you a small clue?

[Brad]

Yea yea, I'm in the middle of setting up a virtual LAN, so only half-read the article. Re-read it, I get it.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Half of wiki items might as well be written by Topsy Krets... 

[SPD6696]

Duffleblog is a satire website, like the Onion network...

[Garibaldi]

Duffleblog is a satire website, like the Onion network...

You know, I was wondering that myself, if they were getting their source material from the Onion or something similar.

[AirDX]

Looks like the BDU is here to stay!!!! 
WOODLAND CAMO TO RETURN

Ummm...I love how they say that they won't issue the new uniform to those who HAD BDUs...AFAIK most of those uniforms were sold, given away or trashed by soldiers and airmen after the new uniforms came out.

Kids, kids, this is the Duffleblog... it's satire.   Kinda like the Onion.

[AngelWings]

Duffleblog is the best website ever!

[arajca]

A couple comments on the power point from the NUC:
1. Process still allows any level to "lose" any ideas they do not like, instead of responding with a "OK. I'll send it up" or "No. You're smoking something funny". The black hole problem has not been resolved for the regular member. There is a partial timeline for the NUC to work through ideas once they get them, but nothing to encourage lower levels to review and process suggestions in a timely fashion. IMO, there needs to be some requirement for each level to respond within a set timeframe (15 days? 21 days?) to the member with a status - approved and forwarded, not approved because ________, or I need more information on your idea.

2. Is there a plan to inform the field of the changes made at the August  2011 NB? How about the Winter 2012 NB? Apparently, one of my peeves was resolved last year, but NO ONE TOLD THE MEMBERS IN THE FIELD!

3. Since the power point apparently lists items approved by the NB, can it be used as justification to follow what's on it?


Yeah, I know. How dare I drag a uniform discussion back on topic.

[a2capt]

On "#1", that, admittedly, is the absolute biggest weakness of this organization.

No timeline on the suspenses, and that anyone can just toss it, lose it, or whatever because they don't like it, while it might have merit and should make it to the right level.

Of course the opposite of that argument is the right level rejected it.

I know, I could suggest we wear pink tu-tu's on ES missions due to visibility and that should be shot down, perhaps I should be 2B'ed for suggesting it.. so that validates the argument. However, the system should allow me to put forth something, and appeal it to one more level perhaps. But it should have a timeline attached to it.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The "black hole" effect is one reason why I have not submitted a minimum-change idea, which would be to change the white aviator shirt to a civilian blue one, widely available at pilot shops online, and manufactured by Van Heusen and a host of others.  It's exactly the same as what we have now...only the colour is different.



I also have ideas for headgear, which I have aired here before and will not do so again.

[PHall]

On "#1", that, admittedly, is the absolute biggest weakness of this organization.

No timeline on the suspenses, and that anyone can just toss it, lose it, or whatever because they don't like it, while it might have merit and should make it to the right level.

Of course the opposite of that argument is the right level rejected it.

I know, I could suggest we wear pink tu-tu's on ES missions due to visibility and that should be shot down, perhaps I should be 2B'ed for suggesting it.. so that validates the argument. However, the system should allow me to put forth something, and appeal it to one more level perhaps. But it should have a timeline attached to it.

The CAP policy mirrors the USAF policy. You were expecting something different?
Remember, this is a para-military organization, everybody does NOT get to voice their opinion on everything.
You want to have YOUR opinion count? Become a Commander...

[Eclipse]

2. Is there a plan to inform the field of the changes made at the August  2011 NB? How about the Winter 2012 NB? Apparently, one of my peeves was resolved last year, but NO ONE TOLD THE MEMBERS IN THE FIELD!

Aside from being impressed when I saw your name, this was the most disappointing - clearly decisions have been made, yet no one
is telling the membership.

This presentation has the same lack of speakers notes that the others have, so some of the slides are difficult to decipher.

[Spaceman3750]

People need to stop treating surplus stores as legitimate supply sources when deciding how scarce BDUs are. They're convenient, but nobody cares whether or not you can get them at your local shop because our official uniform vendor continues to carry them. Saying that we should get rid of BDUs because you can't find them at surplus any more (while our uniform vendor continues to supply them) makes about as much sense as me saying that we should switch from the polo because I can't find it at WalMart (Vanguard is the only source).

That said, I think we should switch, but the argument most folks are throwing out simply doesn't hold water.

[Eclipse]

People need to stop treating surplus stores as legitimate supply sources when deciding how scarce BDUs are. They're convenient, but nobody cares whether or not you can get them at your local shop because our official uniform vendor continues to carry them. Saying that we should get rid of BDUs because you can't find them at surplus any more (while our uniform vendor continues to supply them) makes about as much sense as me saying that we should switch from the polo because I can't find it at WalMart (Vanguard is the only source).

I agree - by far the majority of members have never been on a military base, never received anything from DRMO, and surplus stores these days are few
and far between.  Up until recently, a far too large chunk though The Hock was actually CAP's official supplier.

