THE CHIEF'S UNIFORM GUIDE

[lordmonar]

SIGH...

Guardrail, I really don't know, and don't care.  My only concern with the Guide was to provide information that appears no where else, so that members of CAP could improve the appearance of their uniforms.  If the Guide doesn't meet your expectations - publish your own.

Chief Chiafos, all I can say is that my only expectation is that it doesn't contradict the uniform manual.  That's all. 

With great respect, never said anything about the manual in that post about the AFI 36-2903 and body piercings, Chief.  I think the Gorilla Uniform Guide is great, just needs a little tweaking.     

Okay Guardrail, take the initiative and collaborate with Chief and/or others to update the guide. Sounds like a good project!
Keep up the good work Chief!

Maybe Guardrail should first join CAP in some capacity before he starts writing uniform wear guidelines.

YMMV.

[Chief Chiafos]

Sandman, thank you!

I really want to keep this positive.  Is my opinion better than yours? No.  Are regulations to be respected? Yes.

Here is the bottom line: I made the Guide available to you in the hopes you will use it to improve our uniforms.  The guide is a template, use it as you will, if you don't like something - change it! That is why it is in MS Word, and not adobe. The key word here is guide.  I want you to use the information however you think is best for you or your organization.

I know you have real trouble with the word custom.  But custom has always driven the uniform instructions.  In WWI GIs made their own division patches and sewed them on.  The Army tried to stomp out the practice but couldn't, so it made it part of the regulation.  Just as the rigger belt has been recently added.  Where do you think military traditions come from?  Some clown at headquarters with the power to write regulations (with the exception of General McPeak)?  They are generated from the bottom up.

In the 1970s the Chief of Naval Operations (Zumwalt) tried to get rid of the navy jumper, bell bottomed pants, and pill hats.  The enlisted corps went nuts, congress was going to hold hearings - Zumwalt got spanked and spanked good.  As one Chief remarked, "This is our uniform, not Zumwalt's."  Too bad the same could not be said for the Air Force when our uniform got "McPeaked".

[PhotogPilot]

Well, I'm not going to get into the arguement of what's regulation and isn't, I'll leave that discussion for those of you much more knowledgeable of CAPM 39-1 and the Air Force regs.

I am a "portly" senior, and choose to wear the blue trousers, white shirt, AF blue grade slides because I think it looks better on me, and I never liked the "non-uniform" appearance of the gray trousers. The Gorilla Guide gave me the information to make a 1000% improvement in the way my uniform looked and fit. I also wear the navy blue flight suit and blue BDU's because I will not wear an "Air Force Style" uniform until I can meet the regs, and even then I will probably not switch over.

One of my greatest discomforts is seeing someone wear either the CAP uniforms or Air Force style uniforms incorrectly, or even mixing them up. 

Thanks Chief, I appreciate the effort, keep up the good work.

[Guardrail]

Chief, I just wanted to say thank you for all the hard work you put into your uniform guide.  I apologize if I sounded disrespectful in my previous post; I was just trying to make the guide better, like msmjr2003, Capt Harris, and all the other folks who have responded to this topic with suggestions. 

By the way... I used your uniform guide as a cadet, and it helped me a lot (esp. with shining shoes).

[DNall]

As I said in the Guide - the AFI is not the first, last, or only word on uniforms.

I agree 100% - in fact, the AFI doesn't even apply!

Our uniform manual is CAPM 39-1.

The single biggest place where new members get themselves into trouble, especially those who are current or ex-military, is injecting their opinion about how things "should be" into conversations and guidance which imply a regulatory authority.  

Yeah except they have a lot more experience with how it "should be" than you do. I understand your concern & certainly anything can be taken too far, but a career NCO speaking to the best way to prepare & wear common uniform items that they've worn for 20 years... put the high horse back in the closet.

39-1 is the uniform manual. It's very poorly written & leaves out many many critical details to know how to wear the uniform correctly. When you come to such a case, the AFI is a good secondary source to give context to what 39-1 meant to say. When the AFI also falls short, it is typical to rely on customs in the culture (what the people around you do, more experienced people tell you to do, and guides like this).

It's good stuff chief. I've been meaning to get some stuff done on our website with a new member resource area & this will be there with some other good stuff. Just hadn't gotten around to it yet.

