Boonie Cover

[Major Carrales]

[fyrfitrmedic]

 Tilley hats are great for sailing IMHO, but as a uniform item? Perhaps it's just me, but I'm not keen on a navy-blue Tilley for any purpose.

  Tilleys are at their best when they're broken in, IMHO.

[floridacyclist]

I've worn my wife's navy blue sailing hat (I don't know the brand, but looking at the drawing above, it was either a Tilley or one like it) with my BBDUs when I was so far out in the Everglades that I didn't care what anyone thought it looked like....good hat for the purpose, but it definitely has that "not quite right" look to it.

I got lucky and picked it up at a hurricane-damaged West marine for $5.00.

[DNall]

Hey Gene, hadn't crossed thread with ya in a while, how you doin out that way?

[floridacyclist]

Simply awesome I took my time finding my way over from Civilairportal...it just didn't seem the same here.

[davedove]

Observations: I don't really see a need for anyone outside of the South or South West to wear one.  It has utility in the deserts of New Mexico or Nevada (where the sun might actually cause sun stroke, skin cancers and the like).  In that case, a pith helmet or campaign hat might serve the same purpose.

Sun stroke and such can happen anywhere in the US.  If the purpose of the boonie is the shade from the wide brim, it's useful anywhere.

Now, other types of wide brimmed hat could serve the same function.

[Dragoon]

On the subject of "Boonie Hats are a safety item"

Do we have any real data, from any source, that folks in normal BDU caps (with sunscreen) are at a significantly higher risk for heat related injuries than folks in boonie caps?

For example, how many heat related injuries were reported to NHQ that could be attributed to the lack of boonie-shade?

Barring any kind of support like that, it's really not about safety - it's about comfort.  Not as compelling an argument.

[floridacyclist]

It's not about the heat, it's about the sun. The consequences of not shading oneself properly from the sun do not show up until years later, so any kind of data will be almost impossible to directly correlate to whatever type of hat was worn in younger years. We do know that skin cancer is a major health risk and one of the most common types of cancer found. We also know that the vast majority of damage is caused at an early age and the damage isn't apparent until the later years.

As for facts etc, do a search for sun skin safety on google or the like...you'll find plenty of information as well as various ways to protect oneself including wide-brimmed hats.  Sunblock is only part of the solution and not always practical in the field as it blocks your pores and is sweated off almost as fast as you can put it on.

People from up North wonder why us Floridians find snow so amazing that we come up on vacation hoping to see it...down here, we wonder at the touron (tourist/moron) fools lying out bathing in the very same sun that we're trying to avoid too much of.

Note: You seldom see a native cracker lying out....most of the bronzed beachbum residents you meet are from somewhere else as is most of the rest of the state.

[Dragoon]

Okay, so the "safety" factor we're talking about is skin cancer, not heatstroke?

If so, shouldn't we authorize the boonie for all cadets to wear with service dress during formations outdoors?

Does USAF mandate boonies for wear on the flightlines worldwide?  I don't know any place sunnier than the flightline.   And if they don't...

And truthfully (while I'm being kind of smarmy) - don't our GTs focus on searching areas plane's can't, meaning those with overhead cover (i.e. shade?).  After all, it doesn't take long to search an open field....

Methinks the whole thing is a tempest in a teapot.

[floridacyclist]

What can I say? Folks learn over time...it wasn't too many years ago that kids rode around without seatbelts or on the rear package shelf of their dad's Oldsmobile on roadtrips. Are you saying we should ignore new knowledge about safety just because we've always done things differently?

Maybe we just think about this more in the Southern part of the hemisphere since we have more direct exposure to the sun's rays being at a more Southerly latititude....I know that our Medical/Safety Officer (a Pediatrician) is up in arms over it.

Most dress formations don't last as long as a GT or flightline mission; personally I wouldn't have any problem with them wearing more sun protection either, but nobody has asked me.

We don't need GTs so much for search as for rescue/recovery in which case there may or may not be a lot of tree cover, plus there is no telling what they might have to go through on the way to the scene. If we allow wide-brimmed hats for the times when there isn't shade, do we word the reg so as to only allow it when there is XX% of the natural sunlight reaching the ground? Do GT members carry two hats, one ofr shade and one for sun?

What do you use for protection when working FLM? BDU caps don't come with tiedowns for flightline use like a boonie cap does.

