Nameplate on the CSU double-breasted jacket?

[Eclipse]

I'm updating a uniform presentation for tonight - is it assumed that we are still wearing the 2-line nameplate on the
double-breasted jacket?

The Feb 2010 ICL indicates we revert to gray on the shirt, but says nothing about the jacket.

http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/2010_02_16_CAP_uniforms_EA51A6906B737.pdf

[vento]

Good question. IMHO, the best option is to call NHQ per the ICL for clarifications... The rest of us here at CT can only speculate and you know how it goes... 

5. If you have questions or require additional information you may contact Ms Susie
Parker, National Headquarters/DP, at sparker@capnhq.gov.

[Eclipse]

As always she responded very quickly.

Two-line nameplate.

No military ribbons or badges on the CSU (I thought military ribbons had been authorized)

Only black windbreaker, the black overcoat and made headgear mandatory with CSU.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

So does that mean that headgear is required with the CSU, even with the short sleeved uniform?

[Eclipse]

So does that mean that headgear is required with the CSU, even with the short sleeved uniform?

Yes.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Yesterday was the first time I have ever actually seen the uniform, and it is too bad that they are about to be going away.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Yesterday was the first time I have ever actually seen the uniform, and it is too bad that they are about to be going away.

But, of course, they didn't ask the membership.

They don't have to.

[Ed Bos]

@CyBorg:

It sounds like you're not happy about the decision

Not to pick a fight, but IMHO the National Executive Committee made the right call.

Wasn't the new "corporate service uniform" developed with a bunch of pieces and parts of the AF uniform without the approval of the AF? I understand that it's a shame to take away a relatively sharp-looking uniform from members who can't wear the AF-style uniform, but shouldn't we do it as partners with the AF, and not as if we're thumbing our nose at their oversight over these matters?

I would honestly like to be corrected if I have some fact incorrect, but I don't want to start a flame war.

-Respectfully.

[NCRblues]

@CyBorg:

It sounds like you're not happy about the decision

Not to pick a fight, but IMHO the National Executive Committee made the right call.

Wasn't the new "corporate service uniform" developed with a bunch of pieces and parts of the AF uniform without the approval of the AF? I understand that it's a shame to take away a relatively sharp-looking uniform from members who can't wear the AF-style uniform, but shouldn't we do it as partners with the AF, and not as if we're thumbing our nose at their oversight over these matters?

I would honestly like to be corrected if I have some fact incorrect, but I don't want to start a flame war.

-Respectfully.

You are correct. The AF did not like the AF blue grade slides and a few other things. HWSRN "displayed" it on himself at a NB meeting and then forced a vote on it right then. It was not thoroughly vetted by the AF. In fact the CoS of the AF send a letter to some of the brass about that unifrom.

What most members are upset at, is that AFTER the fact, CAP changed the slides to gray, changed the nameplate and something else ( i forgot..its late) but the NEC still voted to kill it.... Now there are many ideas of why they did so...and my personal idea is that they were worried of another "berry boards" incident....

Maybe FW can fill us in a little more....

[indygreg]

Yesterday was the first time I have ever actually seen the uniform, and it is too bad that they are about to be going away.

INWG Conference?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Ed Bos: What NCR said covers a lot of it.

However, the Air Force ASKED us to make changes to the CSU (no metal grade on the flight cap, no U.S. cutouts on the lapels), and we did.

There is nothing on the uniform that says "Air Force" (well, there is now with the grey nameplate).  As I've often said, the AF does not have a monopoly on the colour blue.

I think what bugs me personally the most is that, even with General Courter's modifications, it's STILL being deep-sixed.

It also bugs me that National seems to still be walking on eggshells over something that happened 20 YEARS AGO as the result of a few bad actors (berry boards) and that so many in CAP since then have become zealots against any CAP-distinctive uniform item that isn't grey or white.

[Eclipse]

Wasn't the new "corporate service uniform" developed with a bunch of pieces and parts of the AF uniform without the approval of the AF?

No, it wasn't.

The only "parts" of the USAF uniform were the blue grade slides and metal grade insignia.  The jacket and trousers are not military uniform parts, and everything else on the uniform was either from our existing corporate stable or some other service.

