CAP Counter Drug in the News

[blackrain]

Looks like Cap CD is in the news....and the drought is helping to reveal more of the marijuana crop....

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-08-22/marijuana-plants-drought/57203590/1

[Critical AOA]

Shhhhhh..... we are supposed to be covert. 

[blackrain]

I really liked the irony of "covert" 

[Flying Pig]

They pulled 30 plants by noon?   Where I am we dont even bother unless its over 1000.  You ever seen MJ plants that are bigger than orange trees with about 30lbs of bud on them? 

[Garibaldi]

I seem to remember some debate about using corporate assets to do CD missions awhile back, mainly because if some grower happened to look up and saw a CAP plane flying over his fields...and pulled out his gun...or decided to pay a "social visit" to his local CAP unit...there'd be trouble. I guess we solved that little problem, huh...

[Eclipse]

CD = Character Development.

Counter Narcotics = CN.

I seem to remember some debate about using corporate assets to do CDN missions...

That was hay made by people who didn't understand the question.

[Flying Pig]

Debate?   Been doing it for 20yrs.   None of this is new.

Eclipse, sorry man, Its referred to as the CD Program all throughout CAP.  Heck, I even have a CAP Counter Drug Medal with 4 bronze clasps!  There may be places that call it CN, but even the CAP documents related to it are "Counter Drug".  Even the screening Form CAP Form 83 is the "Civil Air Patrol Counter Drug Program Application"

[bflynn]

I really liked the irony of "covert" 

what's the irony of covert?

During WWII, American submarines were pretty successful in escaping counter-attacks.  Senator Andrew May of Kentucky held a press conference where he revealed that the reason was because the Japanese were setting their depth charges too shallow, so they were exploding before they got down to our submarines.  As a result, the Japanese altered their depth charges to explode deeper.  Admiral Lockwood estimated that May's lack of discretion probably led to the loss of 10 more submarines and about 800 men (20% of the total for the war).

Loose lips really do sink ships. 

The reason you never talk about covert stuff is because then it isn't covert. 

[Eclipse]

Debate?   Been doing it for 20yrs.   None of this is new.

Eclipse, sorry man, Its referred to as the CD Program all throughout CAP.  Heck, I even have a CAP Counter Drug Medal with 4 bronze clasps!  There may be places that call it CN, but even the CAP documents related to it are "Counter Drug".  Even the screening Form CAP Form 83 is the "Civil Air Patrol Counter Drug Program Application"

All forms and docs that pre-date the change in nomenclature.  Like anything else that changes, we need to use the proper terminology so
that the new guys catch on and the incorrect terms eventually dies of attrition.

[blackrain]

I really liked the irony of "covert" 

what's the irony of covert?

During WWII, American submarines were pretty successful in escaping counter-attacks.  Senator Andrew May of Kentucky held a press conference where he revealed that the reason was because the Japanese were setting their depth charges too shallow, so they were exploding before they got down to our submarines.  As a result, the Japanese altered their depth charges to explode deeper.  Admiral Lockwood estimated that May's lack of discretion probably led to the loss of 10 more submarines and about 800 men (20% of the total for the war).

Loose lips really do sink ships. 

The reason you never talk about covert stuff is because then it isn't covert.

I was just referring to the fact that we try so hard to keep things covert yet there it is in the news in black and white. I actually agree with you.

There's an interesting story from WW2 about George Marshall who quietly visited Gov Dewey who was at the time running against Roosevelt in 1944. Gen Marshall was concerned Dewey might try to discredit Roosevelt for missing clues in signal intercepts of Japanese Comms pre Pearl Harbor. Obviously the fact that we were still listening in 1944 was something Marshall wanted to keep secret.

[Critical AOA]

So when was it changed from Counter Drug to Counter Narcotic?  Where is this written at?  In what regulation or other official publication?  The only place I have seen this is here on CAPTalk.

The most recent CAPR 60-1 dated 16April2012 refers to it as Counter Drug.  That is pretty recent.

Also the regulation that directly covers CD, CAPR 60-6, was last updated on  1September2003.  If it really has been changed, shouldn't the main regulation for it have been updated as soon as the announcement was made to call it CN?

[Eclipse]

The evolution of terminology began when the Moral Leadership Program was changed to "Character Development", creating some confusion
of terms and duty.  CD & CN are used interchangeably within both CAP & the DOD, sometimes within the same documents (http://tinyurl.com/9eu2q4k) - that doesn't negate encouraging the use of proper terminology.

VG sells the decoration as the CN ribbon (though that is hardly definitive).

Eservices still refers to it as CD, but that is hardly definitive, either.

Also the regulation that directly covers CD, CAPR 60-6, was last updated on  1September2003.  If it really has been changed, shouldn't the main regulation for it have been updated as soon as the announcement was made to call it CN?

Yes.

CN is also a more correct term - it has nothing to do with "drugs" as a generic.  It is focused on a single substance which is a narcotic in its natural form.

CAP's "anti-drug" program is DDR which deals with all manner of both natural and processed compounds and products, but of course not in an direct interdiction sort of way, but in an abuse prevention perspective.

[Flying Pig]

Evolution of the terminology?  So you mean people started referring to it as that.  Because Ive never heard the program called CN, I was pretty active in it up until last year and still stay pretty up to speed on CAP changes. 

So calling it CD is a preference, not wrong.  I have yet to see any official documents or training referring to the program as CN.

[Eclipse]

Evolution of the terminology?  So you mean people started referring to it as that.  Because Ive never heard the program called CN, I was pretty active in it up until last year and still stay pretty up to speed on CAP changes. 

So calling it CD is a preference, not wrong.  I have yet to see any official documents or training referring to the program as CN.

If by "people" you mean the "DoD as far back as 2004", then simply click the document I referenced above.

That document uses the term specifically in a CAP context, though as I said, it uses both interchangeably.

[Critical AOA]

So again, which CAP regulation or other official publication states that it is no longer to be referred to as CD but as CN?

[Garibaldi]

snip

CAP's "anti-drug" program is DDR which deals with all manner of both natural and processed compounds and products, but of course not in an direct interdiction sort of way, but in an abuse prevention perspective.

Dance Dance Revolution? Deutsche Demokratic Republic? 

[Eclipse]

So again, which CAP regulation or other official publication states that it is no longer to be referred to as CD but as CN?

How about the CAPF 101CN?

[sardak]

Apparently someone else is among the hordes that missed the memo: The National Commander is looking for a qualified member to fill another important National Staff position -- Operational Missions Officer. This position was established to assist the Emergency Services Officer and National Leadership in implementing the goals and vision for all Homeland Security, Counter-drug/Drug Interdiction, and associated special mission functional areas, with special emphasis on the safety of CAP members in the performance of those specialties  http://www.capmembers.com/cap_national_hq/national-staff-position/
********
http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/dod_dictionary/

The DOD Dictionary is managed by the Joint Education and Doctrine Division, J-7, Joint Staff. All approved joint definitions, acronyms, and abbreviations are contained in Joint Publication 1-02, DOD Dictionary of Military and Associated Terms 08 November 2010, as amended through 15 July 2012.

counternarcotics
(DOD) See counterdrug.
Source: JP 3-07.4

counterdrug
(DOD) Those active measures taken to detect, monitor, and counter the production, trafficking, and use of illegal drugs. Also called CD and counternarcotics (CN).
Source: JP 3-07.4

JP 3-07.4, Joint Counterdrug Operations, 13 June 2007
**********

Mike

[Eclipse]

I already granted they are used interchangeably, many times in the same document.

[Critical AOA]

So why do you insist or at least show a strong preference to call it CN when practically no CAP publication calls it that?