Snack food for thought

[arajca]

Since we're dealing with a lot of heavy issues here, I'd like to throw out some lighter fare for thought.

I am working on proposals for the following:
1. Recognition for SM's who complete the CAP Model Rocketry Program. My thought is a star on the Yeager ribbon.
2. Combine the recruiting ribbons and use the same standard for seniors and cadets - 2 recruits for first award, three more (total five) for second, additional awards for every five members recruited thereafter.
3. An ES training ribbon. First award after completing two SAREX's (AF numbered or CAP numbered), second after participating in a total of five, additional awards for every five afterward.

Notes:
1. I'm trying to get seniors involved in the model rocketry program as well as the cadets, afterall, it's the CAP Model Rocketry Program not the CAP Cadet Model Rocketry Program. Also getting seniors involved helps ensure the program will be run and encourages the cadets to get involved. I don't think allowing the Model Rocketry badge for seniors is necessary, but a star on the Yeager is a simple, inexpensive recognition. Besides, it may help encourage some seniors to take the Yeager.

2. Making the recruiting ribbon requirements the same helps reduce confusion about when a member earns the ribbon. At one time, it may hvae been easier for seniors to recruit new members, but from what I have seen and experienced, it is far easier for cadets to recruit new members than for seniors. At the same time, change to one recruiting ribbon for both seniors and cadets.

3. Many members spend considerable amounts of time and money participating the SAREX's to maintain their skills and qualifications. Currently, there is no way to recognize this sacrifice. Participation in rescue missions and DR missions is recognized by distinct awards, but the only 'award' given for training in the ES patch, and that is only after you have received your first ES rating. The missions that would count would be AF numbered SAREX's and CAP numbered exercises open to wing wide participation. Excerises put on by local units for themselves or restricted to invited others only would not count toward this ribbon, due to the restrictive nature of the exercise. A medal for this award would feature the current ES patch on the coin. Precedence would be after the DR ribbon before the Cadet Orientation Pilot ribbon.

Again, these are snack food for thought.

[MIKE]

2. Combine the recruiting ribbons and use the same standard for seniors and cadets - 2 recruits for first award, three more (total five) for second, additional awards for every five members recruited thereafter.

Didn't this go before the NB recently and did not pass?

[AlphaSigOU]

Excellent ideas...

However, I would also encourage participation in other fields within model rocketry, such as competition model rocketry for cadets and senior members or advanced high power for senior members and cadets over 18. They do need to [censored] the existing MR BDU patch and replace it with an embroidered version of the 'pocket rocket'. Perhaps add a gold star on the Goddard ribbon for cadets who complete advanced model rocketry requirements; silver and/or gold star (one or the other, not both) on the Yeager for completion of basic and advanced model rocketry requirements.

I'd rather see a 'middle ground' for the combined recruiter ribbon: five for the initial award, five more (total of 10) for the bronze clasp, and additional bronze clasps for every five thereafter.

I like the ES training ribbon. Not everyone is going to get to go on a real SAR sortie., but it will encourage members to keep their training up.

Here's what I would recommend for the Basic/Advanced Model Rocketry program:

BASIC PROGRAM: No change from CAPM 50-20. Seniors wear silver star on Yeager ribbon.

ADVANCED PROGRAM: Completion of Basic Program and one of the following:

Active participation in NAR sanctioned competition model rocketry events for at least one year as an individual or as a team.

Achieve Level I in the NAR or Tripoli Rocketry Association High Power Certification Program (senior members and cadets over 18 only)

Cadets wear gold star on Goddard ribbon, seniors wear gold star on Yeager ribbon.

Whadda ya think?

[RiverAux]

I agree with the recruiting criteria though we also need a better way of tracking who gets credit for recruiting them. 

I don't see a need for an ES training ribbon.  Your reward for training is staying qualified in a specialty.  We need to encourage people to actually complete the training and this rewards people for doing what they should be doing anyway.  Why not an award for coming to meetings too? 

[Major Carrales]

How about phasing out the RED SERVICE ribbon and replacing it with a device on the MEMBERSHIP ribbon?

[arajca]

I don't see a need for an ES training ribbon.  Your reward for training is staying qualified in a specialty.  We need to encourage people to actually complete the training and this rewards people for doing what they should be doing anyway.

I can go to one SAREX every two years and officially be "current" in all my qualifications. (I usually go to three to five SAREX's per year). That is all that is required. You say we need to encourage people to actually complete the training. Well, I think this does. It's not like we can give them something like money to encourage them. Yes, ES qualified members should be doing this anyway, but then again the majority of the ribbons CAP has are for doing what we should be doing anyway. If a piece of fabric and metal gets more members to attend SAREX's, is it not worth giving the ribbon out? I forgot to add that only SAREX's after receiving your first ES qualification count.

