"Memory Work"

Started by Ron1319, November 29, 2010, 10:26:32 PM

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the conqueror

  Even still,  I have a different definition of leadership.  I agree that there are good things on the cadet "memory work".  But how do we know that we are using the same "memory work"?  It's important to be the same throughout.   We need to have actual requirements in some manual or pamphlet that states clearly what is required. 
  Right now it's just "in my personal opinion..."  and that's not good enough.

Mary

davidsinn

Quote from: the conqueror on December 14, 2010, 01:20:52 AM
  Even still,  I have a different definition of leadership.  I agree that there are good things on the cadet "memory work".  But how do we know that we are using the same "memory work"?  It's important to be the same throughout.   We need to have actual requirements in some manual or pamphlet that states clearly what is required.  
  Right now it's just "in my personal opinion..."  and that's not good enough.

 Mary
If it's not in a 52 series reg, manual or pamphlet then it's not required.
Former CAP Captain
David Sinn

the conqueror

  Then why Can the squadrons require it?  Why aren't they told that they are not following the regulations and told to stop?   There needs to be some line. 
  Have any of you ever heard of the Safety Pledge?   I was/am required to know it by our squadron. 

Mary

a2capt

Wax on, Wax off. Sometimes there's a reason for the action without being blatant.

Ron1319

The best response I've gotten is that it's because California wing requires it of cadets at encampment. That brings us back to considering becoming involved in CAWG encampments so I can determine for myself if the focus of encampments in this wing is where I believe it should be.  If they're particularly wrapped up in cadets memorizing a bunch of what I consider to be outdated definitions, then I suspect there is a fundamental problem that ties into the previous post about memorization not equating to understanding.

Specific to our squadron, I would support whatever the cadets want to document in the squadron SOP.  I've also provided my advise to the group CAC that they should take it up to wing CAC with guidance on what requirements would be at what grade.  Given that it appears to be a widespread mess, in my opinion, it wouldn't bother me too much for it to go all of the way to national CAC.  I still hate the whole idea of memory work as anything past the cadet oath still seems to me to be entirely missing the point.

I suppose now is when I should remind everyone that I was particularly good at quiz bowl from my NCC training, and I assure you I memorized more questions and answers than most cadets.  The purpose and focus was different and it wasn't standing in the way of me promoting, as I feel unnecessary memory work requirements are for some cadets.
Ronald Thompson, Maj, CAP
Deputy Commander, Squadron 85, Placerville, CA
PCR-CA-273
Spaatz #1319

PA Guy

^^^
If you think memory work is a problem in your sqdn get rid of it, it is not required by CAWG/CP so it is an easy fix.  If the memory work required in your sqdn is not relavent you can change that also.

Unless things have changed recently the CAWG Encampment SOP requires 5 items of memory work, one of which is the Cadet Oath.  The other four items are related to the cadet program and not some inane thing like How's the Cow. If you don't agree with something like the definition of leadership come up with a better one but you and I both know if you ask 10 people for their defintion you will get 10 different answers. Memory work is just one small part of the CAWG Encampment it is not a major focus of encampment.




Ron1319

I'm not sure why the preference for just changing it in my unit rather than hoping the new group CAC chair could propose something that makes more sense for everyone.  Like I said, I'll support almost whatever the cadet staff comes up with in their SOP they're working on for our unit, but I don't see it as a solution.
Ronald Thompson, Maj, CAP
Deputy Commander, Squadron 85, Placerville, CA
PCR-CA-273
Spaatz #1319

jeders

Quote from: Ron1319 on December 15, 2010, 10:43:59 AM
I'm not sure why the preference for just changing it in my unit rather than hoping the new group CAC chair could propose something that makes more sense for everyone.  Like I said, I'll support almost whatever the cadet staff comes up with in their SOP they're working on for our unit, but I don't see it as a solution.

Because your unit is the only thing that you have any control over. If the CAC chooses to take up the issue, great. But first worry about getting things done in your unit before trying to get the whole group/wing doing things you're way.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

PA Guy

Quote from: Ron1319 on December 15, 2010, 10:43:59 AM
I'm not sure why the preference for just changing it in my unit rather than hoping the new group CAC chair could propose something that makes more sense for everyone.  Like I said, I'll support almost whatever the cadet staff comes up with in their SOP they're working on for our unit, but I don't see it as a solution.

How about because it isn't a CAC issue?  Many sqdns. in CAWG don't have a memory work requirement. Your sqdn for whatever reason decided to have memory work so that is an issue to be solved in your sqdn.  Solve local issues locally.

a2capt

Quote from: Ron1319 on December 15, 2010, 03:28:49 AMThat brings us back to considering becoming involved in CAWG encampments so I can determine for myself if the focus of encampments in this wing is where I believe it should be.
Good luck with that, too, if it's all about "I".  Barging into "encampment" (staff, planning, whatever) with a bull in a china closet like attitude isn't going to go very far in getting you support from your soon to be peers.
I say this based on the tone of your own comments in this thread.
It's not about "I". As it's been echoed, start local.