Rolled-down sleeves help some too, but you do have to balance that protection against the more immediate risk of heat injury. Incidentally, the military operates almost full-time with covered arms, primarily for other reasons such as camouflage and I would think some protection from scrapes and cuts.

Some quotes to think about:

"Children are most at risk for overexposure to UV radiation. With one in five Americans developing skin cancer, childhood education about sun protection is a vital step toward reducing risk and improving public health. Many studies have concluded that sun exposure, especially sunburn, during childhood appears to increase the risk of melanoma, the most serious form of skin cancer. Just one or two blistering sunburns in childhood can double a person's risk of developing melanoma later in life.

Children are of particular concern because they spend a lot of time outdoors. Perhaps most importantly, skin cancer and other UV-related adverse health effects are largely preventable if sun protection practices are followed early and consistently. Educating school staff and students about sun safety can prevent many health problems related to overexposure to the sun. "

"According to the American Cancer Society (1999), skin cancer is the most common of all cancers. The incidence of skin cancer is greater than the incidence of breast, lung, prostate, colorectal, and kidney cancers combined. In the United States, about 1.3 million new cases of skin cancer are diagnosed each year. "

"Melanoma cases in the United States have almost doubled in the past two decades. Receiving one or two blistering sunburns before the age of 18 at least doubles an individual's risk for developing melanoma."

"Melanoma is the most aggressive of the skin cancers. If not caught early, melanoma can spread to other parts of the body and can be fatal. "

(American Safety Council)

Exposure to UV radiation appears to be the most important environmental factor in the development of skin cancer. Scientists believe that the increase in skin cancer has resulted from:

• Increased outdoor leisure time
• Decrease in the amount of clothing worn outdoors
• Decrease in atmospheric ozone levels

Skin cancer is a largely preventable disease. Exposure to UV radiation may be the most important preventable factor in determining a person's risk for skin cancer (American Academy of Dermatology, 1998).

[Dragoon]

But still, does USAF (with their hundreds of doctors and millions in research) mandate its wear? 

If not, why do we think we know better?

Bottom line - there are a MILLION things we could do that might have some small effect, no doubt.  But without evidence that the risk is significantly less with a rather ugly, non-uniform item than with a regular cap and sunscreen, its an overreaction.  (Kind of like high-fiber diets or vitamin C pills.  Sure it helps, but how much?  And is it worth the hassle?  Should we demand these foods at our encampments?)


The most amazing part of this is while we could mandate the kiddies wear a big floppy hat during their CAP time, I got 20 bucks that says when they're on their own time  away from CAP they won't be wearing boonies outside.  And that's a much greater percentage of their total exposure than a couple of SARs a year, protected by a BDU cap and sunscreen.

If, however, we did decide to go with it, it should be mandatory with all utility uniforms, including the golf shirt.  Safety items should not be optional.

In the meantime, I'm waiting for the first lawsuit against CAP by a 40 year old ex cadet who wants to blame his skin cancer on being forced to wear a ball cap.

[floridacyclist]

But still, does USAF (with their hundreds of doctors and millions in research) mandate its wear? 

They allow it, usually by supplement. I wonder why?

Airmen may wear the 8-point desert camouflage or floppy hat to provide protection from the sun's ultraviolet rays,  according to the 332nd Air Expeditionary Wing supplement to Air Force Instruction 36-2903, Dress and Personal Appearance of Air Force Personnel.

In the meantime, I'm waiting for the first lawsuit against CAP by a 40 year old ex cadet who wants to blame his skin cancer on being forced to wear a ball cap.

Don't hold your breath. Like I pointed out earlier, it's pretty close to impossible to prove a direct link due to the timeframe involved.
Even so, you don't see most of us going around snorting asbestos either.

[JohnKachenmeister]

"Safety?"  Wrong!

"Image"  Yes.

I keep mine in my flight bag with my survival gear because it can fold up so small that it takes up very little room.  I don't wear it with my CAP uniform.  I would under the right circumstances, like if I needed the rest of the stuff in my survival gear.

They look silly.  Sure, they keep the sun off your head, but to wear one with a uniform makes you look like you're trying to be some kind of Ranger-Danger Dude that you're not.

This is especially true if you are 12 years old, or look like you are 12, because you don't shave yet.

