Request for SM demotion

[Persona non grata]

Has any person here experienced a voluntary request for demotion ?   I got a guy who want to be put down back to Captain from Major because he feels that there are too many majors in the wing.

Thoughts?

[Tim Medeiros]

I've gotta say, this is a new one for me.

The reasoning is making my head itch too.  I'd counter with that there are no limits and that there are usually more Captains (from personal experience).

[flyboy53]

Tell him to get a grip.  He would be calling attention to himself un-necessarily. The worst part is that a formal demotion like that would probably mean he may never get promoted to major again.

Soooo, unless he wants to be in the captain for life club, you should be counseling him to complete his professional development in order to be promoted to lieutenant colonel. Then he'll see why there are so many majors in his wing....besides how many of those majors are at that rank because that is how far they want to progress in the program?

[Persona non grata]

I honestly think the guy is tired of all the Majors in wing acting like general officers so he does want to be associated with the Major Mafia.  He will be eligible for LTC next month. Intersting thing is that he held equivalent NATO grade(in regards to US military rank) in a foreign military service.  Air corps grade of commandant.

[a2capt]

Well, the flip side, he should be greatfull he could get the rank in the first place, otherwise it could be like PAWG that says no Maj. or Lt. Col. if you are not at least Group CC or Wing Staff, accordingly.

Of course there's loop holes for the GoB network, and others, but .. he can do the Lt. Col. thing and rise "above" them, and set a standard for a different kind of personality, too. Buck their trend. Don't let them dictate what you do.

[jb512]

I don't see how it's a big deal to sweat about anyway.  His own personal rank should have nothing to do with anyone else and it's just CAP.  All it denotes is his standing within this organization.

[RiverAux]

Never heard of that, but if its what he wants, fine. 

[exFlight Officer]

Why not wait and be promoted to Lt Col and as mentioned before, "Rise Above" ? 

Respectively.

[jimmydeanno]

If he only has a month before he's eligible for Lt Col, submit the paperwork for "demotion."  Paperwork usually takes some time to process, about a month sometimes.  Tell him that the paperwork processed and hand him his silver oak leaves.

[Flying Pig]

Thats gotta be the silliest thing Ive ever heard.  Everyone else sucks so I want to be demoted?

[SARDOC]

Somehow, I've got the feeling there is probably more to this story.

[Ned]

The obvious answer is to promote all the other majors in the wing so he can feel unique.

[spacecommand]

First time I've heard of this, if he felt that way, why did he promote to Major in the first place (assuming he didn't attain that rank through Professional Appointments or prior military service, or involuntarily promoted, if that is even possible, though I'm sure rarely to the grade of MAJ).

[JK657]

Not to mention he'd be taking a huge pay cut to be a Captain again

[SARDOC]

Not to mention he'd be taking a huge pay cut to be a Captain again

So how much TIG will he need until he can get demoted to First Lieutenant?

[ZigZag911]

Years ago NJW had a major (I think he is still around) who was so dissatisfied with some of the folks getting promoted to major that he asked to revert to SMWOG.

His request was granted and, as far as I know, he continues to serve CAP as an SM.

[Persona non grata]

He's a reservist in the Irish DF Air Corps they view rank and status a tad bit different than we do.   I got him on the phone and talked to him and he said that another Major in the Wing told him that it is a shame he never served in the military and did not know how to be the real deal.  I'm thinking  this turned him off.  They don't know his current foreign military service situation because he does not let it be known to everyone.  The guy is nothing but prorofesinal.  And in addition, the CAP Major who told him this also dressed down and AF Major at at a GTE(I observed it ,no joke) go figure.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

He's a reservist in the Irish DF Air Corps they view rank and status a tad bit different than we do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Air_Corps_Officer_Ranks_Insignia

It's a bit of a head-scratcher to me how he's able to serve in the IAC (who DO have sharp-looking blue uniforms) and CAP simultaneously...his frequent flier miles must be off the scale!

I concur with others who say that this is the first time I've seen a request for self-demotion in CAP.

However, should CAP ever reinstate a Warrant Officer grade tier (pigs might fly outta...) I would request transfer to that.  CWO3 would be more apropos to what I believe I do with CAP than O-3.

[FARRIER]

Based on what you explained, I would tell him its a good idea to remain in his current grade and that he has much more to offer to the organisation, promote him when the time comes.

He's a reservist in the Irish DF Air Corps they view rank and status a tad bit different than we do.   I got him on the phone and talked to him and he said that another Major in the Wing told him that it is a shame he never served in the military and did not know how to be the real deal.  I'm thinking  this turned him off.  They don't know his current foreign military service situation because he does not let it be known to everyone.  The guy is nothing but prorofesinal.  And in addition, the CAP Major who told him this also dressed down and AF Major at at a GTE(I observed it ,no joke) go figure.

[JeffDG]

He's a reservist in the Irish DF Air Corps they view rank and status a tad bit different than we do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Air_Corps_Officer_Ranks_Insignia

It's a bit of a head-scratcher to me how he's able to serve in the IAC (who DO have sharp-looking blue uniforms) and CAP simultaneously...his frequent flier miles must be off the scale!

