I saw this SAR video in 1987

[Stonewall]

They showed this video to us at my first encampment in 1987.  I thought it was BA then and even more so now..

Civil Air Patrol - SAR Mission Coordinator
 (1972)

[Extremepredjudice]

Why is mission base wearing service dress? shouldn't they be in OD green?

[PA Guy]

Why is mission base wearing service dress? shouldn't they be in OD green?

It's a mooovie

[Flying Pig]

Thats neat.  Back when you couldnt hardly tell the difference between an AF Officer or a CAP Officer.  That video was done all around where I grew up.  Riverside, Chino, Idyllwild Mountains, etc.

[wuzafuzz]

Dig the old style CAP wings.  I always liked the CA Wing patch and miss wearing it.

[RADIOMAN015]

They showed this video to us at my first encampment in 1987.  I thought it was BA then and even more so now..

Civil Air Patrol - SAR Mission Coordinator
 (1972)

I don't see this as a bad video overall.  It has all the elements of a successful search in it and pretty much is how our missions from a procedures standpoint are still conducted.  Of course I doubt that many mission base personnel today also would be wearing blue AF class A uniforms :angel:.

Basically if you are a recreational/private pilots flying around without a new 406 mhz emergency beacon; aren't filing a flight plan or at least flight following; locally aren't telling anyone where you are flying locally; than you are setting yourself up for a "Crash And Pray" scenario, that's the private pilots own fault and not Civil Air Patrol's, which has to try to piece together whatever is available and find the aircraft.

What's also interesting is that very early morning alert telephone call to the volunteers land line telephone number.  Now we've gotten to all this text messaging/email alerting, BUT a lot more members are likely not even monitoring their cellphones/pda's/computers for that late night/very early morning text alert.  I know I've seen text alerts go out at around 0300/0400 hrs local that didn't really get responded to until after 0500/0530 hrs local.  Perhaps the old plain old VOICE telephone method might work best for the midnight to 0600 local alert times.

Also as far as SAR helicopters are concerned, it's highly unlikely AF assets would be utilized (albeit a few places where the assets are stationed), but now with state/county and even local helicopters, its' more likely those agencies would respond.  It looks to me even back in 1972 that CAP ground search & rescue teams were not looked at as a primary response BUT the air assets were.  Does anyone know back in 1972 how many aircraft CAP had and the number by wing
RM           



 

[Stonewall]

They showed this video to us at my first encampment in 1987.  I thought it was BA then and even more so now..

Civil Air Patrol - SAR Mission Coordinator
 (1972)

I don't see this as a bad video overall.

I love the video.  BA = Bad Arse, i.e. good.

[ol'fido]

This is the CAP I remember fondly. This is the CAP I wanted to join. And it's the every once in a while chance of experiencing this that keeps me in the organization. We tend to dismiss this stuff as quaint and out of date, but I think the mindset and some of the techniques are timeless and still applicable.

Mission base staff in those days was usually in blues where I was. Blues were also the usual meeting UOD. Fatigues were seldom worn to meetings and some seniors never wore them. The only thing missing from the video were seniors wearing nylon flight jackets with their blues. Did you all also notice the "everclean" ribbons.

I don't know how many aircraft the CA wing or any other wing had back then. Most of the aircraft used were member owned in those days.

I do think that the direct contact telephone alert was in some ways better than the email/text system my wing uses now. It's not unusual to to miss text or email for me. I check email once a day, maybe. I don't check texts until after work(No cell phones allowed). Plus, a direct and personal "Can you respond?" is a lot more likely to generate a response than a impersonal text or email.

[Stonewall]

This is the CAP I remember fondly. This is the CAP I wanted to join. And it's the every once in a while chance of experiencing this that keeps me in the organization. We tend to dismiss this stuff as quaint and out of date, but I think the mindset and some of the techniques are timeless and still applicable.

+1   :clap:

[wuzafuzz]

This is the CAP I remember fondly. This is the CAP I wanted to join. And it's the every once in a while chance of experiencing this that keeps me in the organization. We tend to dismiss this stuff as quaint and out of date, but I think the mindset and some of the techniques are timeless and still applicable.

+1   :clap:

+2 

[Major Lord]

You've got to love that line: " And Major........good luck" Foxtrot Alpha bubba!