Why not an award for coming to meetings too?

Red Service Ribbon?

[arajca]

How about phasing out the RED SERVICE ribbon and replacing it with a device on the MEMBERSHIP ribbon?

Cadets are not eligible for the Membership Ribbon, but they are eligible for the Red Service Ribbon.

[mikeylikey]

How about phasing out the membership ribbon.  Isn't that one like saying "wow you watched a video and had a few discussions, good job".  At least the Red Service denotes a members time of service.  It's like saying "congrats on sticking through the political and stupid BS we all have to put up with in CAP". 

[arajca]

Excellent ideas...

However, I would also encourage participation in other fields within model rocketry, such as competition model rocketry for cadets and senior members or advanced high power for senior members and cadets over 18. They do need to [censored] the existing MR BDU patch and replace it with an embroidered version of the 'pocket rocket'. Perhaps add a gold star on the Goddard ribbon for cadets who complete advanced model rocketry requirements; silver and/or gold star (one or the other, not both) on the Yeager for completion of basic and advanced model rocketry requirements.
snip
Here's what I would recommend for the Basic/Advanced Model Rocketry program:

BASIC PROGRAM: No change from CAPM 50-20. Seniors wear silver star on Yeager ribbon.

ADVANCED PROGRAM: Completion of Basic Program and one of the following:

Active participation in NAR sanctioned competition model rocketry events for at least one year as an individual or as a team.

Achieve Level I in the NAR or Tripoli Rocketry Association High Power Certification Program (senior members and cadets over 18 only)

Cadets wear gold star on Goddard ribbon, seniors wear gold star on Yeager ribbon.

Whadda ya think?

The idea is good, but how would you define "Active participation in...team"?

[arajca]

How about phasing out the membership ribbon.  Isn't that one like saying "wow you watched a video and had a few discussions, good job".  At least the Red Service denotes a members time of service.  It's like saying "congrats on sticking through the political and stupid BS we all have to put up with in CAP". 

Officially, the Membership Ribbon denotes completion of Level I of the Professional Development Program. The content and quality of the material may leave something to be desired, but that can change.

[Major Carrales]

How about phasing out the membership ribbon.  Isn't that one like saying "wow you watched a video and had a few discussions, good job".  At least the Red Service denotes a members time of service.  It's like saying "congrats on sticking through the political and stupid BS we all have to put up with in CAP". 

OK, if you want a solution to these issues for a more refined point...

1) Membership Ribbon- More Universal.  Awarded after the completion of 1)Level 1/Curry 2) One full year in CAP. (this is what is needed for GES)  Devices awarded to denote 5, 10, 15, 20 et al years of combined CAP service.

[arajca]

2. Combine the recruiting ribbons and use the same standard for seniors and cadets - 2 recruits for first award, three more (total five) for second, additional awards for every five members recruited thereafter.

Didn't this go before the NB recently and did not pass?

A similar proposal did, but there is nothing to say that it can't go up again. The proposal that went up in March reduced the Senior Recruiting ribbon requirements to the Cadet Recruiting ribbon requirements. (first award after two members, additional awards for every three thereafter).

I'd rather see a 'middle ground' for the combined recruiter ribbon: five for the initial award, five more (total of 10) for the bronze clasp, and additional bronze clasps for every five thereafter.

I think if the first one or two awards are easier you'll get more folks trying to earn it. By the time members get five recruits, they'll have their spiel down pat and it'll be easier to recruit more, hence the increase in the requirements.

[arajca]

How about phasing out the membership ribbon.  Isn't that one like saying "wow you watched a video and had a few discussions, good job".  At least the Red Service denotes a members time of service.  It's like saying "congrats on sticking through the political and stupid BS we all have to put up with in CAP". 

OK, if you want a solution to these issues for a more refined point...

1) Membership Ribbon- More Universal.  Awarded after the completion of 1)Level 1/Curry 2) One full year in CAP. (this is what is needed for GES)  Devices awarded to denote 5, 10, 15, 20 et al years of combined CAP service.

So a cadet gets two ribbons for completing Achievement 1, right?

I'll leave recommendations for the Membership Ribbon to others to suggest/submit/propose.

[Major Carrales]

How about phasing out the membership ribbon.  Isn't that one like saying "wow you watched a video and had a few discussions, good job".  At least the Red Service denotes a members time of service.  It's like saying "congrats on sticking through the political and stupid BS we all have to put up with in CAP". 

OK, if you want a solution to these issues for a more refined point...

1) Membership Ribbon- More Universal.  Awarded after the completion of 1)Level 1/Curry 2) One full year in CAP. (this is what is needed for GES)  Devices awarded to denote 5, 10, 15, 20 et al years of combined CAP service.

So a cadet gets two ribbons for completing Achievement 1, right?