Hey...they actually put the "f" in lieutenant...

[Flying Pig]

Not to mention he'd be taking a huge pay cut to be a Captain again

Worse yet, he wouldnt be able to wear his farts and darts anymore.

[ZigZag911]

Well, the flip side, he should be greatfull he could get the rank in the first place, otherwise it could be like PAWG that says no Maj. or Lt. Col. if you are not at least Group CC or Wing Staff, accordingly.

My understanding is that this policy has been rescinded by PA WG.

[spacecommand]

He's a reservist in the Irish DF Air Corps they view rank and status a tad bit different than we do.   I got him on the phone and talked to him and he said that another Major in the Wing told him that it is a shame he never served in the military and did not know how to be the real deal.  I'm thinking  this turned him off.  They don't know his current foreign military service situation because he does not let it be known to everyone.  The guy is nothing but prorofesinal.  And in addition, the CAP Major who told him this also dressed down and AF Major at at a GTE(I observed it ,no joke) go figure.

1. Many in CAP have never "served in the military" and serve CAP just fine.   I work at my squadron with people who have served and those who have not served in the armed forces.  Each person does their best to serve the squadron, that's what I care about.
2. A CAP Major is that, a CAP Major, it's a "real" grade in CAP, just as a USAF MAJ, a fire department MAJ, MAJ PAINE, etc. 
It's not "fake" nor is it something to be ashamed of.  It is a personal accomplishment in CAP especially if he worked his way up to it.

I really don't know how it works with the Irish DF, I assume he as dual nationality which isn't illegal, or is a US permanent resident, which again isn't illegal, and the fact that you know he is with the Irish DF means it's not exactly "TOP SECRET" either,  but his frequent flier miles must be off the charts depending on how much time she spends with the Irish DF.   But any case, I really don't see the problem, in CAP he's serving CAP, his grade can be seen as a personal accomplishment of PD and working his way up in CAP. 

[flyboy53]

It would be cool to know if he has permission from NHQ to wear any of his decorations, ribbons or wings?

There once was a colonel in the California Wing who either served in the French Air Force or earned French Pilot Wings while serving there in the Army Air Forces. He wore it all, sans the military ribbons, and that was impressive.

I think it's an absolute shame that someone with this background would feel that way, especially when I personally would hold his experience and knowledge in such high regard.

[DakRadz]

I got him on the phone and talked to him and he said that another Major in the Wing told him that it is a shame he never served in the military and did not know how to be the real deal.  I'm thinking  this turned him off.  They don't know his current foreign military service situation because he does not let it be known to everyone.  The guy is nothing but prorofesinal.  And in addition, the CAP Major who told him this also dressed down and AF Major at at a GTE(I observed it ,no joke) go figure.

The OTHER Major seems to be the problem. This isn't acceptable behavior for a SM, let alone a Major.
Sometimes talking to the Group/CC (or next highest person above this Maj in the CoC) can do wonders...

It would be cool to know if he has permission from NHQ to wear any of his decorations, ribbons or wings?

There once was a colonel in the California Wing who either served in the French Air Force or earned French Pilot Wings while serving there in the Army Air Forces. He wore it all, sans the military ribbons, and that was impressive.

I think it's an absolute shame that someone with this background would feel that way, especially when I personally would hold his experience and knowledge in such high regard.

All of this, especially the foreign awards part

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

That's different to my experience.

I knew a CAP Captain who was retired from the RCAF (hundreds of hours in the F-5) and moved here to fly for the airlines.  He was a French-Canadian from Quebec, great guy, and a riot.

He told me that he wasn't allowed to wear his Canadian ribbons, but he could wear the metal version of his pilot's wings above his right pocket and the embroidered ones on the right breast of his service dress.





The Irish Air Corps DO have sharp uniforms, to be sure. I wish we could have something like theirs for "CAP distinctive."



Will the IAC allow him to wear his CAP ribbons on his IAC uniform?

[HGjunkie]

I like the look on the face of the guy on the far right. 

[Persona non grata]

That's different to my experience.

I knew a CAP Captain who was retired from the RCAF (hundreds of hours in the F-5) and moved here to fly for the airlines.  He was a French-Canadian from Quebec, great guy, and a riot.

He told me that he wasn't allowed to wear his Canadian ribbons, but he could wear the metal version of his pilot's wings above his right pocket and the embroidered ones on the right breast of his service dress.





The Irish Air Corps DO have sharp uniforms, to be sure. I wish we could have something like theirs for "CAP distinctive."



Will the IAC allow him to wear his CAP ribbons on his IAC uniform?

I know for a fact that the IDF AC has fewer ribbons than we do and to answer the question, they wont allow him to wear CAP badges.  He had to get permission from his command to join CAP.  He has earned NATO and UN awards but cant wear those becuase they were awarded by the Irish Goverment.

[NCRblues]

If he has UN awards, they were given by the UN...which according to CAP NHQ, is a recognized "competent military authority" so...at least the UN awards he should be cleared on...

[spacecommand]

The same is for NATO.

