/rant

Started by Extremepredjudice, August 23, 2011, 03:10:46 AM

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Extremepredjudice

First some back story:
My squadron had 2 flights, alpha flight is the experienced cadets, bravo is the newbies...
I am a member of alpha.
Our flight has a c/TSgt as flight sgt, and a A1c as assistant flight sgt.
No element leaders/flight commander.

Our flight is the experienced flight, so we joke and mess around during training... Most or all of us know when and where to joke around... If we can complete the drill, who cares if we crack a joke or two? There is only CAP there, no reason to be professional, at that moment. Our sgt makes sure we keep it reasonable. Nothing over the top, we do stuff like, when we pass a stop sign, we just ran that stop sign! The cops are after us! I am the quiet, do what you are told, don't complain.

I passed my wright bros. A while ago, so I filled out the paperwork for drill exam, and review board.

The Cadet commander tells me I can't take it, since I still have 31 days. I grumped, breifly, cause I know he takes his review boards earlier than that.  I let it slide, who cares?

Also, I needed to take the drill exam. I asked a few of the sergeants, anything I need to know?(like an obscure drill command) The first one (TSgt) is like "there is a drill exam????"
Second one(SSgt) "I didn't take one"
So between the 3 of us we remember the cover sheet of the wright bros. Test... Says something like "an experienced cadet or SM will take you and drill you"
Sounds like a 1 on 1...right?

So at that meeting, we did drills, our flight sgt didn't show... We march over to our flight's area, without SM supervision(we never have a sm watching alpha). So our assistance flight sgt (this is her second time commanding...) is assisted by bravo flight's assistant flight sgt.  Before they could drill us, our cadet commander strolls up, and makes me fallout, puts me infront of the flight, and says this is your drill exam... I am trying to maintain my cool, this is my first time commanding an entire flight, plus I thought it was a 1 on 1 exam.. Before that, I only commanded a couple guys, and we where playing knockout, for fun.

So, I take a deep breath, and commanded the flight... I was horrid... I called a few commands on the wrong foot, waited to long between the prep, and execution, etc.

So he fails me, and complains I was screaming at the flight... Tbh I was surprised, and confused... I was trying to be loud enough for everyone to hear me, I didn't think I was screaming... I was quieter than he was.

So I am a bit disappointed, but brush it off... The commander then proceeds with placing a few other people in charge, one by one... Some did good, some did bad..

Eventually, the cadet commander takes over again, and chews us out for making our usually rounds of jokes, and talking at attention..

He then proceeds to force us to do 4 count pushups. Claims it is for our pt scores..  (totalled 30, I did roughly 50)

Everyone started saying that was hazing, and for what ever reason, the assistant flight sgt did arm circles? Go figure...

Now I don't mind doing the pushups... I just don't want to do them in our bdus/boots. Then he proceeds to force us to run around a bit... Now, I don't mind running. I enjoy pt. I do not want to run in my freshly cleaned bdus, or my shined shows...

/endrant

Thoughts?
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Hanlon's Razor
Occam's Razor
"Flight make chant; I good leader"

Майор Хаткевич

First thought: Troll?
Second thought: Reminds me of my first squadron.
Third thought: Where are the SMs.
Fourth thought: Why are you bringing this here
Fifth thought: Take this up the chain
Sixth thought: What grade is the C/CC?

Spaceman3750

Regardless of whatever anyone did to wrong you or anyone else, this is the wrong place to address it.

Extremepredjudice

I know, I wasn't going to adress this at a higher level, unless this is pulled again.

I was looking for sage advise
Who is the troll?
He is a captain.
I love the moderators here. <3

Hanlon's Razor
Occam's Razor
"Flight make chant; I good leader"

Spaceman3750

Quote from: Extremepredjudice on August 23, 2011, 03:18:51 AM
unless this is pulled again.

??? Who says anything was "pulled" at all? You might be right, you might be wrong, all I know is that I only have one side of the story and almost everything you have listed can be perfectly acceptable when taken in a different perspective or context (though the 4 count pushups are odd).

a2capt

Quote from: Extremepredjudice on August 23, 2011, 03:10:46 AMThoughts?
I don't even know where to start. There's so much wrong in that story..

"No reason to be professional" is a good place to start. Just imagine if you had taken the rest of that meeting time a little more serious. You might have passed that Wright Brothers drill test. You might have set the standard.

When our color guard team went to the various competitions, they were there to do a job. They knew what they had to do. They went to breakfast in step. Then back to quarters in step, to report to each event in step. In formation. In the mood.

Why? Because they had a job to do.

At your meeting, you have a job to do. Your flight staff, your command staff, they have a job to do. If you want to joke around, it will show, and it did.

There's plenty of reason to be professional.

The senior members never watch alpha flight.. well, maybe alpha flight needs to be bravo flight for a while, and bravo can be charlie, because it doesn't sound like the unit is ready for an Alpha Flight.