Major Lord

[sardak]

Does anyone know back in 1972 how many aircraft CAP had and the number by wing?

From the 1973 Report to Congress, for calendar year 1972:
Corporate owned aircraft  800
Member owned aircraft  5,394
USAF authorized missions 348
Flying sorties 14,560
Hours flown  27,391
Search objectives located 119
Lives saved  20
Total membership 62,430
There is no breakdown by wing.

The search for the plane with US House Majority Leader Hale Boggs, Rep. Nick Begich, an aide and the pilot, the longest in CAP history up to that time, took place in Alaska during the year. CAP flew 500 sorties over 39 days, when the search was suspended. The plane and those on board have never been found. Though credited by many as the search that led to the federal law mandating ELTs, it wasn't. That law had been passed in 1970.

Mike

[RiverAux]

I couldn't help but notice the hodgepodge of uniforms --- somethings never change. 

I wonder if these were real actors or actual CAP members (the acting wasn't great). 

[denverpilot]

What's also interesting is that very early morning alert telephone call to the volunteers land line telephone number.  Now we've gotten to all this text messaging/email alerting, BUT a lot more members are likely not even monitoring their cellphones/pda's/computers for that late night/very early morning text alert.  I know I've seen text alerts go out at around 0300/0400 hrs local that didn't really get responded to until after 0500/0530 hrs local.  Perhaps the old plain old VOICE telephone method might work best for the midnight to 0600 local alert times.

My Squadron pays for a service that calls via voice and also sends text and e-mail alerts.  It handles ringing multiple phone numbers, etc. 

Alerting Officers can choose between a human-recorded message (which gets played to telephone, and e-mail and text messages get a link to the recording) or typing text into a web interface which will to text-to-speech for the phone calls, and the exact text forwarded to the text messages and e-mails.

http://www.sheldonfoundation.org/

It can alert a lot of people a lot faster than the Alert Officer can take inbound calls from them, from personal experience.  Having a working voice mail service inbound to the Alert Officer is critical for gathering personnel.

$0.50/member/month. Quite reasonable.

Technically they're saying they're still in Beta test.  Haven't really had any problems, though...

Not meant explicitly as a "sales" pitch for them, or anything like that.  Feel free to contact them if you're interested or have questions.

[Spaceman3750]

What's also interesting is that very early morning alert telephone call to the volunteers land line telephone number.  Now we've gotten to all this text messaging/email alerting, BUT a lot more members are likely not even monitoring their cellphones/pda's/computers for that late night/very early morning text alert.  I know I've seen text alerts go out at around 0300/0400 hrs local that didn't really get responded to until after 0500/0530 hrs local.  Perhaps the old plain old VOICE telephone method might work best for the midnight to 0600 local alert times.

My Squadron pays for a service that calls via voice and also sends text and e-mail alerts.  It handles ringing multiple phone numbers, etc. 

Alerting Officers can choose between a human-recorded message (which gets played to telephone, and e-mail and text messages get a link to the recording) or typing text into a web interface which will to text-to-speech for the phone calls, and the exact text forwarded to the text messages and e-mails.

http://www.sheldonfoundation.org/

It can alert a lot of people a lot faster than the Alert Officer can take inbound calls from them, from personal experience.  Having a working voice mail service inbound to the Alert Officer is critical for gathering personnel.

$0.50/member/month. Quite reasonable.

Technically they're saying they're still in Beta test.  Haven't really had any problems, though...

Not meant explicitly as a "sales" pitch for them, or anything like that.  Feel free to contact them if you're interested or have questions.

I use Call-Em-All.com. It's so inexpensive that I just buy the stupid credits myself - I think I bought $10 when I started testing it and haven't had to buy any more yet. The plan I'm set up on is a pay-per-use where I can have as many people as I want on the list and it charges me 1 credit per person for every 30 seconds of message. However, I do a lot of individual calling since my list is still relatively short.

[Flying Pig]

Mission base staff in those days was usually in blues where I was. Blues were also the usual meeting UOD. Fatigues were seldom worn to meetings and some seniors never wore them. The only thing missing from the video were seniors wearing nylon flight jackets with their blues. Did you all also notice the "everclean" ribbons.