[Dragoon]

But still, does USAF (with their hundreds of doctors and millions in research) mandate its wear? 

They allow it, usually by supplement. I wonder why?

I don't believe that's a true statement.

Also, safety items should not be "allowed," they should be mandated.  You don't give people options whether or not to be safe.

On other hand, comfort or style items are often "allowed."

[lordmonar]

But still, does USAF (with their hundreds of doctors and millions in research) mandate its wear? 

If not, why do we think we know better?

What I want to know is...since the USAF does not even let USAF member's where it...why do they even carry it in their inventory?!

Bottom line is that it is NOT authorised so lets drop it.  If we do push USAF to let us where it....then we should MANDATE it's where for all GT teams and Mission Base personnel.

My current push is that we should become more uniform in our appearance at least at the mission bases.  Think of what some non CAP person sees when he wanders into the mission base.

No less than eight different combinations authorise for wear....green flight suits, blue flight suits, USAF blues, Whit and Gray corporates, White and Blue corporates, Polo shirt, BDU's and Blue Bdus!

The we add all the different combinations there off and we don't look like a single organisation.

Boonie covers are good and they look cool (let's not fool anyone).  But unless everyone has one on...no one should.

[floridacyclist]

Why would you make someone in North Dakota wear one in December or when it's cloudy? It sounds like you're setting up an impossible task (requiring it's use full-time for everyone) rather than allowing it to be used when appropriate to do so.

Not sure where you're saying that USAF is not allowed to wear it when the uniform reg mentions it as a possible hat to be worn with certain uniforms, plus various supplements cover it as well.

[lordmonar]

Why would you make someone in North Dakota wear one in December or when it's cloudy? It sounds like you're setting up an impossible task (requiring it's use full-time for everyone) rather than allowing it to be used when appropriate to do so.

Not sure where you're saying that USAF is not allowed to wear it when the uniform reg mentions it as a possible hat to be worn with certain uniforms, plus various supplements cover it as well.

As I stated in my rant...I don't think I would go to that lenght...but I would go to the lenght that it everyone should be the same.....

My comment about the USAF (I am active duty) is that in my 20+ years of service...the number of times the boodie hat has been authorised for wear is very very small.   The rules allow for it to be authorise but somewhere between the squadron and the MAJCO levels it never gets authorised or specificly forbidden.

The few times I was allowed to wear it...it was understood that it was probably not authorised...but the deployed commander felt it was better to ask forgiveness than permission.

[DNall]

The few times I was allowed to wear it...it was understood that it was probably not authorised...but the deployed commander felt it was better to ask forgiveness than permission.

Which is the standard employed by a lot of GTLs in the appropriate climates. If you do like John said & pack it w/ your survival gear, always refer to it in that way, and then it gets whipped out so far back in the glades that people hadn't been there in a few years... well I can look the other way for a legit safety case. I don't like that, and I don't personally do it, but I've seen it done, & it's hard to argue against. I'd prefer that AF take the right steps to ensure it's ONLY worn under the strictest conditions, and I probably still won't wear it if that happens, but I have a degree of reasonable tolerance is what I'm saying.

[lordmonar]

Oh I am with you 100% on that.

But the reg hounds would go nuts over it the first time a PAO picture or a new paper artical showed your GT dismounting from the van to go stomping in the back brush.

I like the idea of actually codifing it...i.e. making it a manditory item of the GT gear along with the bdu patrol cap, and then giving the Ground Branch Director with concurance with safety and the IC the authority to dictate if the mission is boonie or patrol cap.

AS I said...one of my peeves is that we are so variform instead of uniform at the mission base (even if everyone is in 100% correct uniform) that it makes us look unproffessional.  Hence my personal desire (until USAF backs off weight and gooming standars) to make the BBDU's and Blue flight suit the only uniform that can be worn by mission base personnel. (except cadets).  I perfer the USAF uniform (I don't own any corporates) but I would gladly give up my USAF unifrom to increase the professional image of CAP.

[arajca]

To everyone who is blaming CAP for not allowing wear of the boonie cap - YOU'RE WRONG.

In May of 2004, the NEC authorized its wear as a SAFETY issue, supported by the CAP/HSO. The AF took exception to it and BANNED CAP from wearing the boonie hat.

So, CAP understands the benefits of wearing the boonie cap, but the AF prohibits CAP from wearing it.