Probably not the response you were looking for, but, there it is.

If your choice of screen name has any indicator, as well.. it's beginning to come into focus.

titanII

This wasn't as bad as I'd thought it would be from the title.

Here are my thoughts:

[My Opinion]
Alpha Flight probably shouldn't have gained the habit of making comments, etc. while in formation. I also think that Alpha Flight should have known better than to talk at attention while the Cadet Commander was leading the flight (or even within earshot)

Also, for what it's worth, by "screaming" the Cadet Commander may have meant that you were using your diaphragm improperly (i.e. not enough).

And lastly, the Cadet Commander should not (IMO) have made you do push-ups or run, even if you didn't mind. They shouldn't even do that at Encampment (outside of PT). A more effective and appropriate solution would have been to bring Alpha inside for a stern talking-to about what the position of attention and military bearing are.
[/My Opinion]
No longer active on CAP talk

DakRadz

Quiet screaming is still different from proper diaphragm usage.

Trust me, I've had to correct the exact same issue.

EDIT: titanII, never read my mind again- that's an order! ;D

Майор Хаткевич

Is anyone missing the fact that they clearly don't test for the WBA correctly?

Extremepredjudice

Quote from: a2capt on August 23, 2011, 03:24:01 AM
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on August 23, 2011, 03:10:46 AMThoughts?
I don't even know where to start. There's so much wrong in that story..

"No reason to be professional" is a good place to start. Just imagine if you had taken the rest of that meeting time a little more serious. You might have passed that Wright Brothers drill test. You might have set the standard.

When our color guard team went to the various competitions, they were there to do a job. They knew what they had to do. They went to breakfast in step. Then back to quarters in step, to report to each event in step. In formation. In the mood.

Why? Because they had a job to do.

At your meeting, you have a job to do. Your flight staff, your command staff, they have a job to do. If you want to joke around, it will show, and it did.

There's plenty of reason to be professional.

The senior members never watch alpha flight.. well, maybe alpha flight needs to be bravo flight for a while, and bravo can be charlie, because it doesn't sound like the unit is ready for an Alpha Flight.

Probably not the response you were looking for, but, there it is.

If your choice of screen name has any indicator, as well.. it's beginning to come into focus.
we do stay in step, we do everything perfect, or close to.
I stated I keep my head down. I don't make the jokes, because I am horrid at jokes.

I do act professional, believe it or not. I have passed every test I have taken. In and out side of CAP.

I take CAP seriously, it does seem like I am trying to make excuses or something, I'm not.
If I act inappropiate, I own up.

On a sorta unrelated note, but a character reference. If I acted unprofessionally, didn't take things seriously, or disrespected authority, I wouldn't be an assistant clerk of courts, at 16. It isn't a job, it is a volunteer position... I get 500 hours community service from that, alone.

The advice I seem to be getting is gt*o, troll. Not what I expected, but maybe you have a point.

I didn't think I was misusing my diapharm... I will look into that.
I love the moderators here. <3

Hanlon's Razor
Occam's Razor
"Flight make chant; I good leader"

DakRadz

Quote from: usafaux2004 on August 23, 2011, 03:39:39 AM
Is anyone missing the fact that they clearly don't test for the WBA correctly?
i.e. Drill test means they test YOU, not "show us what you can do"?

Yeah, thought did cross my mind.

a2capt

Quote from: usafaux2004 on August 23, 2011, 03:39:39 AMIs anyone missing the fact that they clearly don't test for the WBA correctly?
As I said, I didn't even get that far. The whole thing sounds like Romper Room to me.

Okay, it may not be you, as you are saying, however it still sounds way more dysfunctional that not.. and that may work in it's own microcosm. When you go to other units, it's going to show.

I realize, it's only one mans text description. Viewing from up close would be the reasonable thing to do, to make a better opinion.

Read your post from an outsiders perspective, if possible. With thoughts on 52-16 and such in mind.

lordmonar

Quote from: usafaux2004 on August 23, 2011, 03:39:39 AM
Is anyone missing the fact that they clearly don't test for the WBA correctly?

In and amonst all the other things they don't do correctly?

CPP violations.
Testing Violations.
Lack of SM supervision
Lack of Cadet supervision.

Our flight is experinced.....C/TSgt in charge with a C/A1c as back up?  I hate to see the Bravo Flight!

Okay........for the OP.

First.....please inform your Depurty Command for Cadets for Squadron Commander that your C/CC violated a hard line item in the CPP.
Second....see your CDC and find out about the tests.
Third....you should not ever be suprised by the drill command on the test......it is what you should be practicing everyday you have drill.
Fourth.....Really CT is not the place to be bringing this stuff up.  You have a chain of command use it.  If you just want to complain.....well...okay but really if you don't want help....don't waste our time.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Extremepredjudice

Quote from: lordmonar on August 23, 2011, 04:12:49 AM
Quote from: usafaux2004 on August 23, 2011, 03:39:39 AM
Is anyone missing the fact that they clearly don't test for the WBA correctly?


