Storm Spotting & Storm Response

[BrandonKea]

Idea here for everyone to pick at.

I know a lot of CAP members are Storm Spotters, and on the ES side of things, obviously CAP is a great asset for local emergency managers to use for manpower in a response to local natural disasters.

What I would like to see is an ES qualification of Weather Spotter. Responders certified in this qualification could be utilized as an asset by local responders to supplement storm spotting capabilities of existing resources. We're a good fit into this field, with our communications resources, trained personnel, and the fact that a lot of our ES personnel also have a good understanding of ICS, should a larger response be needed.

Obviously a few concerns of this would be the confusion between Storm SPOTTING, where you are primarily in one location reporting what you see, and Storm CHASING, which is what we see in the movie Twister. The "safer" of the two options here is obviously the former. I am not proposing we be involved in any chasing aspect, due to the high risk involved.

Training for Storm Spotting is provided currently by the NWS, in the form of a basic and advanced course. Each can be completed in the course of a night, and it is usually offered by your local NWS office many times a year. Locally, we have previously had the NWS come to a regular meeting to offer the same class.

Obviously this more of a regional thing, but it's still a potential game changer for how local emergency managers view CAP

Thoughts?

[Eclipse]

There are already organizations doing storm spotting, this just gets us playing in their sandbox and potentially
causes resentment from the existing spotters.

If you want to be a spotter, go spot.  We should be involved in the cleanup.

[MICT1362]

Kea,

Because I know where you are from, I totally understand what your getting at.  Yes, we may be getting into somebody elses sandbox, but as long as you don't throw sand, then there shouldn't be any problems.

Our squadron uses the NWS class as an AE related activity once a year, just prior to storm season.  The County EM is always there and notices out presence.  We have been contact a couple of times to spot for the county when they have no other spotters available.  But, it isn't something that we do on a regular basis. 

If you want more info, let me know.

-Paramedic

[RADIOMAN015]

NWS offers "free" courses in many areas (generally about a 3 to 4 hour course). Attendees are provided with a spotter ID# & NWS local contact telephone#.  There is a minimum age requirement for becoming a spotter.

Many license amateur radio operators become trained weather spotters and participate in local skywarn nets that utilize local amateur radio VHF/UHF repeaters.  In some instances the NWS office can access the repeater via "echolink" and talk directly with participants or the NCS, primarily when they see something on radar that "boots on the ground" in a particular area may be very helpful.

I participate in weather spotting via amateur radio skywarn nets and I suggest that when bad weather is in your area program into your radio scanner the local amateur repeater(s) involved in skywarn nets & you will have up to date information on what is happening.

HOWEVER, you do not have to be an amateur radio operator in order to participate the the NWS Weather Spotter program, but it does help quite a bit.   My wing sponsored a course last year in weather spotting.   It is good training to have even if you don't actively participate as a storm spotter.
RM     

[kd8gua]

In Ohio, we are covered by 5 different NWS offices (Cleveland, Northern Indiana, Wilmington, Charleston, and Pittsburgh). Each of these offices has a very unique set of rules as to how SkyWarn spotting works. Everyone, regardless of where you're located, has the ability to call in a report via the locally provided "unlisted" phone number on their ID card, provided they completed the Basic Spotter course. Cleveland SkyWarn uses a system of VHF repeaters for various districts, and a common VHF Lo-Band (6 meters) repeater to communicate between the districts and the NWS office. Wilmington, the office I spot under normally, has a system of district VHF nets, which are often broken down on a county-by-county basis with individual county VHF nets. All of these district nets report to NWS Wilmington via a UHF linked repeater system. Amateur operators in Wilmington volunteer their time and resources to keep the station located at the weather office in working condition. Each district maintains a UHF repeater with either a wide coverage area or a very directional antenna that can successfully contact the NWS office. When Wilmington wants to talk to a specific UHF net to give updates on watches and warnings, they call for the district operators, who then link their repeater to the Wilmington one, allowing for not only direct communication from Wilmington to any point in their warning area, but also to give a heads up to people outside the range of other nets as to weather conditions within the office's warning area. If all else fails, the district nets, along with various police and fire agencies, are subscribed to Ohio MARCS (Multi-Agency Radio Communications System). This is an 800 MHz trunking system that has literal statewide coverage through an extensive collection of repeaters strewn throughout select locations in each county. The NWS can then communicate with the district nets via MARCS.

