How long for Lvl 3 to show up?

[Private Investigator]

This is just one of my pet peeves.

I don't understand the requirment for two wing conferences.

Because we all know the Senior Member 1st Lt who took SLS, CLC, UCC, RSC in one summer and is still a NOOB! I am thinking with two wing conferences under your belt you got to have been around a little and have gain something thru osmosis.

[NCRblues]

This is just one of my pet peeves.

I don't understand the requirment for two wing conferences.

Because we all know the Senior Member 1st Lt who took SLS, CLC, UCC, RSC in one summer and is still a NOOB! I am thinking with two wing conferences under your belt you got to have been around a little and have gain something thru osmosis.

Considering you can go to more than once conference a year... it does not say it has to be your wing...heck you could go to your wings, your region's and the summer national board conference all in one year....

[jeders]

This is just one of my pet peeves.

I don't understand the requirment for two wing conferences.

Because we all know the Senior Member 1st Lt who took SLS, CLC, UCC, RSC in one summer and is still a NOOB! I am thinking with two wing conferences under your belt you got to have been around a little and have gain something thru osmosis.

Considering you can go to more than once conference a year... it does not say it has to be your wing...heck you could go to your wings, your region's and the summer national board conference all in one year....

I personally went to the OKWG conference one weekend and the TXWG conference the next. Now I was in CAP for many years at that point, so I was far from being a noob, but anyone could bust out level 3 with conferences in almost no time and still be wet behind the ears.

[SARDOC]

Because we all know the Senior Member 1st Lt who took SLS, CLC, UCC, RSC in one summer and is still a NOOB! I am thinking with two wing conferences under your belt you got to have been around a little and have gain something thru osmosis.

Why are you talking about me like that? 

I actually enrolled in RSC while still a 2dLt.  for my two conferences I did the one in my wing and my neighboring wing.  I asked for emails from organizers from each conference verifying my attendance...they were more than happy to oblige.  Submitted them when I got my level 3 and nobody looked twice.

[Dad2-4]

I attended my first wing conference when I had been a member for less than a year, and in my original wing although I had moved to another wing by then. I attended the original wing's conference again the following year. That was 8 and 9 years ago and I don't have any material proof that I was there. I hope that doesn't become a problem because if so my PD in CAP may come to a full stop, permanently.

[Pylon]

I attended my first wing conference when I had been a member for less than a year, and in my original wing although I had moved to another wing by then. I attended the original wing's conference again the following year. That was 8 and 9 years ago and I don't have any material proof that I was there. I hope that doesn't become a problem because if so my PD in CAP may come to a full stop, permanently.

Luckily, proof isn't required.  Fill in the dates of the conferences you attended on your CAPF 24 and submit it to your chain of command.  As long as your commander is satisfied and signs it, you're good to go.  There's no actual requirement that documentation be provided at any point to anybody at any echelon processing your request for Level III.

[EMT-83]

CAPR 50-17 2-5e. Members submit applications for awards on CAPF 24, Application for Senior Member Professional Development Award. Documentation (certificates, diplomas, etc.) need not be attached if the member's online record shows completion of requirements. A member submitting an application for an award whose achievements do not appear on their online record must attach copies of supporting documents. NHQ/DP returns applications not supported by the member's record entries or documentation.


If documentation doesn't show in eServices, it needs to be attached. This ain't rocket surgery.

[Ed Bos]

CAPR 50-17 2-5e. Members submit applications for awards on CAPF 24, Application for Senior Member Professional Development Award. Documentation (certificates, diplomas, etc.) need not be attached if the member's online record shows completion of requirements. A member submitting an application for an award whose achievements do not appear on their online record must attach copies of supporting documents. NHQ/DP returns applications not supported by the member's record entries or documentation.


If documentation doesn't show in eServices, it needs to be attached. This ain't rocket surgery.

Conference attendance isn't an achievement. There's no certificate for it, there's no diploma for it, and creating an additional requirement for Participation Letters (if you insist on referring to et cetera) is uncalled for by the 50-17.

[davidsinn]

CAPR 50-17 2-5e. Members submit applications for awards on CAPF 24, Application for Senior Member Professional Development Award. Documentation (certificates, diplomas, etc.) need not be attached if the member's online record shows completion of requirements. A member submitting an application for an award whose achievements do not appear on their online record must attach copies of supporting documents. NHQ/DP returns applications not supported by the member's record entries or documentation.


If documentation doesn't show in eServices, it needs to be attached. This ain't rocket surgery.

Conference attendance isn't an achievement. There's no certificate for it, there's no diploma for it, and creating an additional requirement for Participation Letters (if you insist on referring to et cetera) is uncalled for by the 50-17.

The problem is conference attendance is a requirement that's not documented in eServices because NHQ is too busy adding safety crap to it, instead of something useful like fully tracking PD.

[NCRblues]

You know how much it would cost my wing to print out certificates for the conference???

Even a sign in roster is less that accurate... What if someone shows up late and missed the sheet of paper at the front door? Did they not go then?

This is beyond ridiculous. If the squadron commander signs off the on request to update the PD level, then that should be it. Why would wing come back AFTER the person's commander had signed it and say "hey, let me see something that says you went to the conferences"? If it is that big of a question for the person than im going to venture something else is wrong there....

[davidsinn]

You know how much it would cost my wing to print out certificates for the conference???