There's plenty of non-CAP agencies wearing woodland, a few specialized military units still using them, and I can get whatever I need (even big-boy sizes) overnighted from / to anywhere in the world for a decent price.

Not to mention that in average CAP use, with proper care, a set of BDU's, no matter what flavor, can last the lifetime of a member.   These are designed to be combat field uniforms worn 24x7 in extreme environments.  We wear them once a week for a few hours at most, maybe a couple missions, and
perhaps a week or two at NESA.  I have 10 year old BDU's and 5+ year old blue field uniforms that look like new, even though they've been heavily (CAP) worn.

No shortage unless you decide to pretend there's one.

[Garibaldi]

I have 10 year old BDU's and 5+ year old blue field uniforms that look like new, even though they've been heavily (CAP) worn.

I have a set of BDUs that I've had since the late 90s that are still very serviceable and in use to this day. Darn things last just about forever.

[arajca]

On "#1", that, admittedly, is the absolute biggest weakness of this organization.

No timeline on the suspenses, and that anyone can just toss it, lose it, or whatever because they don't like it, while it might have merit and should make it to the right level.

Of course the opposite of that argument is the right level rejected it.

I know, I could suggest we wear pink tu-tu's on ES missions due to visibility and that should be shot down, perhaps I should be 2B'ed for suggesting it.. so that validates the argument. However, the system should allow me to put forth something, and appeal it to one more level perhaps. But it should have a timeline attached to it.

The CAP policy mirrors the USAF policy. You were expecting something different?
Remember, this is a para-military organization, everybody does NOT get to voice their opinion on everything.
You want to have YOUR opinion count? Become a Commander...

The issue is not that we expect our ideas to be adopted, but to at least get the courtesy of a rejection note, instead of leaving it hanging out there and no one will admit they rejected it, because after three years, they just "haven't gotten around to reviewing it."

[RADIOMAN015]

On "#1", that, admittedly, is the absolute biggest weakness of this organization.

No timeline on the suspenses, and that anyone can just toss it, lose it, or whatever because they don't like it, while it might have merit and should make it to the right level.

Of course the opposite of that argument is the right level rejected it.

I know, I could suggest we wear pink tu-tu's on ES missions due to visibility and that should be shot down, perhaps I should be 2B'ed for suggesting it.. so that validates the argument. However, the system should allow me to put forth something, and appeal it to one more level perhaps. But it should have a timeline attached to it.

The CAP policy mirrors the USAF policy. You were expecting something different?
Remember, this is a para-military organization, everybody does NOT get to voice their opinion on everything.
You want to have YOUR opinion count? Become a Commander...

The issue is not that we expect our ideas to be adopted, but to at least get the courtesy of a rejection note, instead of leaving it hanging out there and no one will admit they rejected it, because after three years, they just "haven't gotten around to reviewing it."

Yes, I believe an answer back to the volunteer (one way or the other) would show the proper "respect".   That's why the AF has a suggestion program that allows personnel to make suggestions and they do get a formal answer.
RM

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^^This is true.

However, it works for the USAF because they have people who can order other people to get with the programme and get those ideas considered and get responses back to the people who make the proposals.  We don't have that, though it would be nice if we did.

[Eclipse]

We actually do have that, we just don't enforce it.

[arajca]

If you think about, a system is already in place. Look at how the CAP Driver's License system works. Member fills out form online and uploads documents. Member's commander is notified to approve or deny. If approved, next higher commander is notified. And on up the chain.

Applying this to uniform suggestions:
Member fills out form with check boxes for which uniform suggestion is for, includes a brief (100-150 word summary), and uploads a formal proposal.
Member's commander receives a notification of uniform suggestion pending. Command approves or rejects. Rejection includes a mandatory "This is why it was rejected" section.
If approved, next higher commander is notified. Etc.
Change the final destination from Ops Quals to CAP/DP.
Add a 14 day review period, daily nags after that, and an automatic 30 day approval.

Next project.

[PHall]

On "#1", that, admittedly, is the absolute biggest weakness of this organization.

No timeline on the suspenses, and that anyone can just toss it, lose it, or whatever because they don't like it, while it might have merit and should make it to the right level.

Of course the opposite of that argument is the right level rejected it.

I know, I could suggest we wear pink tu-tu's on ES missions due to visibility and that should be shot down, perhaps I should be 2B'ed for suggesting it.. so that validates the argument. However, the system should allow me to put forth something, and appeal it to one more level perhaps. But it should have a timeline attached to it.

The CAP policy mirrors the USAF policy. You were expecting something different?
Remember, this is a para-military organization, everybody does NOT get to voice their opinion on everything.
You want to have YOUR opinion count? Become a Commander...

The issue is not that we expect our ideas to be adopted, but to at least get the courtesy of a rejection note, instead of leaving it hanging out there and no one will admit they rejected it, because after three years, they just "haven't gotten around to reviewing it."