I'll leave recommendations for the Membership Ribbon to others to suggest/submit/propose.

Ho hummm...have it your way I'm out of here.  No skin off my back.

[AlphaSigOU]

Excellent ideas...

However, I would also encourage participation in other fields within model rocketry, such as competition model rocketry for cadets and senior members or advanced high power for senior members and cadets over 18. They do need to [censored] the existing MR BDU patch and replace it with an embroidered version of the 'pocket rocket'. Perhaps add a gold star on the Goddard ribbon for cadets who complete advanced model rocketry requirements; silver and/or gold star (one or the other, not both) on the Yeager for completion of basic and advanced model rocketry requirements.
snip
Here's what I would recommend for the Basic/Advanced Model Rocketry program:

BASIC PROGRAM: No change from CAPM 50-20. Seniors wear silver star on Yeager ribbon.

ADVANCED PROGRAM: Completion of Basic Program and one of the following:

Active participation in NAR sanctioned competition model rocketry events for at least one year as an individual or as a team.

Achieve Level I in the NAR or Tripoli Rocketry Association High Power Certification Program (senior members and cadets over 18 only)

Cadets wear gold star on Goddard ribbon, seniors wear gold star on Yeager ribbon.

Whadda ya think?

The idea is good, but how would you define "Active participation in...team"?

'Active participation' - participate in at least four local, regional or national NAR sanctioned competition launches during the calendar year. You can compete as an individual or as part of a team. Could stand to be fleshed out a little more.

[DNall]

Good ideas...

Recruiting: Combine the ribbons, CHECK. The criteria can stay different, or I tell ya what I like more is the first award criteria stay the same as it is now (2 for cadets, 7 for adults), then a standardized number for follow on clasps. 5-7-10 is a more legit number, but it's set at two to motivate brand new cadets to pick up a couple friends in the first few months of service.

Model Rocketry/Adult AE:
1) I'd really like to combine the rocketry curriculum/reqs/badges btwn AFJROTC & CAP. Oh, and an embroidered version of the metal badge for BDU/BBDU rather than the retarded giant merit badge patch.

2) I got no problem recognizing adults on this, but it should be for a dif set of requirements as a model rocketry instructor, not what we require of cadets. A star on Yeager is fine.

3) Honestly I'd like to see a better overall AE program for adults. Break up Yeager into a two part closed book test. That's ribbon & a bronze star, goes silver when you add rocketry instructor ^^

4) Finally, I don't see why we have an AE badge w/ star for master rate AND a crossfield ribbon (and no other rating has a ribbon). I got nothing but love & respect for Scott Crossfield & really enjoyed meeting & listening to him. I think we can do something better with his name & that ribbon. I say Wg AEO of the year, bronze star for region, silver for national (additional Wg/reg awards indicated by bronze/silver traingles).

How about phasing out the RED SERVICE ribbon and replacing it with a device on the MEMBERSHIP ribbon?

I like this. Makes a meaningless ribbon more meaningful. Just need to clarify rules for cadet wear, or just cut that aspect since they get a gillion ribbons anyway. I also liek the idea of it being active service, which isn't exactly measurable right now, but you know the AF till recently had a good conduct medal w/ some requirementes you might look to. We're talking about each five years satisfactory service gets you a device now, the ribbon you already got on Lvl1. I don't know, yall can play with it a bit. Good idea Joe!

[MIKE]

They do need to [censored] the existing MR BDU patch and replace it with an embroidered version of the 'pocket rocket'.

Emphasis added.

Interesting word choice. 

Maybe we should get with the times and come out with our own Space Wings to replace the pocket rocket?   

[Hawk200]

1. Why do seniors even need a pocket rocket? Seniors already have specialty track badges that cadets can't wear. What's the point of adopting one of their badges for seniors?

2. Combined recruiting ribbons? Like the idea. Set it at five. Clasps for each additional seven (May seem an off the wall number, but second award should take more work. They know what they need after the first one.)

3. ES ribbon?
    a. Then people come to SAR-EX's to get a ribbon, rather than to actually maintain skills.
    b. Then there are some people that will get a patch, a badge (possibly two), and a ribbon for maintaining an ES specialty.
        1.  As far as that goes, it's inequitable.
        2.  Two, the military has a stipulation for decorations that you can not recieve more than one award for a single action. We should follow suit. It should make sense to people as to why.

[SarDragon]

How about phasing out the RED SERVICE ribbon and replacing it with a device on the MEMBERSHIP ribbon?

Apples and oranges. One denotes length of membership; the other denotes completion of an aspect of PD.

Besides, I like my red service ribbon with the 25 on it.

[sandman]

Maybe we should get with the times and come out with our own Space Wings to replace the pocket rocket?   

Cool, "Space Wings", I like it

If cadets earn it, can we actually call them...well, you know