I remember that as a cadet going to a few mission bases.  Pilots were in flight suits (or go forbid those silly blue coverall things) GT and flight line were in "fatigues" and base staff were in blues.  I did a search base over the weekend once as a cadet.  One day I was flight line so I was in fatigues and the next day I was assigned to help comm and check in at the mission base.  Uniform was blues without ribbons.

However I am fairly sure I did NOT see anyone in class A's!

[Major Lord]

Mission base staff in those days was usually in blues where I was. Blues were also the usual meeting UOD. Fatigues were seldom worn to meetings and some seniors never wore them. The only thing missing from the video were seniors wearing nylon flight jackets with their blues. Did you all also notice the "everclean" ribbons.

I remember that as a cadet going to a few mission bases.  Pilots were in flight suits (or go forbid those silly blue coverall things) GT and flight line were in "fatigues" and base staff were in blues.  I did a search base over the weekend once as a cadet.  One day I was flight line so I was in fatigues and the next day I was assigned to help comm and check in at the mission base.  Uniform was blues without ribbons.

However I am fairly sure I did NOT see anyone in class A's!

Maybe that is the problem! If our base staff just dressed up nicely and had a cool "War Room" like the film, we would have more saves....I suggest we have NOMEX Service dress and crushed-can hats for our pilots too.....how can you save anyone in a smurf suit? ( Oh yeah, and more of those cute S/M's in skirts at base would be nice too....where can we get them?)

Major Lord

[jimmydeanno]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see a difference between then and now, except for some advances in technology.

Hodge-podge uniforms
Same SAR techniques
Mission bases operating in about the same way
People calling each other Jim and Bob with the occasional "Major" and "Captain."

Although, I'm not sure I agree with the "can't tell the difference between CAP and the AF officers."  Dual nametags, CAP cutouts, plastic ribbons, huge wing patches, longer hair, huge sideburns...

The one thing I notice is that the focus appeared to be on finding the people, as opposed to jurisdictional bureaucracy, money-grabbing attempts, and who was going to be in the limelight.  Today's SAR tends to be a money grab by local sheriffs, etc. to bolster their budgets to buy new goodies and create jobs.  Organizations that aren't that are viewed as competition rather than help, and getting them to work together is difficult.

However, I see a lot of our relevance disappearing on a daily basis, as a lot of areas revert to full-time SAR personnel, the country becomes more urbanized, and policies and procedures change to require aircraft owners to have beacons, file accurate flight plans, etc.  Additionally, with GA being an every increasing "rich-man's sport" the number of aircraft owners and pilots in GA is decreasing, as are the number of GA airports.

So, today's CAP is about finding our relevance and creating a service we can provide that people actually need.  It's been 6 years since I've had to participate in an ELT search, and of the 30ish that I've been involved in, none were anything more than a plane sitting on a ramp, or some Navy Ship that set off their EPIRB.

It's not the same CAP, because the old CAP isn't needed anymore (save for a few wings), in reality.  Disaster services, missing person's assistance, aerial photography, fire patrols, border patrol, and CD seem to be where we are today.  From an aerial standpoint, those types of things will never put us on the front page of the New York Times, but they are a relevant misison.

[Spaceman3750]

Missing person (and flood photography in the spring) has been the flavor of the day in my wing, at least in the southern tiers, with ELTs peppered in all over. Missing person is where I'm focusing training-wise. We've had several missing person callouts lately, but they were canceled before CAP rolled any resources (often within the hour).

I'd like to get the folks at my squadron more involved in DR, but I need to have a sit-down with the local Red Cross chapter and figure out where we would best be utilized. When you start talking about things like shelter management and mass feeding, augmenting the ARC is something that the whole squadron can get involved in and not just the ground team.

[RiverAux]

The one thing I notice is that the focus appeared to be on finding the people, as opposed to jurisdictional bureaucracy, money-grabbing attempts, and who was going to be in the limelight.  Today's SAR tends to be a money grab by local sheriffs, etc. to bolster their budgets to buy new goodies and create jobs.  Organizations that aren't that are viewed as competition rather than help, and getting them to work together is difficult.