Even a sign in roster is less that accurate... What if someone shows up late and missed the sheet of paper at the front door? Did they not go then?

This is beyond ridiculous. If the squadron commander signs off the on request to update the PD level, then that should be it. Why would wing come back AFTER the person's commander had signed it and say "hey, let me see something that says you went to the conferences"? If it is that big of a question for the person than im going to venture something else is wrong there....

I make a point of shaking the wing commander's hand when I go to a conference...

[Eclipse]

You know how much it would cost my wing to print out certificates for the conference.

$0

Mail merged email list of .pdfs.

Done.

[davidsinn]

You know how much it would cost my wing to print out certificates for the conference.

$0

Mail merged email list of .pdfs.

Done.

How about sending a form to NHQ and have them post it in eServices and then not have to justify it yourself? Oh wait. We can't, but we can track the fact I sat through another hurricane briefing even though I live in Indiana.

[Private Investigator]

CAPR 50-17 2-5e. Members submit applications for awards on CAPF 24, Application for Senior Member Professional Development Award. Documentation (certificates, diplomas, etc.) need not be attached if the member's online record shows completion of requirements. A member submitting an application for an award whose achievements do not appear on their online record must attach copies of supporting documents. NHQ/DP returns applications not supported by the member's record entries or documentation.


If documentation doesn't show in eServices, it needs to be attached. This ain't rocket surgery.

Conference attendance isn't an achievement. There's no certificate for it, there's no diploma for it, and creating an additional requirement for Participation Letters (if you insist on referring to et cetera) is uncalled for by the 50-17.

Ed,

I do not get it. Are you for conference attendance or you think its a waste of time?

I think Conference attendance makes a member a better member. I know a Senior Member who claims eleven Master ratings but his whole CAP world is his Squadron's HQ. He and many others know very little of CAP besides the urban legends and myths that they hear on meeting nights.

JMHO,

[EMT-83]

Documentation (certificates, diplomas, etc.) need not be attached if the member's online record shows completion of requirements.


It doesn't say achievement; it says "completion of requirements". BTW, this would also include the additional requirements for Level IV and V that aren't tracked on eServices or members using PME.

Good, bad or indifferent, them's the rules.

[Ed Bos]

CAPR 50-17 2-5e. Members submit applications for awards on CAPF 24, Application for Senior Member Professional Development Award. Documentation (certificates, diplomas, etc.) need not be attached if the member's online record shows completion of requirements. A member submitting an application for an award whose achievements do not appear on their online record must attach copies of supporting documents. NHQ/DP returns applications not supported by the member's record entries or documentation.


If documentation doesn't show in eServices, it needs to be attached. This ain't rocket surgery.

Conference attendance isn't an achievement. There's no certificate for it, there's no diploma for it, and creating an additional requirement for Participation Letters (if you insist on referring to et cetera) is uncalled for by the 50-17.

Ed,

I do not get it. Are you for conference attendance or you think its a waste of time?

I think Conference attendance makes a member a better member. I know a Senior Member who claims eleven Master ratings but his whole CAP world is his Squadron's HQ. He and many others know very little of CAP besides the urban legends and myths that they hear on meeting nights.

JMHO,

You certainly don't get it. 

I'm not commenting on the relevance of conferences at all. I'm trying to underscore that there are officers in units and wings out there that create requirements out of thin air (documentation of conference attendance in this case) when the regulation does not call for it. Adding false and unnecessary administrative hurdles hurts the organization.

For those of you keeping score, two points:

A) Conferences are very important to the development of a cadre of senior members and cadets that are well integrated in the program,

B) I've done my best to find a supplement to the 50-17 in any wing that specifies that some form of proof  of conference attendance is required for submission of a CAPF 24 (it's not required by CAPR 50-17).

[Ed Bos]

Documentation (certificates, diplomas, etc.) need not be attached if the member's online record shows completion of requirements.


It doesn't say achievement; it says "completion of requirements". BTW, this would also include the additional requirements for Level IV and V that aren't tracked on eServices or members using PME.

Good, bad or indifferent, them's the rules.

You're ignoring the part about "certificates, diplomas, etc." That statement is specific to coursework that people "graduate" from.

[JeffDG]

Documentation (certificates, diplomas, etc.) need not be attached if the member's online record shows completion of requirements.


It doesn't say achievement; it says "completion of requirements". BTW, this would also include the additional requirements for Level IV and V that aren't tracked on eServices or members using PME.

Good, bad or indifferent, them's the rules.

You're ignoring the part about "certificates, diplomas, etc." That statement is specific to coursework that people "graduate" from.

What part of "etc" are you not getting.  Certificates, diplomas are examples, not meant as an exhaustive list.

"Documentation of completion of requirements"...so:
Are the two Wing, Region or National Conferences a requirement?

If so, the reg calls for documentation of completion of that requirment.  Nobody's making that up, it's just not listed in the exemplar list, which is expressly not complete by the addition of the "etc".  "et al" would also have indicated the same, but is in much less common use than etc.

[MSG Mac]

The local Commander's signature should be enough validate the conference requirement. What ever happened to the paperwork elimination initiative?

[davidsinn]

The local Commander's signature should be enough validate the conference requirement. What ever happened to the paperwork elimination initiative?

Not enough copies of the paperwork was sent up...