How long for Lvl 3 to show up?

[Dad2-4]

I know it's a "it depends" question, but just curious how long it has taken any of you from the time you submit your CAPF 24 until Lvl 3 finally shows up on e-services. I sent my Form 24 to my squadron CC on 7 Jan 2012, so it's only been about 3.5 weeks.

[coudano]

From the time NHQ receives it to the time it posts should be maybe 1 business day.

Chances are pretty good, it's sitting on someone's desk up your chain of command.

[EMT-83]

Just curious, did you enclosed proof of attendance at your two conferences? That one item is a major hold up on Level 3 applications.

[Ed Bos]

Just curious, did you enclosed proof of attendance at your two conferences? That one item is a major hold up on Level 3 applications.

Who holds this up for "proof"? There's no requirement to disclose anything other than dates, according to the regs.

Somebody please point out where it says otherwise, if I'm wrong. This isn't the first time I've heard this, and I'm concerned that some echelons of the ProDev program are adding requirements inconsistently.

[EMT-83]

I do.

Yes, I've had members be less than honest when submitting paperwork. If it isn't written down, it didn't happen.

[Ed Bos]

I do.

Yes, I've had members be less than honest when submitting paperwork. If it isn't written down, it didn't happen.

In what (relevant) position do you serve?

[EMT-83]

Wing DPD.

[ßτε]

Just curious, did you enclosed proof of attendance at your two conferences? That one item is a major hold up on Level 3 applications.

Who holds this up for "proof"? There's no requirement to disclose anything other than dates, according to the regs.

Somebody please point out where it says otherwise, if I'm wrong. This isn't the first time I've heard this, and I'm concerned that some echelons of the ProDev program are adding requirements inconsistently.

CAPR 50-17 2-5e. Members submit applications for awards on CAPF 24, Application for Senior Member Professional Development Award. Documentation (certificates, diplomas, etc.) need not be attached if the member's online record shows completion of requirements. A member submitting an application for an award whose achievements do not appear on their online record must attach copies of supporting documents. NHQ/DP returns applications not supported by the member's record entries or documentation.

(emphasis added)

[Eclipse]

Who holds this up for "proof"? There's no requirement to disclose anything other than dates, according to the regs.

How would you know people actually went?  You have to substantiate everything.  Most wings keep records of the conferences they host internally,
but a lot of activities outside a wing count as well.

[jeders]

I know it's a "it depends" question, but just curious how long it has taken any of you from the time you submit your CAPF 24 until Lvl 3 finally shows up on e-services. I sent my Form 24 to my squadron CC on 7 Jan 2012, so it's only been about 3.5 weeks.

In my experience, about 3-4 months.

[a2capt]

My last couple posted within a week.

[MSG Mac]

Many conference fees are actually paid through National HQ back to the Wing or Region so National should have some record for those.  But have you checked with the Wing DPD to see if it's been received and sent on? I know in some wings the Group/CC's want a copy also (even though they're not required to sign off on PD awards).

[Thrashed]

If you sign up for conferences, why don't they keep track?  I signed up. I signed in. Still, no one knows I was there? I had to supply proof too. I was warned ahead of time, so I kept everything. It took months for my L3 to show up. I assume there is a certificate too.? It's been over a year and I still didn't get one.

[Pylon]

Well I guess what's the standard proof of attendance here?   Should I attach photographs of the member on the dance floor at the conference banquet to substantiate?  Because I can certainly register (and show a registration confirmation or payment receipt) to any wing or region conference I want.  Doesn't mean I showed up. 

Proof that I registered to attend a CLC and paid the fee doesn't cut it for other PD course credit.  I need a certificate of completion or PA which verifies that I actually came and successfully warmed a chair.

Realistically, the member's commander should vet the attendance claims to his or her satisfaction, if necessary (though I would hope that, generally speaking, the Sq/CC would know his or her members well enough to know if they've attended their wing's or region's conferences), and once the Sq/CC signs it further proof should not need to be attached.