Came across an article using google news search this past weekend about a big flare up between Oregon Wing over missing airplane searches and the state at about the time this movie was produced.  So, I don't think a lot has changed. 

[Duke Dillio]

Nothing has changed and nothing will change without people being more proactive.  Oregon Wing currently has no ground teams.  The sheriff's require that personnel participating in "their" search and rescue missions gain a certification through the sheriff's association.  In the past, people in the wing tried to get the association to sign off on CAP training but the sheriffs denied each request.  Part of the reasoning is that the sheriffs require specific training in crime scene security as part of their training program and we, as CAP, cannot perform those types of searchs anyways so it is not included in our training packet.  This has been this way for at least 10-15 years.  Some of the sheriffs want our help and others have seen the old, fat, crusty CAP officer with the group of kids and want no part.  It's all about politics and money and we don't have enough of either.

[RiverAux]

Whats the big deal about a little extra training for that sort of stuff?  CAP obviously isn't going to be participating in the searches where foul play is quite likely to have been performed so that isn't an issue.  But for most lost person searches where CAP is likely to be involved having that sort of extra training just in case something bad had happened would be just fine.  I suspect their crime scene training isn't all that different than what we tell our ground teams to do if they find an airplane crash site. 

If that is the only thing keeping CAP out of the woods, its just ridiculous.

[Duke Dillio]

It's just a big political thing.  CAP was the only search and rescue agency in Oregon that did not participate in the search for Kyron and there are a few sheriffs that consider us to be "amateurs" or "civilians" with no knowledge or skill.  There are others who would love to have us help them but they had no idea we still existed or what we were capable of.  This is not just inherent to Oregon either.  Other wings have the same problem.

What needs to happen is someone needs to go to each county sheriff and introduce us and our capabilities.  A lot of this nonsense occurred in the distant past.  Right now, the sheriff is the one who gets a call when an ELT goes off and we only get called when they can't find it or if they want an airplane.

[Duke Dillio]

Back to topic, at least they didn't play the Civil Air Patrol song......  I still have nightmares about that dang thing......

[Eclipse]

We had the same picture hanging in our basement when I was a kid...



((*sniff*))

[lordmonar]

Why is mission base wearing service dress? shouldn't they be in OD green?

Because back in the day....you wore service dress unless you absolutely had to wear something else.  Mission base was/is and admin job and did not require fatigues.

[lordmonar]

I couldn't help but notice the hodgepodge of uniforms --- somethings never change. 

I wonder if these were real actors or actual CAP members (the acting wasn't great).

IIRC even the USAF was in a transition on flight unifors around that time.  Green, OD Gray, Blue and Orange flight suits were not that uncommon based on unit, or mission.

[Eclipse]

Mission base was/is and admin job and did not require fatigues.

Exactly.

[ol'fido]

I couldn't help but notice the hodgepodge of uniforms --- somethings never change. 

I wonder if these were real actors or actual CAP members (the acting wasn't great).

IIRC even the USAF was in a transition on flight unifors around that time.  Green, OD Gray, Blue and Orange flight suits were not that uncommon based on unit, or mission.

Plus the fact that most flight suits were surplus or acquired from USAF sources. They weren't nearly as readily available as they are today. That's why a lot of the pilots wore the smurf suit when it became available.

I recall reading somewhere that orange flight suits were a hallmark of the Air Defense Command in the 60's.

[spacecommand]

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=11127.0 

[Stonewall]

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=11127.0 

See, I told you I saw it at encampment in 1987.  I even said so back in August 2010.

Sorry man.  I think my deployment to Afghanistan erased my CAP Talk memory so I started all over again.

[spacecommand]

No problem, I don't think many people read the history forum much.  Anycase I wanted to show the other video on top "Always Vigilant" video.

[skipperdan]

I don't understand why so many of you are missing the gist of this video.  Don't get off track talking about uniforms.  Instead, you should be mature enough to appreciate the coordination between CAP and other organizations.  As the Emergency Services Training Officer, I used this video about two weeks ago at our weekly meeting and we had some good discussions.

[Stonewall]

Nothing to see here.  Was researching and hit quote....

[Blundell, Fred - Lt Colonel]

I enjoyed your find and distributed it to our Squadron membership as well as the Texas Wing Chief of Staff.
Good job!