After comment and adjustment, the uniform was approved by the USAF, and after that approval, and for the first time in memory, all members had a uniform choice that fulfilled 100% of the mission for all members.

Barring action by someone before 1 JAN, that will once again not be the case, with a significant percentage of our membership, perhaps 50% or more, left without an equal uniform.

[Major Carrales]

Ed Bos: What NCR said covers a lot of it.

However, the Air Force ASKED us to make changes to the CSU (no metal grade on the flight cap, no U.S. cutouts on the lapels), and we did.

There is nothing on the uniform that says "Air Force" (well, there is now with the grey nameplate).  As I've often said, the AF does not have a monopoly on the colour blue.

I think what bugs me personally the most is that, even with General Courter's modifications, it's STILL being deep-sixed.

It also bugs me that National seems to still be walking on eggshells over something that happened 20 YEARS AGO as the result of a few bad actors (berry boards) and that so many in CAP since then have become zealots against any CAP-distinctive uniform item that isn't grey or white.

What "puts the boogers in my oatmeal" is that so many bought this uniform with assurances that it would be around a long time. People waited years before they ordered it and I heard repeated questions at Wing Conferences where people asked if they were "Safe" in making the purchase.  The service coat was hundreds...bought and then suddenly, it was killed.

What I also found distasteful was that many people "rejoiced" as if they had scored some victory.  1,000s of dollars in wasted member personal funds is no victory.  I don't care how many of you hated Citizen Pineda or this uniform many of you assoicated with him, but a baby was thrown out with the bath water.

It should be pointed out that the CAP/USAF people were there at every stage of that development to voice objections, also, that it had to have been a consensus of NB, BOG and the rest that approved it and that all sorts of official channels had to be followed to begin its production at Vanguard, or in Vanguard's inventory depending on how you want to look at it.

I point to this incident as an example of an action where the cost to memebers was completely out of the picture infavor or potential/alleged "political infighting," "miscommunication" and the tendency for CAP to over-analyze the relationship with the USAF.

[Eclipse]

I point to this incident as an example fo an action where the cost to memebers was completely out of the picture infavor or potential/alleged "political infighting," "miscommunication" and the tendency for CAP to over-analyze the relationship with the USAF.

Very well said.

[Persona non grata]

 :clap: :clap: :clap:I am one of those out some money over this...........very well said!!!!!!!!!!1

[tsrup]

Wasn't the new "corporate service uniform" developed with a bunch of pieces and parts of the AF uniform without the approval of the AF?

No, it wasn't.

The only "parts" of the USAF uniform were the blue grade slides and metal grade insignia.

and service cover/flight cap.

[kmbarnes1]

Has anyone ever brought up having metal grade insignia on the grey epaulet sleeves? I had some on my AF service coat temporarily (Long story) and they looked pretty good and they were not hard to see. In my opinion (regarding Service Coat ONLY), they are still AF distinctive and more professional. For blue shirts, I like the embroidered ones (since this is how AF does it now anyway).

Long Story for those wondering: ordered new 2d Lt epaulet sleeves from Vanguard. Received NCO (blank) epaulet sleeves. Called VG, said they would send me 2d Lt ones overnight. Received Metal Grade butterbars. Called VG again, was told to use the Metal insignia with the blank sleeves until they had 2d Lt ones in stock. CO said ok for that one night only (Cadet Awards Ceremony).

[Eclipse]

VG was 100% wrong.

Your CC was 100% wrong.

This fixation with metal grade is what causes us issues.

[kmbarnes1]

VG was 100% wrong.

Your CC was 100% wrong.

This fixation with metal grade is what causes us issues.

1. Agreed
2. Agreed (I was brand new to CAP at the time, thought that the commanding officer would know best)
3. I was hoping for a little more history/background on this issue. Just being curious (like did we ever use Metal Grade, etc..) Feel free to enlighten me via PM.

[FW]

I point to this incident as an example fo an action where the cost to memebers was completely out of the picture infavor or potential/alleged "political infighting," "miscommunication" and the tendency for CAP to over-analyze the relationship with the USAF.

Very well said.

I can not add anything to the above comments.  You've about covered it all...