Our flight is experinced.....C/TSgt in charge with a C/A1c as back up?  I hate to see the Bravo flight!
bravo has 2 TSgts...
We have a SSgt in alpha that doesn't do anything


Thanks all
I love the moderators here. <3

Hanlon's Razor
Occam's Razor
"Flight make chant; I good leader"

Short Field

Have your parents call the Wing Commander and explain what happened.  If that doesn't create a response, contact the Region Commander.  This squadron is in bad shape and needs some serious HHQ oversight and some adult leadership.  It is NOT a CAP squadron anymore but a place for kids to hang out.
SAR/DR MP, ARCHOP, AOBD, GTM1, GBD, LSC, FASC, LO, PIO, MSO(T), & IC2
Wilson #2640

BuckeyeDEJ

There's so many breaches of the core values in this, right down to posting on this forum instead of working through the complaints system, that I don't think any of us could start in the same place. Stunning, isn't it?

I just hope your unit isn't in my wing.


CAP since 1984: Lt Col; former C/Lt Col; MO, MRO, MS, IO; former sq CC/CD/PA; group, wing, region PA, natl cmte mbr, nat'l staff member.
REAL LIFE: Working journalist in SPG, DTW (News), SRQ, PIT (Trib), 2D1, WVI, W22; editor, desk chief, designer, photog, columnist, reporter, graphics guy, visual editor, but not all at once. Now a communications manager for an international multisport venue.

The CyBorg is destroyed

#16
Alright, for what my $.02 and almost 18 years in CAP are worth, as a deputy commander, testing officer and general layabout...

This sounds like an overall lack of organisation and breakdown in command from the getgo...both never should have happened but both are fixable.

First of all, I would want to know why there is an SSgt in either flight who "doesn't do anything."  SSgt is an NCO rank.  NCO's provide leadership, both in the CAP and in the Armed Forces.  The Air Force used to have two grades in E-4, Senior Airman (SrA) and Sergeant (usually called "buck").  Both were E-4's but Sgt was an NCO and SrA was not, just as in the Army a Corporal and a Specialist are both E-4's, but a Corporal outranks a Specialist and the Corporal is an NCO.  With NCO status comes a lot of expectations, leadership being first among them.  An AF SrA has to attend Airman Leadership School before being considered for SSgt.

Your "do-nothing" SSgt needs to start doing something.

Not talking in formation and/or at the position of attention is something that is fundamental to military forming practice.

Senior Officers not watching Alpha Flight?  Red flag.  Our Alpha Flight is the more experienced flight, but there is almost always an officer detailed to observe them - even if said observation is not really noticeable or close-up.  Often if I'm not busy at the moment  ;D ;D ;D I will do so.

And...this should go without saying, but the minute you put that uniform on you have a reason, an obligation and a duty to be professional, irrespective of rank or cadet/senior status.

Also...as others have correctly pointed out, this is not the place to make such problems known.  You do not know who is reading this.  There may well be someone from your squadron, group or wing who will recognise the situation and may take a corrective action...usually in an unfavourable light.  The CoC exists for a reason.  Use it.
Exiled from GLR-MI-011

Extremepredjudice

#17
My apoligies, I wasn't clear:The sergeant wants to, but is told "there aren't any positions open" which is untrue.

Yes, I do realise this isn't the place to post this.  :-[ :'(

Edit: If My parents called wing, isn't that skipping the CoC?
My impression was you start at the bottom, abd if nothing comes of it you move to the next person, even if it is the person you have a problem with.

Besides, I don't want to become a 'whiner' which, regardless if I am correct or not, I will most likely be labeled as.

I love the moderators here. <3

Hanlon's Razor
Occam's Razor
"Flight make chant; I good leader"

BillB

One thing I note, many of the responses are from senior members, with the senior member viewpoint. Look at the problem in this Squadron from the cadet viewpoint. The problems that the cadet mentions are all from the cadet view of the Squadron. To many cadets the Squadron CC is in a position almost as a god and unapprochable. For most cadets the CoC ends with the Cadet Commander, maybe DCP. So a cadet may look to outside avenues to vent their frustrations. Maybe CT is the wrong avenue, but from the posts, the cadet got the answers he was looking for.
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104

Eclipse

Quote from: Extremepredjudice on August 23, 2011, 03:10:46 AMOur flight is the experienced flight, so we joke and mess around during training... Most or all of us know when and where to joke around...

I stopped reading right there.  You're done.

For the record, if you believe the PT was done as a punitive measure, you should address it with your commander.

"That Others May Zoom"