Flugtag as a Squadron Activity

[Guardrail]

What do you all think about a Flugtag as a squadron activity.  Anyone here ever been to one?

For those of you who don't know, a flugtag is an event in which competitors attempt to fly in homemade flying machines. The flying machines are usually launched off a pier about 30 feet high into the sea (or suitably sized reservoir of water). Most competitors enter for the entertainment value, and the flying machines rarely fly at all.

Credit: www.wikipedia.org

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flugtag

[DNall]

Sounds great, post video when done.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Jackass -- The CAP Version

[Guardrail]

Jackass -- The CAP Version

           

[Chris Jacobs]

It could be a good aero space project.  I loved watching this when it was here in portland.

[SarDragon]

Well, since you didn't get a good reception on CS, you decided to post it here, too?

YGBSM! The liability issues are enormous. If you want to do something whacked like that, why don't you just go play in traffic?

[shorning]

...why don't you just go play in traffic?

BTDT...it's overrated.

[NIN]

The heck with Flugtag, I'm taking my squadron skydiving....

Photos to follow...

[BillB]

Nin
Ya can't do that. The regulation says you can't throw anything out of corporate aircraft. I think that includes cadets.

[Chris Jacobs]

OK a serious question.  If it wasn't a cooperate air plane and the cadet was of legal age to skydive, could that be a cadet activity.  I am thinking not but i was wondering if there is any thing against it.

Because i don't want to have to use a giant sling shot to get the cadets up that high.  (if you haven't seen the sling shot video on you tube yet you should go check it out.  The set up like a horizontal ejection seat ride with bungee jumping ropes.)

[NIN]

Nin
Ya can't do that. The regulation says you can't throw anything out of corporate aircraft. I think that includes cadets.

60-1 need not apply!

Seriously, photos will follow after the activity.

[NIN]

OK a serious question.  If it wasn't a cooperate air plane and the cadet was of legal age to skydive, could that be a cadet activity.  I am thinking not but i was wondering if there is any thing against it.

Because i don't want to have to use a giant sling shot to get the cadets up that high.  (if you haven't seen the sling shot video on you tube yet you should go check it out.  The set up like a horizontal ejection seat ride with bungee jumping ropes.)

CAPR 52-16, para 1-4d

d. Parachuting & Ultralight Vehicles. Cadets may not parachute, para-sail or engage in similar activities at a CAP activity. Flying ultralights, aerolights or any similar vehicle is also prohibited at CAP activities (see CAPR 60-1, CAP Flight Management).

I'm guessing that if paintball is considered a "no-go" along with skydiving, other un-named activities such as  bungee jumping, BASE jumping, slingshotting, etc, must be similarly verböten.

Plus, in most states, you have to be 18 to jump.   Most cadets are < 18

So yes, as an official activity, skydiving is out. 

But wait for the pictures...

[lordmonar]

The heck with Flugtag, I'm taking my squadron skydiving....

Photos to follow...

Why not sky diving from an ultra-light with boonie hats and a paint gun.  We can all wear swords too!

[Fifinella]

Why not sky diving from an ultra-light with boonie hats and a paint gun.  We can all wear swords too!

Only if you're wearing something orange. 

[lordmonar]

Why not sky diving from an ultra-light with boonie hats and a paint gun.  We can all wear swords too!

Only if you're wearing something orange. 

The parachutes could be orange. 

[NIN]

The parachutes could be orange. 

Be a man, orange jump suit.  The parachute needs to stay tactical...

[Guardrail]

Maybe parachutes could be mandated for the Flugtag.

That might reduce some of the liability, eh? 

[lordmonar]

The parachutes could be orange. 

Be a man, orange jump suit.  The parachute needs to stay tactical...

orange jump suits make me look fat. 

[NIN]

orange jump suits make me look fat. 

Then go with black. Its slimming...

[Pylon]

What do you all think about a Flugtag as a squadron activity.  Anyone here ever been to one?

For those of you who don't know, a flugtag is an event in which competitors attempt to fly in homemade flying machines. The flying machines are usually launched off a pier about 30 feet high into the sea (or suitably sized reservoir of water). Most competitors enter for the entertainment value, and the flying machines rarely fly at all.

Credit: www.wikipedia.org

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flugtag

It's ridiculously dangerous.  I can't think of any senior member in his or her right mind who would allow CAP (especially cadet) participation as an entrant in such an event.  Sheer idiocacy.

Want to go as a spectator for morale-boosting and entertainment value?  Sure.  Go ahead.  Have your cadets seriously critique the various designs, and point out their shortcomings, paired with AE instruction on the important elements of what makes a craft airworthy.  That would be kind of similar to the physics classes that go to amusement parks.

But, to aptly quote Dave -- as entrants?  YGTBSM.  But I guess you wouldn't have to worry about doing it as a CAP activity, since you're not a member of CAP.

[lordmonar]

orange jump suits make me look fat. 

Then go with black. Its slimming...

And then can we wear orange berets?

[Major Carrales]

Making kites and hand thrown gliders in CAP is one thing...flying in them in CAP?  Oy!  You are asking for amounts of trouble.

Making and flying model aircraft made from relative scratch, that could have a future.  Making and flying in model aircraft made from relative scratch, that could have a funeral!

[Chris Jacobs]

what if the cadets built the flying contraption, and had some out side of CAP volunteer fly it for them off the dock thing.

[Pylon]

what if the cadets built the flying contraption, and had some out side of CAP volunteer fly it for them off the dock thing.