[Persona non grata]

Thanks, I will have to tell him.       Some of his counter parts have made fun of the amount of ribbons the US awards.  I make fun of the amount of different headgear they wear .  Some still carry the swager stick.

[SARDOC]

Thanks, I will have to tell him.       Some of his counter parts have made fun of the amount of ribbons the US awards.  I make fun of the amount of different headgear they wear .  Some still carry the swager stick.

I wouldn't mind carrying a swagger stick sometimes.

[flyboy53]

Holly cow! How things have changed.

Years ago the PAWG's Group 50 had a public affairs offficer who had flown Hurricanes during the Battle of Britain. He was still a qualified mission pilot but he never wore any CAP wings or ribbons. He only wore his RAF Wings and three rows of some pretty impressive RAF medals. Nobody ever challenged him....but then, as I remember there were still plenty of American Air Force officers then with their share of RAF wings and medals.

Those were cool times for CAP. Imagine the AE/history lessons those guys taught? What a shame?

Yet, if the NATO and UN awards are the same as authorized by the Air Force, how can NHQ CAP deny them...I have a foreign award through my Air Force service. Guess I'm lucky for that technicality?

As far as making fun of the number of American medals and ribbons, I remember having the same discussion with a RAAF leading aircraftsman back in 1981 when the RAAF brought their F-111s to train with us at Mt. Home AFB. I think, though, he was a little jealous...especially since I had stripes for rank and he had propellers

[FlyTiger77]

Thanks, I will have to tell him.       Some of his counter parts have made fun of the amount of ribbons the US awards.  I make fun of the amount of different headgear they wear .  Some still carry the swager stick.

I wouldn't mind carrying a swagger stick sometimes.

I actually have a swagger stick......

[Al Sayre]

If he has UN awards, they were given by the UN...which according to CAP NHQ, is a recognized "competent military authority" so...at least the UN awards he should be cleared on...

There are some who would argue about the UN being competent in anything...

[DakRadz]

Thanks, I will have to tell him.       Some of his counter parts have made fun of the amount of ribbons the US awards.  I make fun of the amount of different headgear they wear .  Some still carry the swager stick.

I wouldn't mind carrying a swagger stick sometimes.

I actually have a swagger stick......

Are those technically banned?
I've seen a website with an entire section devoted to their history (which is in and of itself), and there was something to the effect that they had merely fallen out of favor.

Just sayin'. I mean, the Army Blues fell out of favor, but look at 'em now!

[Major Carrales]

2. A CAP Major is that, a CAP Major, it's a "real" grade in CAP, just as a USAF MAJ, a fire department MAJ, MAJ PAINE, etc. 
It's not "fake" nor is it something to be ashamed of.  It is a personal accomplishment in CAP especially if he worked his way up to it.

Well said.  I have pretty sick of people in CAP who seem to have this "self-loathing" for our institutions, traditions and other internal structure. 

We are who and what we are and that is nothing to be ashamed of.  Specious comparisons between our organization and any other to show how CAP is somehow "lacking," "wrong" or "nonsense"  is bunk at best and stupidity at worst.

Until we, as a whole, overcome this ridiculous train of thought...we will never really be able to achieve that station in the scheme of things that we need to be successful.

[Eclipse]

Thanks, I will have to tell him.       Some of his counter parts have made fun of the amount of ribbons the US awards.  I make fun of the amount of different headgear they wear .  Some still carry the swager stick.

I wouldn't mind carrying a swagger stick sometimes.

I actually have a swagger stick......

Are those technically banned?

If by "technically banned" you mean "please don't give me another atomic wedgie for carrying a swagger stick", then yes.

[Major Carrales]

Thanks, I will have to tell him.       Some of his counter parts have made fun of the amount of ribbons the US awards.  I make fun of the amount of different headgear they wear .  Some still carry the swager stick.

I wouldn't mind carrying a swagger stick sometimes.

I actually have a swagger stick......

Are those technically banned?

If by "technically banned" you mean "please don't give me another atomic wedgie for carrying a swagger stick", then yes.

"Swagger sticks," or riding crops, are good "gag gifts" to get your commanding officer for some Squadron "term of endearment," however, carrying one is a bit pretentious.

Since we are not a cavalry rooted organization having one has no traditional basis as might justify it.  Discounting the WWII and subsequent "mounted" CAP squadrons.  However, I still believe riding crops were not a part of their tradition in CAP.

[DakRadz]

Just sayin'. I mean, the Army Blues fell out of favor, but look at 'em now!

This part was meant to show that I was kidding, esp. with the little smiley there

The other was merely trivia I thought I'd share.

WARNING! SARCASM AHEAD
I would never carry a swagger stick- a cane with a concealed firearm or saber has more functionality and looks better too!

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

WARNING! SARCASM AHEAD
I would never carry a swagger stick- a cane with a concealed firearm or saber has more functionality and looks better too!

Nobody has yet questioned the lightsabre hanging from my belt...

[MikeD]

WARNING! SARCASM AHEAD
I would never carry a swagger stick- a cane with a concealed firearm or saber has more functionality and looks better too!

Nobody has yet questioned the lightsabre hanging from my belt...

I would, but only as to which one you got and where you got it from... It would be distinctive.