[mikeylikey]

Chief Chiafos, I have a perfect job for you and your new position!  Re-write 39-1 and bring it more in step with the AFI.  It is a piece of crap and has been since I joined over 15 years ago!  I don't want to go off on rant but, could we get some better pictures this time?  Maybe move away from photos and use illustrations as they do in the other services uniform regs.  It makes things more clear.  Just an idea!

[Chief Chiafos]

Mike, That may be a good idea and it will get serious consideration.  However, from my experiences here - I may need  body armour to get it done

[Major_Chuck]

Mike, That may be a good idea and it will get serious consideration.  However, from my experiences here - I may need  body armour to get it done

Maybe add an up armored HUMMV to that.  I know two of the principle players involved in the last rewrite of CAPM 39-1 and many of the folks pictured in the manual.  They got right testy when folks started picking apart their manual.

However, they should have proofed their pictures.   

[TDHenderson]

Mike, That may be a good idea and it will get serious consideration.  However, from my experiences here - I may need  body armour to get it done

Chief, there are some tank and APC hulks littering the ranges at Camp Dodge.  I'll put a recovery detail together next WTA and we'll fashion something up for you.  Do you prefer sleeves or a vest?

[CAPLAW]

Chief, Good stuff :)f I would like to use your guide in a basic cadet leadership school.  Can I send you an email?

[DNall]

Mike, That may be a good idea and it will get serious consideration.  However, from my experiences here - I may need  body armour to get it done

Not if you're fixing the document rather than changing all the uniform items. CAP has the distinct problem that we don't have that corrective culture around us & no quality standardized training at the front to get people up to speed. I'm of the opinion that the reg should go into extreme detail as if for martians that have nothing else to go on, and it should stay updated, I mean it's online, how hard is it.

[Nick]

I've been one of the big (and I mean BIG) proponents of change for CAPM 39-1 since about 1998 and would love nothing more than to see it follow every revision to AFI 36-2903 with appropriate changes for CAP-distinctive items. Unfortunately, I doubt to seeing that happen anytime soon, even though I've volunteered to write it.

Having considered all this, let us take into consideration for a moment that we are talking about a volunteer organization that isn't 100% concerned about following uniform regulations to the letter.  I know -- I'm one of them. I've been wearing a rigger's belt in BDUs since about... oh... 2001.  I do suspect that most CAP members take care of the parts of their uniform that are visible to anyone else and couldn't give a crap about the parts that are not.  I'm just throwing numbers out here, but I would bet perhaps 30% of the members wear standard AAFES blue elastic/web belts with black tips.  I also bet maybe 40% wear black socks with their boots.  But really, when it all comes down to it... who cares?  It's what's on the outside that counts (unless you want to cash in the integrity card) when you question a member about the uniform they're wearing.  Is not wearing a blue belt or a pair of black socks going to intervene an insurance payout from CAP?  God I hope not.

It's a question of practicality vs. uniformity (and I can't believe I'm admitting this as a member of the uniformed services)... but, in our defense, we're paid to wear our uniform properly.  CAP members are expected to follow these standards with no compensation in return.  So really, it does come down to practicality, doesn't it?

[Monty]

You know, as *taboo* as it probably is, I think McLarty hits the head of the nail with his hammer.

Now hear (er, "read") me out....

While there is some statistically relevant information that follows along the 'ole trite statement of "if I can't trust you to wear your uniform to the letter, then how can I trust you to maintain a multi-million dollar aircraft?" most of the educated sorts - if you put any credence into their experience and mastery of their years of study....  Well, most in the educated world(s) of academia agree that such a form of logic is a stretch at best.

Not the point.  My point is....there really are some merits to presenting a professional image in CAP but, there has to be "balance in the Force."  McLarty mentions the sock thing...and he's more right (in application) than most would like to admit.

Methinks that planes don't fall out of the sky because his belt is some blue rigger's dealy-o....and UDF missions don't fail because he wears pink socks (whoops, sorry guy...didn't mean to let that one slip.)   