The county I'm in has a very extensive ES training program, most of it free for anyone to take. Aside from annual Basic and biennial Advanced Spotter courses, many of the FEMA courses required for ES training within CAP are also offered, including IS 300, ICS 700 and ICS 800. They even provide links to the online testing for ICS 100 and 200. Our spotter courses also go into details about the county emergency plan, siren system, and include TV meteorologists to lighten the mood and provide a sense to the new potential spotters of just how important it really is.

I would like to get my squadron to attend this coming spring. I would agree that putting CAP members in potential harm's way to try and chase a tornado or something is not the best practice we could have. I think it's great "official" CAP training, even if it doesn't count towards anything in ES, because if many cadets/seniors etc. showed up in uniform looking professional, it also becomes a great recruiting tool for those interested in ES type activities especially. But if you want to spot or chase, it is best not to do it on CAP's dime, because one wrong turn and you could be in a serious problem.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Why add to ES when some of our guys are already weak in the knees about ES?

[davidsinn]

Why add to ES when some of our guys are already weak in the knees about ES?

You can do storm spotting from your own home and don't require a mission number to do it. For storm response I would suggest CERT training because then they can deploy independent of CAP.

[LTC Don]

I think it's great "official" CAP training, even if it doesn't count towards anything in ES

This is not true at all.  It absolutely counts towards your local ES program, if that is a program you decide you want your unit/group/wing to participate in.

CAPR 60-3 is very clear in several areas that it is up to the wings and below to develop relationships with their local government counterparts and develop plans and programs related to Emergency Services.

To that end, CAPR 60-3 is a complete failure in providing any guidance whatsoever in 'non-traditional' emergency services outside of downed aircraft.

Many wings, North Carolina included, are re-writing the Emergency Services paradigms, and it is going to be very painful.

We are also looking hard at implementing a SkyWarn program, espeically for those areas that are not well served by existing SkyWarn systems.

It really is time for folks to start thinking outside the box a bit, and realize that members are not just going to train, and train, and train, to look for a false alarm elt, and hope an aircraft falls out of the sky every three-four years.  This is where I'm at.  It really is hard, and many older members are going to, and are having a hard time realizing missing aircraft SAR ain't where it's at anymore. The last 'school' I participated in as a ground team leader training, resulted in an ELT sorty find whereby the target had been stuck in the top of a large LP tank near the shool admin building.  Seriously?  I drove four hours and spent a fair amount of money for that privilege. 

Disaster Relief, and related programs such as SkyWarn, CERT, Points of Distribution, and others, are all very viable areas for CAP to get involved in, as long as it is done with a modicum of intelliegence, and with proper plans and program development with continuity documentation (supplements, OIs, regulations, etc.)

North Carolina just held an ICS Incident Managemet Team tabletop yesterday.  It was a very interesting, but a hard to grasp experience as we have no experience with many of the concepts presented.  As this relates to Emergency Services, there is a new level of participation by CAP to have senior CAP members become certified All Hazards Incident Commanders.  This is a HUGE opportunity for CAP members, who have the time and motivation to do so; to take the requisite training and become certified, thus becoming intensely valuable assets to emergency management agencies.  For CAP to have available qualified all hazards Incident Managers greatly increases our value for states who may not have many qualified IMs.  North Carolina currently only has 26, across the entire state.   If CAP produces ten qualified all hazards IMs.....that is a huge benefit.

Does it take a tremendous amount of time and energy to complete the training?  Sure. Does a member who is retired, and looking for something to sink their teeth into have the opportunity to participate in something that is truly meaninful that can greatly benefit CAP at a management level?  Absolutely.



Cheers,

[Flying Pig]

www.aviationweather.gov

Look.  Im a storm spotter!  And Im dry.

[wuzafuzz]

A confession:  I thought weather spotters were just weather geeks with radios.  Then my office got pummeled by a tornado in 2008.  Last year when the weather got dicey I tuned my radio to listen to the local storm spotter net.  They reported a funnel cloud (again) almost directly over my office 15-20 minutes before the weather radio squawked about it.  Of course NWS can't simply cry the sky is falling and must have some vetting process.  But, a lot can happen in 15 minutes. 