Severe liability, at the very minimum.  People get injured in something that CAP members built and then asked someone to "fly" in it?   On a more serious possibility, one might find themselves charged with criminally depraved indifference for those hurt in the flugtag contraption.  That aside from any civil suits that the "volunteers" might file against CAP.

Face it -- it's a bad idea for CAP.  It has no merit as a CAP activity nor as a valuable aerospace education opportunity to participate as entrants.  To go and observe the entrants, as spectators only, and try to learn from them sounds like a safe, fun, and educational alternative to me.

[Chris Jacobs]

thats a good point.  I need to think my ideas through a little more.

[ZigZag911]

I suppose we could research and quote chapter and verse, but it just sounds like a bad idea....hopefully you're folks will invest this enthusiasm for AE in something less likely toe end up as a film clip on a reality show about "Amazing Crashes" or the like!

[Al Sayre]

To quote my parents at multiple times in my life:  "If your friends jumed off the bridge would you have to do it too?"  (actually I did... the bridge, the pier, the railroad trestle, pretty much anything high with water under it... )

[Major Carrales]

To quote my parents at multiple times in my life:  "If your friends jumed off the bridge would you have to do it too?"  (actually I did... the bridge, the pier, the railroad trestle, pretty much anything high with water under it... )

Your behind the times, it is now said...

""If your friends jump off the bridge...what time do they meet?"

[NIN]

To quote my parents at multiple times in my life:  "If your friends jumed off the bridge would you have to do it too?"  (actually I did... the bridge, the pier, the railroad trestle, pretty much anything high with water under it... )

I did that and sent my mom the video.  "Hey, mom, there were 299 other idiots jumping off this bridge, so I did too!"

[MississippiFlyboy]

I had the pleasure of "flying" one of these last summer at West Point Lake in Georgia with all the old college buddies.  They have since been removed from the market as "extremely dangerous." I can't imagine why???

This IMHO would be a good safe Aerospace Ed activity for cadets and seniors alike 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzmVgMC6YJs

Enjoy !!!

Disclaimer: don't try this at home I am a PROFESSIONAL kite pilot. Now all I need are CAP Kite wings.   

[DNall]

I had the pleasure of "flying" one of these last summer at West Point Lake in Georgia with all the old college buddies.  They have since been removed from the market as "extremely dangerous." I can't imagine why???

This IMHO would be a good safe Aerospace Ed activity for cadets and seniors alike 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzmVgMC6YJs

Enjoy !!!

Disclaimer: don't try this at home I am a PROFESSIONAL kite pilot. Now all I need are CAP Kite wings.  

Ouch!

I wouldn't worry about liability on the flugtag. Let cadets build it & you ride it, watch over thier shoulders so they don't kill you, & wear some safety gear. After you hit, you can count it for airframe water exit training.

[afgeo4]

Have the cadets build the contraption as an AE project and then have the AE educators (Senior Members) fly the thing. There's nothing in the regs that prohibits our Officers from doing it.

[RiverAux]

Exactly why is having cadets build something that can't fly a great aerospace education activity?  It may be a whole lot of fun, but lets not kid ourselves about this being some sort of educational event. 

    Keep in mind that CAP can't sponsor airshows     

[ZigZag911]

Have the cadets build the contraption as an AE project and then have the AE educators (Senior Members) fly the thing. There's nothing in the regs that prohibits our Officers from doing it.

It's a question of whether it is unsafe for cadets, or simply unsafe.

If the latter, no one ought to fly in or on it.

Build it by all means; test as an UAV, or with a 'crash dummy' aboard, like they do on "Mythbusters".

[SJFedor]

*BUMP*

Anyone coming to Nashville in June for the event? I'm hoping to take some cadets from my squadron to watch.

Should be entertaining!

[Major Lord]

The Red Bull people have safety swimmers and boats in the water. falling 30 feet into the water is not terrible risk. I would consider the building and design of such a craft as a Cadet/Senior AE project, but the flying would have to be done by a senior and there is no way it could be an official CAP event.

We considered building a full scale model of the classic wind-up balsa wood airplane, with a pedal wound surgical rubber tube array as a power plant ( the rules say human powered, so we thought we might be able to cheat by storing pilot power into rubber bands) 90 pound female pilot SM volunteered to pilot the thing. The idea also called for a fall away wheel carriage, since like Al Quaida, FlugTag airplanes are not much on landings....

Most Flugtag entries are like telephone booths with a guy inside running off the end of a pier. Flying is not actually expected or even encouraged.

It sounds like the response to the flugtag design is about 50/50 : Great idea, and you'll break your neck and get us all sued! Wait, do you hear that? Thats Billy Mitchell rolling in his grave!

Capt. Lord

[NIN]

The heck with Flugtag, I'm taking my squadron skydiving....

Photos to follow...

BTW, we were Mission Complete on this on 8 March. I need to get the article published. Look for a blurb in the next Volunteer.

[Eagle400]

*BUMP*

Anyone coming to Nashville in June for the event? I'm hoping to take some cadets from my squadron to watch.

Should be entertaining!

When is it?  I will be in Nashville later this month. 

[floridacyclist]

what if the cadets built the flying contraption, and had some out side of CAP volunteer fly it for them off the dock thing.

On the other hand, if you had a standard-weight inanimate payload for all participants, you might be onto something here. Limit the overall weight to something less dangerous (and huge) with a clear field of fire downrange and see whose goes the furthest.