Ron1319

- I believe there is a severe lack of phase IV cadets in Northern California, as there may only be one or two and most of the cadets in my unit have not been exposed to them.  If they've never seen a c/Col, how are they supposed to aspire to complete the program?
- I believe there is a lack of ES training available to me and that training is extremely hard to schedule and when you do, the trainers have been inadequately prepared
- There is only one cadet in the group known for being the "cadet who's into ES and goes on missions."
- We've gone from about 4 cadet officers in the group to about 10 with 3-4 more on the way in the next few months.  I've been doing everything we can to encourage them to promote.
- I believe that standardization of expectations is one of the roles of the CAC and that inadequately defined memory work goals prior to encampment make it very difficult for me to know what we are supposed to be expecting at our unit.  This is most certainly a CAC issue and if you don't think so, I'd be interested in knowing what you think defines a CAC issue.

Interesting that all of those statements have "I" in them, but none of them have anything to do with me.  I believe there is something fundamentally wrong in order to arrive at the situation that CAP in Northern California is in.  I don't like the bull in the china cabinet analogy because a china cabinet is a beautiful thing used to display things of beauty.  Your implication is that I would be wrecking the display of beautiful things.  My intention is to build something beautiful, not destroy it.  I don't know if there is any blame to be placed on CAWG encampments for this situation or not, as I haven't been to one. 
Ronald Thompson, Maj, CAP
Deputy Commander, Squadron 85, Placerville, CA
PCR-CA-273
Spaatz #1319

RobertAmphibian

Quote from: Ron1319 on December 16, 2010, 09:32:23 AM
- I believe there is a severe lack of phase IV cadets in Northern California, as there may only be one or two and most of the cadets in my unit have not been exposed to them.  If they've never seen a c/Col, how are they supposed to aspire to complete the program?
- I believe that standardization of expectations is one of the roles of the CAC and that inadequately defined memory work goals prior to encampment make it very difficult for me to know what we are supposed to be expecting at our unit.  This is most certainly a CAC issue and if you don't think so, I'd be interested in knowing what you think defines a CAC issue.

First off, while having Phase IV cadets available as mentors is obviously ideal, it's really not completely necessary for a cadet. A cadet can aspire to be a Spaatz cadet without ever seeing a C/Col... I know that's how I started. I used the Phase II and III cadets I knew as inspiration to complete Phases I and II, and once I started attending more wing and region activities, I could use the Phase IV cadets I met there as motivation to continue promoting.
Also, it's really not a CAC issue. There really isn't anything that CAC could or should do to standardize the way that all the units in your group or wing are run. If you want to know what memory work is at encampment, get a copy of the SOP/OI/etc from a cadet who graduates and base your training off of that.
That said, part of encampment is adapting to new situations. There's nothing wrong with going to encampment with a limited knowledge of possible memory work.

the conqueror

#52
  "First off, while having Phase IV cadets available as mentors is obviously ideal, it's really not completely necessary for a cadet. A cadet can aspire to be a Spaatz cadet without ever seeing a C/Col... I know that's how I started. I used the Phase II and III cadets I knew as inspiration to complete Phases I and II, and once I started attending more wing and region activities, I could use the Phase IV cadets I met there as motivation to continue promoting."


  I have been in CAP as a cadet for 4 years now, when I joined my sq, there were not even any phase III cadets.  I had no doubt in my mind that I would "never" get to be a  cadet officer.  It was too far away.  It took me 11 months to become a cadet airman, and that was because I had a PRB scheduled for me.  It took me another 2 years to get to C/SAmn.  At that point I went to the CAWG encampment.  I did get motivation there from my awesome staff and now a little over a year later, I'm a C/2nd Lt, one week out from C/1st Lt.   
   I calculated it, I spent over 7 hours (and that's being generous) in my SOP.  That thing was long!  I think that there are a whole LOT of better things that the encampment staff can have the cadets doing instead of standing there making the cadet's arms fall asleep while holding the SOP in front of their faces.
   Having phase III and IV cadets is VERY important!

Mary

PA Guy

Funny thing about beauty, it is often in the eye of the beholder.  No single individual has a lock on what defines beauty.

If you feel you need to prepare your cadets for encampment download the SOP and have them read it.  It varies little from yr. to yr.