[lordmonar]

I do.

Yes, I've had members be less than honest when submitting paperwork. If it isn't written down, it didn't happen.

So....just to be curious.....what do you accept as proof?

If you have had member who were less then honest.....did you 2b them? 

[EMT-83]

I do.

Yes, I've had members be less than honest when submitting paperwork. If it isn't written down, it didn't happen.

So....just to be curious.....what do you accept as proof?

If you have had member who were less then honest.....did you 2b them? 

I'll accept pretty much any reasonable proof: a certificate of attendance, a Personnel Authorization, or check against a conference roster that I do have. I have Wing records going back 7 years, so we can generally pull the file. They're not 100% accurate, so that's sometimes a problem.

I recently had a member attend a Region conference, where they didn't issue certificates. He knew that he would need proof, so he had a photo taken of himself with the Region commander, with the "Welcome to the 2011 NER Conference" PowerPoint slide in the background. It made my day!

As to those members being less than honest, I turn it back to the squadron CC. I'll say something to the effect that my records don't match the information on the Form 24, can you provide clarification? It can be touchy, because the CC has obviously signed the application without vetting it.

Honestly, I'm not "the jerk at Wing" that's purposely holding up paperwork. My Wing CC has issued specific instructions that everything be verified before I submit it for signature. I'll jump through hoops to get paperwork pushed through for promotion ceremonies and the like. I just ask that folks work with me to get it done.

[lordmonar]

Cool,

This is just one of my pet peeves.

I don't understand the requirment for two wing conferences.

a) There is no definition of what a wing or higher conference actually is.
b) There is not standard defining "attend"....I pay my money and spend the entire time outside the lobby smoking cigarettes and telling war stories...and then go to the banquet....have I attended?
c) If attending two wing conferences is so important for Level III, why is there no requirment for regional conferences for Level IV and National conferences for Level V?

It sounds too much like....."we put on a show and no one came.....so we will make them come!"

[a2capt]

CAWG Posts a PA, grab it and put in your 201 file.. they're there when you need it.
Email a copy to your email blackhole box. File it under '201 file' .. All the stuff.

[Ed Bos]

Just curious, did you enclosed proof of attendance at your two conferences? That one item is a major hold up on Level 3 applications.

Who holds this up for "proof"? There's no requirement to disclose anything other than dates, according to the regs.

Somebody please point out where it says otherwise, if I'm wrong. This isn't the first time I've heard this, and I'm concerned that some echelons of the ProDev program are adding requirements inconsistently.

CAPR 50-17 2-5e. Members submit applications for awards on CAPF 24, Application for Senior Member Professional Development Award. Documentation (certificates, diplomas, etc.) need not be attached if the member's online record shows completion of requirements. A member submitting an application for an award whose achievements do not appear on their online record must attach copies of supporting documents. NHQ/DP returns applications not supported by the member's record entries or documentation.

(emphasis added)

Attendance of a conference is not an achievement.

And yes, a participation letter (not a PA) would be the correct item to document attendance here, but there's no reason to not accept someone's say-so for this requirement.

That's why we have the Core Values. If you find someone has breached those, you have a more important problem than whether or not they stood in the lobby at the Kentucky Wing Conference and shot the breeze with anybody who happened to pass by.

How would you know people actually went?  You have to substantiate everything.  Most wings keep records of the conferences they host internally, but a lot of activities outside a wing count as well.

If anybody needs to know if someone went, a PL is proper documentation. But the idea that, "You have to substantiate everything," is utterly distasteful, and not an actual requirement. There are certainly things that require documentation, but we're hurting our organization by trying to be completely inscrutable.  Case in point, holding up promotions and professional development for a requirement that doesn't exist.

[Private Investigator]

I do.

Yes, I've had members be less than honest when submitting paperwork. If it isn't written down, it didn't happen.

Roger that.