THE CHIEF'S UNIFORM GUIDE

Started by Chief Chiafos, January 16, 2007, 05:28:12 AM

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NEBoom

Quote from: lordmonar on January 27, 2007, 06:58:46 AM
Quote from: flyguy06 on January 26, 2007, 04:46:07 AM
Trust me, I dont think they yell at people inthe USAF anyway. ;D

Sure...thing....there.....

My TI would get us into the day room every couple of days and say..."We don't cuss at you!"....and we would all say "NO, Sir!"....and then he would say "F...ing A we don't.....We don't call you little scum bags names?"  "NO Sir"...."We don't throw your mail at you?"  "NO Sir!"  "Right...Harris" mail sails 30 feet in a perfect arch from years of training and pings me right in the head!

Yeah, that's the way it was in my day too.  The first night we were sitting in the dayroom (we had to sit and get up again three times before we seated ourselves quickly enough for him, but I digress...) our TI was going through the book of dorm rules.  He flipped over a page and said, "Smoking is not allowed in the dorms."  Then he took a big long drag on his cigarette, blew the smoke out, and said, "for you guys."

Oh yeah, and we got called every name in the book, and cussed at ("What the f--- are you looking at?" was literally the first thing I ever heard a TI say), and the mail was all delivered "on the wing."  And almost everything was said at extremely loud volume.
Lt Col Dan Kirwan, CAP
Nebraska Wing

NEBoom

Quote from: Chief Chiafos on January 25, 2007, 06:21:50 PM
Knight,

You are right about reprimands - however, uniform wear is the exception.  It is important that everyone sees you will not hesitate to correct infractions - it sends a message.  This does not mean that someone is dressed down, belittled, or embarrassed.  HOW you do it is as important as doing it.  Positive, non-personal comments during an open ranks inspection is the time and place: Cadet Jones your BDUs are badly wrinkled, what happened to them?  Cadet Smith, your boots have dried mud on them, lets get them cleaned up and polished.  Praise is also given: Cadet Ford, those low quarters are outstanding!

Publicly singling out an individual, outside of an open ranks inspection, for a uniform violation is bad leadership.  Some things, such as poor personal hygiene, are best addressed privately.  The application of common sense, and treating others as you would expect to be treated under the same circumstances is always appropriate.

Any time I was in charge, I set the ground rules with the cadets right from the start.  I explained to them that I would be pointing out mistakes on their uniforms during formation/inspection and that it was done not to put them down, but rather to illustrate some of the common mistakes people make on their uniforms when first starting out.  Better to do that than have to correct the same common mistake over and over again with each individual.  It also got them into the habit of looking at each other's uniforms, and seeing that improving as a group was as important as improving as individuals.

I made it clear that being pointed out as a "bad example" was not cause to feel belittled or picked on, and being pointed out as a "good example" was not grounds for getting a big head.  It worked pretty well to do this.  The hardest part is making sure that new members who join later on know about and understand the ground rules.
Lt Col Dan Kirwan, CAP
Nebraska Wing

BlackKnight

#102
Since there is a wide difference of opinions regarding the appropriateness of dressing down cadets for uniform violations in public,  I'll reinforce my original point.  In my squadron we follow Leadership 2000 second edition pretty much to the letter.  This is THE leadership text for the CAP cadet program, and it contains the principles that I (as a cadet programs officer) am responsible for implementing. There are questions on the cadet leadership tests that specifically address how and when discipline is to be applied in the cadet program.  Most cadets learn best by 'doing'.  If our actions and instructions are inconsistent with the leadership guide, most cadets will invariably miss those test questions.  This is a recurring problem in some squadrons that I interface with.  The seniors have not educated themselves on the current program. They're insist on operating in the "WIWAC" or "when I was in the real military" mode.

The following is a direct quote from Leadership 2000 2nd ed. volume 1, page 23 (emphasis mine):

QuoteCorrecting people is just as important as teaching them to maintain military courtesy. On the spot correction is most effective, but should be done in private if possible. Your leaders are responsible for supervising and correcting you, one of their followers. When they correct you, they should explain the meaning and importance of their corrective action. Many violations of military courtesy are unintentional and result from not being taught properly. The purpose of correction is to teach, not punish.

There are many similar statements throughout both volumes. As I wrote earlier, it's clearly a foundational theme of the program.

Now it is apparently the option of everyone in CAP to redefine and morph the cadet program into whatever they wish it to be.   And apparently NHQ has no real problem with that (as long as no one goes to jail).  But I do ask that you at least have the courtesy to refrain from actively undermining those of us who are implementing the program as written because we've discovered it actually works!   ;)
Phil Boylan, Maj, CAP
DCS, Rome Composite Sqdn - GA043
http://www.romecap.org/

capchiro

As usual, Phil, I have to agree with you and endorse your opinion completely.  Following the program regulations is not a discretionary option, it is our law.  If you think the program is wrong, get out of it.  How many good cadets do we lose by some hot shot throwing around his/her weight and embarrassing them?  I am always amazed at how few members seem to lack any familiarity with the cadet hazing reg's.  I truthfully think we need to enforce our hazing reg's and perhaps weed out some of the military want-to-be's that are not in alignment with the program.  JMHO.       
Lt. Col. Harry E. Siegrist III, CAP
Commander
Sweetwater Comp. Sqdn.
GA154

Hawk200

Quote from: BlackKnight on January 28, 2007, 05:54:37 PM
Since there is a wide difference of opinions regarding the appropriateness of dressing down cadets for uniform violations in public,  I'll reinforce my original point.  In my squadron we follow Leadership 2000 second edition pretty much to the letter.  This is THE leadership text for the CAP cadet program, and it contains the principles that I (as a cadet programs officer) am responsible for implementing. There are questions on the cadet leadership tests that specifically address how and when discipline is to be applied in the cadet program.  Most cadets learn best by 'doing'.  If our actions and instructions are inconsistent with the leadership guide, most cadets will invariably miss those test questions.  This is a recurring problem in some squadrons that I interface with.  The seniors have not educated themselves on the current program. They're insist on operating in the "WIWAC" or "when I was in the real military" mode.

The following is a direct quote from Leadership 2000 2nd ed. volume 1, page 23 (emphasis mine):

QuoteCorrecting people is just as important as teaching them to maintain military courtesy. On the spot correction is most effective, but should be done in private if possible. Your leaders are responsible for supervising and correcting you, one of their followers. When they correct you, they should explain the meaning and importance of their corrective action. Many violations of military courtesy are unintentional and result from not being taught properly. The purpose of correction is to teach, not punish.

There are many similar statements throughout both volumes. As a wrote earlier, it's clearly a foundational theme of the program.

Now it is apparently the option of everyone in CAP to redefine and morph the cadet program into whatever they wish it to be.   And apparently NHQ has no real problem with that (as long as no one goes to jail).  But I do ask that you at least have the courtesy to refrain from actively undermining those of us who are implementing the program as written because we've discovered it actually works!   ;)

I think I would need to see the full context of the statement you quoted before I started adopting a practice of telling cadets to see me after the formation. It may not be possible or appropriate to do such a thing.

And to be honest, if you are correcting cadets in private, then you're probably setting up for a bit of trouble on your part. I know you may hate the comparision, but the new military version is "Praise in public, counsel in semi-private." You can see the obvious advantages of having witnesses at all times. And yes, I know, it's that pesky "real military" that we just happen to be modeled after, but it's a very valid and practical concept. (Which can be considered somewhat unusual considering the source.  ;D )