The CAC should be concentrating on things that impact all of the cadets at their level.  Memory work is apparently a problem in your sqdn.  You have the power to fix it today, right now.  This is not necessarily a prob in your group and it isn't a prob in CAWG as a whole.  The CAC should be working on things like how to improve safety in the cadet program or discussing the upcoming changes to RCLS. How about how to improve ES training for cadets in your group.  You don't think memory work is a good fit for your sqdn then axe it today, right now, don't burden the rest of your group with your  problem

There aren't enough Phase IV cadets anywhere in CAP not just NorCal but the solution is not to promote just to fill the gap. Fill that gap with quality cadets not just box checkers.  Having the chance to see or work with a Phase IV cadet, while ideal, it is hardly a requirement for a motivated cadet to succeed.

nesagsar

IL wing used to have a document available that was a study guide for competitions. Everything from the definition of leadership to the light pattern for a commercial helipad was on there. If that document still exists I would love to have a copy of it.

Ron1319

#55
Why is it that every time I bring up on CAPTALK that I'm working to get cadets to promote there's a backlash about how I'm supposedly creating bad, unqualified cadets?  Is there really a problem out there somewhere with c/LtC's and c/Col's who don't know what they're talking about and are bad leaders??  Of course, the best cadets are the ones who are promoting and will make excellent phase IV cadets when they get there.  Some of them are coming really, really soon.  I have yet to see an example in our unit of promoting a cadet past the point that they are ready for.  They typically step up when they've earned more grade and fill the role with excellence. 

I know that if I were in a unit where the atmosphere was "you don't want to promote too fast, you have to learn a lot more stuff first," then I would sit around like Mary suggested and take forever to get each achievement.  Whereas after 14-15 months I was a cadet officer, she just described that she's now playing catchup because she's seen that she has leadership ability of a junior cadet officer, and she can do it.  For the record, she's on my cadet staff, I'm not just guessing.  One of our first goals (my sister, her husband and I) when we joined the squadron was to identify blocks to achievements.  PRB's that were scary and attitude were the two main issues.  We've addressed both of them and now the cadets are promoting.

As far as the assumption that memory work is not a problem elsewhere in the group or in the wing, it obviously is.  As we've discussed here, it's clearly outdated, has no goals to say what should be learned at what achievement, and just the fact that there are BETTER examples out there means that it's a problem that should be addressed.  It's not nearly so much that it's a PROBLEM in our unit, only that it's unclear to them and to me what they should be focusing on and when.  There's a sediment within the unit that we want to send cadets to encampment who are top-notch and well prepared.  I agree with that, but I don't agree with handing new cadets a sheet of paper with a bunch of things and telling them that they're supposed to be able to recite it all back to me ASAP.  When I asked the commander a couple of months ago when they were supposed to know all of those things, the answer was "right away."  That's entirely not realistic along with the other material they have for their first achievement, especially considering that we have a Great Start program in place and we like to see them get their first stripe after Great Start.

As this thread is now about cadet promotions and not about memory work, and I started a different thread on the state of cadet promotions, I'm not sure there's much more value to be gained from this thread.  I would ask anyone to reconsider who thinks that standardization of training material and undefined goals should not throw up a red flag for a CAC chair and scream for their attention.  It is clearly one of their primary goals to identify such issues and propose a correction or improvement.

I guess the deal is that I was in a position as a cadet where I didn't just think in terms of changing things for my unit.  That's incredibly short sighted.  If there was a problem with CAP, I set off to fix it, get people behind fixing it, and make things better.  It's a bit disheartening and perhaps enlightening that so many others in this thread feel that just because it's bad doesn't mean that someone should spearhead doing something about it.  It's not like this is the only problem we're setting off to fix.  This one's more like a pet peeve for me as I strongly dislike memorizing things word for word.
Ronald Thompson, Maj, CAP
Deputy Commander, Squadron 85, Placerville, CA
PCR-CA-273
Spaatz #1319

ol'fido

The problem seems to be that someone at some point decided that before promoting cadets that they would require certain knowledge above and beyond that required by CAP in order to establish a objective benchmark for promotion. The problem with this thinking is that every decision is not quantifiable in this manner. If that were so everyone would just make decisions by plugging in the info to a computer and let it make the call.

Memory work is just memory work. It doesn't make a cadet qualified to promote if they can spout off a canned definiton of leadership from memory. Promotability is still a judgement call on the leadership's shoulders. If you think a cadet is promotable and they have completed the requirements set forth by CAP then promote them. If not, don't. Train them all with the idea that they will all become c/cols but realize that most wont get there. PUT THE DECISION FOR PROMOTING THE CADET ON YOUR SHOULDERS NOT SOME ARTIFICIAL, UNREALISTIC BENCHMARK.
Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
Historian, Group 1, IL-006