Yes, I believe an answer back to the volunteer (one way or the other) would show the proper "respect".   That's why the AF has a suggestion program that allows personnel to make suggestions and they do get a formal answer.
RM

But the AF Suggestion Program is not used to suggest changes to the Air Force uniform. That's a seperate program.
And your Commander does not have to tell you what ever happened to your uniform suggestion. Though the good ones will tell you.
That's one of the things that make them "good". They're accountable to their troops.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I have worn BDUs as a cadet, infantry soldier, and as a senior member. As a cadet I needed a new set of BDUs about every three months for them to fit correctly. Do you think I would have paid vanguard prices?  If so, your nuts. I got them very easily at surplus, brand new less than vanguard, and no shipping. As a soldier, I DXd. BDUs about... Every three months. As a senior member, I have been using up a pair of BDUs about every seven or eight months. I do a lot of Es training, and I don't want to pay vanguard prices still. But I rip holes into the pants and jackets all the time, BDUs are not an invincible uniform. I hunt and Peck around for better prices. Plus at surplus I can make sure I get a pair that matches. I ordered one pair from vanguard and decided I was never doing it again, they arrived very fast, but they Were obviously from different batches, the jacket did not match the pants at all, I sent them back with a nice letter explaining that they did not match. It took about three weeks to get back a set that matched... Not going through that again.

But to a pilot or someone who is not heavily involved in Es, I could see them lasting a really long time. But those of us who go through uniforms faster Ned to b brought into confirmation. Congratulations to those of you who can get a uniform to last ten years. But I can make a uniform unserviceable in a matter of months.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I think you may have other issues with BDUs. Nothing done normally in CAP would cause a cadet or a SM to go through a set every 7-8 months, and especially 3 months.

[AngelWings]

I think you may have other issues with BDUs. Nothing done normally in CAP would cause a cadet or a SM to go through a set every 7-8 months, and especially 3 months.

In my local forest, I've had pants rip from thorns and things. Huge thorns. I've also gotten rust, grease, and avgas on my uniform from being around older structures. No squadron is alike, and everyone has different experiences.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I think you may have other issues with BDUs. Nothing done normally in CAP would cause a cadet or a SM to go through a set every 7-8 months, and especially 3 months.

In my local forest, I've had pants rip from thorns and things. Huge thorns. I've also gotten rust, grease, and avgas on my uniform from being around older structures. No squadron is alike, and everyone has different experiences.

If something like that is happening every 10 meetings or so, then you need to work on situational awareness.

[AngelWings]

I think you may have other issues with BDUs. Nothing done normally in CAP would cause a cadet or a SM to go through a set every 7-8 months, and especially 3 months.

In my local forest, I've had pants rip from thorns and things. Huge thorns. I've also gotten rust, grease, and avgas on my uniform from being around older structures. No squadron is alike, and everyone has different experiences.

If something like that is happening every 10 meetings or so, then you need to work on situational awareness.

While grease, avgas, and rust is very rare, thorns are not. Sadly, I am not Chuck Norris, so they do get in my way. Especially since my squadron has been gifted with a grass field and forest very close by, both of which are absolutely perfect for ES.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I take it you Were never a cadets and grew out of your uniforms a lot.

As of now, being a SM, I do Es training a lot, as previously stated. Thorns barbed wire and things of the sort cause uniform issues. It has nothing to do with situational awareness... It has to do with training a lot. There are big thorns around every training site I have ever been to in Indiana, and all around our stomping grounds here in AR.

[AngelWings]

I take it you Were never a cadets and grew out of your uniforms a lot.

As of now, being a SM, I do Es training a lot, as previously stated. Thorns barbed wire and things of the sort cause uniform issues. It has nothing to do with situational awareness... It has to do with training a lot. There are big thorns around every training site I have ever been to in Indiana, and all around our stomping grounds here in AR.

Or guys like me who shrunk and their old uniforms are waay too baggy! We're both in areas wear we have real uniform killers, like thorns. Also, I've seen a few people blow out the crotch stitching before from doing hard work.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Given that my signature has the Earhart ribbon, I think I have been a cadet, and I also grew. BDUs have a RANGE in size. Unless you were growing a foot / 30 lbs per 3 months for a few years, I doubt you needed to change them due to size that often.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Given that my signature has the Earhart ribbon, I think I have been a cadet, and I also grew. BDUs have a RANGE in size. Unless you were growing a foot / 30 lbs per 3 months for a few years, I doubt you needed to change them due to size that often.

I never really looked at your sign image, but yeah, I grew kinda rapidly. But there was more to replacing uniforms as a cadet than just growing, I did ES as a cadet too. So throw both in, that's a lot of uniform changes.

At any rate,  it is still a burden trying to replace uniforms when they aren't kept in decent stock locally, and you have to pay ten to fifteen extra dollars and then add shipping on top to get them from VG.

[Майор Хаткевич]

BDU.com

[manfredvonrichthofen]

BDU.com

Still costs more than local surplus, plus shipping, and genuine brand seems to be of Rothcoish quality.