Call me a believer now.  They provide a valuable service. 

Weather spotting as a CAP mission?  I suppose it depends on the needs in your neck of the woods. 

[RiverAux]

Getting CAP members trained to do this?  Sure.

But, how could we make it into a "mission" as defined by CAP regulations? 

I see endless hassles with making it an actual ES mission.  Who activates us?  AFAM status?  How are the spotters activated?  Can it be done in time to be worth the effort?  Who is supervising the spotters during the mission?  How are they signing into the mission?  When is the spotter on CAP duty vs private citizen? 

It just can't be that individual spotters "activate" themselves when they see something. 

I just see the hoops we'd have to jump through to make it into an ES mission as more than its worth.  Hold the training at a CAP meeting, but tell them that they're on their own about whether they participate in the storm spotter system or not.  Not much different than giving First Aid training.  Sure, they may use it during a CAP mission, but they can do it on their own time, but CAP isn't involved. 

[RADIOMAN015]

But, how could we make it into a "mission" as defined by CAP regulations? 

I see endless hassles with making it an actual ES mission.  Who activates us?  AFAM status?  How are the spotters activated?  Can it be done in time to be worth the effort?  Who is supervising the spotters during the mission?  How are they signing into the mission?  When is the spotter on CAP duty vs private citizen? 

It just can't be that individual spotters "activate" themselves when they see something. 

I just see the hoops we'd have to jump through to make it into an ES mission as more than its worth. 

Basically, on the amateur radio side, we get an email and/or text msg alerting us to the potential of severe weather.   Activation occurs when reportable weather criteria is observed.  The NWS program is not set up so that weather spotters deploy to the place where the storm is heading BUT is primarily based upon where one is with their radio at the time (e.g. at home) (in transit somewhere) at work etc. the severe weather arrives.  Sometimes, NOAA/NWS will specifically ask for station reports in a very specific area to confirm what their radar is showing. Even NWS as part of the training states that the spotters should not put themselves in harms way, since they aren't responsible for your injuries.

Generally, CAP has so many regulations that have to be met now (including mandatory safety briefing before deployment), that it's very unlikely that a timely response is possible in this support role as a number mission.   Surely after the storm goes through aircrew members can take NWS personnel up in the aircraft, or take photos, and perhaps the ground teams can pass out food or water.

Personally, I can readily & easily do this worthwhile, public safety related mission without being involved with CAP at all right from home, at work, or while in transit.   I can also take action to protect my family, co workers, and myself IF severe weather is heading my way, by monitoring the reports on the amateur radio skywarn designated repeaters (as well as monitoring radio scanner traffic from PD/FD etc) due to the lag in official notification via NOAA weather radio etc (BUT the time lag is improving).   

Remember CAP by far is not the only volunteer organization involved in various aspects of emergency/disaster services, and it might be worthwhile for members to explore the other ground operations options rather than even fool around with CAP's current ES ground training programs that may cost you a lot of money and personal time.
RM     

[FCCSmattskinner]

If you want to be a spotter, go spot.  We should be involved in the cleanup.

I agree with this statement. CAP should be focused on assisting victims and reporting assessments in the event of natural disasters.  I'm a Skywarn volunteer, ham radio operator, as well as a Comm Officer for CAP. There is a time and place for each organization. I live in Oklahoma and there's a lot of severe weather that pop's up during our spring/summer/fall seasons. Being a volunteer of Skywarn, I help spot and report weather information to the NWS as needed. I can't imagine that CAP would ever foot the bill to issue missions on a daily (or as needed) basis, just to spot and report storms. Even if they did pay for it, I doubt CAP would allow it's valuable assets to be used for such events. Since it's going to be paid for out of your own pocket, its better to just be part of a storm spotting group and use your own vehicle and equipment.

[JoeTomasone]

Several years ago, I taught a Basic/Advanced Skywarn class to a CAP audience, but the goal was to tap a base of people who were already community-service minded, not to make it a CAP mission.    I can't say that I agree with making it a CAP mission.