The whole "uber-attention to detail" has a historical significance to "The Greatest Generation" up through, and including, all of us.  If tradition, however, is the real yardstick by which we measure our commitment to our clothes, then folks would be in for a VERY sore lesson from an American, historical perspective....  One word: Custer.  Don't need to say much more than that.

Painting rocks and sweeping dirt pits, as well as measuring insignia to microns of inches, came about for a reason....and it wasn't because one guy wore his stripes on his arm and another wore them on his leg...

Simple mistakes should be fixed (i.e., nametapes on wrong pockets, missing stuff, wrong stuff) but some of the most anal mistakes (i.e., an insignia that is .00136" inch off of center) aren't worth the trouble a VOLUNTEER would have to invest in making the tiny correction.

The Air Force doesn't care about the CAP feller/gal that is .00136" inch off.  Of course, I can't speak for the nearly 3/4 of a million airmen, but I can speak for those I know who've told me such things (and you meet hundreds of some WONDERFUL friends and acquaintances through 8 years of service.)

Okay, I reckon that I just opened myself up to flaming attacks...

[shorning]

Okay, I reckon that I just opened myself up to flaming attacks...

Only if you're wearing those pink socks...

[Monty]

Okay, I reckon that I just opened myself up to flaming attacks...

Only if you're wearing those pink socks...

Oh, thtop it with your playing (said while doing my best Freddie Mercury lisp that I can type.) 

[Smokey]

A few comments...

Chief...Thanks for your efforts with all you have done.  I'm suprised you posted this topic after the grief you were given over the NCO corps.   You are a braver man than I Gunga Din. You've at least made an effort to help CAP and it's members, unlike some who have bagged on you on this blog and done nothing to help the members or organization.    Talk is cheap.

To those that have bagged on the Chief......geez guys, give him a break.  Instead of bagging, how about doing something useful.  Again, talk is cheap.

msmjr 2003......flaming and pink socks  !!!   Are you from San Francisco?   Good 'Ol cereal land......flakes , fruits and nuts.

[Monty]

A few comments...

Chief...Thanks for your efforts with all you have done.  I'm suprised you posted this topic after the grief you were given over the NCO corps.   You are a braver man than I Gunga Din. You've at least made an effort to help CAP and it's members, unlike some who have bagged on you on this blog and done nothing to help the members or organization.    Talk is cheap.

To those that have bagged on the Chief......geez guys, give him a break.  Instead of bagging, how about doing something useful.  Again, talk is cheap.

msmjr 2003......flaming and pink socks  !!!   Are you from San Francisco?   Good 'Ol cereal land......flakes , fruits and nuts.

Pink socks was a light-hearted reference, friend. 

You're kidding, right?  I mean...well....I think you're kidding.  Folks like shorning roll their eyes (in all good fun, I hope) because they know where I'm from....and how I won't "let it go."

You won't have to dig real deep to find out my personal etiology...  (And yes, I'm temporarily living 45 mins from the city of fruits and nuts.....just waiting for my ticket to get punched so I can leave....)

As for the "bagging," I wasn't "bagging" on anybody; merely offering a general alternative thought in the general sense.  I'm actually pretty good about either including quotes or names if I'm to "bag" somebody.

I promise you; I'm one of the most jovial pards around.  Y'all take CAP way too seriously sometimes so, I try to bring in the balanced perspective.  Yin and yang. 

[Smokey]

Monty,

On the bagging...I wasn't referring to you.....it was a general reference to those who are quick to jump on the Chief everytime he makes a post.

But the pink socks comment....was....directed at you

I say, that's a joke son.....that's a joke.   I'd say it was poking fun, but that would probably be to politically incorrect to the flamers wearing pink socks.

[Monty]

Monty,

On the bagging...I wasn't referring to you.....it was a general reference to those who are quick to jump on the Chief everytime he makes a post.

But the pink socks comment....was....directed at you

I say, that's a joke son.....that's a joke.   I'd say it was poking fun, but that would probably be to politically incorrect to the flamers wearing pink socks.

Groovy.  We're right as rain!

[Chappie]

But the pink socks comment....was....directed at you

I say, that's a joke son.....that's a joke.   I'd say it was poking fun, but that would probably be to politically incorrect to the flamers wearing pink socks.

Since I am from CAWG...I just did a sock check  ....whew...not pink but black