"Memory Work"

Started by Ron1319, November 29, 2010, 10:26:32 PM

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Ron1319

The name makes me shudder as my brain does not like the entire concept of memory work.  Google brings me many examples of squadrons and wings having different requirements of things to memorize.  I like this squadron's the best of what I've found online as the objectives are clear:

http://www.mtairy-cap.org/promotion/memory.htm

I'm interesting in learning how different squadrons utilize memory work and what people's thoughts are on the subject.  I've noticed that some of our cadets are more focused on memory work than achievement testing, and that so far is my biggest tangible argument against it.  The next major problem is that I believe if asked for a definition of leadership in quiz bowl at NCC the memory work answer may be incorrect.  How do you ensure that your memory work agrees with the cadet achievement test material?  I appreciate input.

Thank you,
Ron
Ronald Thompson, Maj, CAP
Deputy Commander, Squadron 85, Placerville, CA
PCR-CA-273
Spaatz #1319

coudano

well all cadets need to be able to recite the cadet oath from memory
and identify the cap core values as well.

ol'fido

The entire "I love the smell of napalm in the morning" monologue from Apocalypse Now. Although I thought the Charlie Sheen version that plays after the credits of his move "The Chase" was hilarious. ;D
Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
Historian, Group 1, IL-006

Al Sayre

And the in flight emergency checklist...
Lt Col Al Sayre
MS Wing Staff Dude
Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska
GRW #2787

Ron1319

Quote from: coudano on November 29, 2010, 11:08:28 PM
well all cadets need to be able to recite the cadet oath from memory
and identify the cap core values as well.

Please provide references as to where it says that in the regulations.  Do you know that or were you just told that?  Do you know that the Learn to Lead Core Values are different than the ones listed at the link above? 

Learn to Lead: http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/L2L_Mod1_Ch1_AF_Tradition_B81658040C0E9.pdf
Integrity First, Volunteer Service, Excellence in All We Do, and Respect

Website:
CAP Core Values:  (Sir / Ma'am / Sgt.), the CAP Core Values are Respect, Integrity, Volunteer Service, and Excellence, (Sir / Ma'am / Sgt.).

I would say that the website that cadets are being directed to only has two of the four correct based on the new material.  What are *you* doing to address this?

Ron
Ronald Thompson, Maj, CAP
Deputy Commander, Squadron 85, Placerville, CA
PCR-CA-273
Spaatz #1319

coudano

Quote from: CAPR 52-16 2-4.g.Knowledge of the Cadet Oath. Cadets must recite the Cadet Oath from memory to qualify for promotion.

Quote from: CAPR 52-16 fig 2-2 Leadership ExpectationsAware of the Core Values[/u] ; honest; wears uniform properly; practices customs and courtesies

This is an interpretation measure but basically the way we implement this is:
Phase 1:  Cadet must be able to recite the four core values from memory.  That certainly proves that they are aware of them, doesn't it?

NC Hokie

Quote from: Ron1319 on November 30, 2010, 02:29:04 AM
Please provide references as to where it says that [the cadet oath must be recited from memory] in the regulations.
Since you asked...

Quote from: CAPR 52-16 2-4 g
Knowledge of the Cadet Oath. Cadets must recite the Cadet Oath from memory to qualify for promotion. The Cadet Oath is: "I pledge that I will serve faithfully in the Civil Air Patrol Cadet Program, and that I will attend meetings regularly, participate actively in unit activities, obey my officers, wear my uniform properly, and advance my education and training rapidly to prepare myself to be of service to my community, state, and nation."
NC Hokie, Lt Col, CAP

Graduated Squadron Commander
All Around Good Guy

DakRadz

Seriously:

Did this come up on CT? That our Core Values had changed?

Last time I checked them, they were Integrity, Volunteer Service, Excellence, and Respect. In that order.

However, the new L2L books changed them. Or list them as changed.

Hold the phone, folks....
http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/P050_002_C64238751B2E9.pdf
The CAP Core Values Pamphlet, which is current as of APRIL OF THIS YEAR, still lists the Core Values as what I have posted above.

What is going on? :-[

Ron1319

See?

Now how about the definition of leadership?  I can't find a definition of leadership anywhere in the first chapter of Learn to Lead.  I've gone through it twice, but it's possible that I missed it somewhere.  Maybe it's later on.  I haven't gotten further than the first chapter, yet.  For some reason if I ask all of the cadets in my new unit, they all spout off the same thing, though.

Ron
Ronald Thompson, Maj, CAP
Deputy Commander, Squadron 85, Placerville, CA
PCR-CA-273
Spaatz #1319

PHall

Quote from: Ron1319 on November 30, 2010, 04:53:12 AM
See?

Now how about the definition of leadership?  I can't find a definition of leadership anywhere in the first chapter of Learn to Lead.  I've gone through it twice, but it's possible that I missed it somewhere.  Maybe it's later on.  I haven't gotten further than the first chapter, yet.  For some reason if I ask all of the cadets in my new unit, they all spout off the same thing, though.

Ron

Stuff like The Definition Of Leadership is not required by the 52-16. But memorizing it is one of the things you will be asked to do at a CAWG Encampment.
Take a look at the Activities, Encampment tab of www.cawgcadets.org  it's in the Encampment SOP.

Ron1319

I haven't been to an encampment since '95 when I was a member of the executive cadet staff.  Since the CAWG encampment SOP will never apply to me, why would I ask my cadets, or better yet why would CAWG's encampment planners require cadets to learn information unsupported by the current cadet training material?  "Because some planning an encampment 20 years ago thought it was a good idea" does not seem like an adequate resolution.  I can ask my cadet leaders to take it up through CAC, but that's not precisely my point.
Ronald Thompson, Maj, CAP
Deputy Commander, Squadron 85, Placerville, CA
PCR-CA-273
Spaatz #1319

Daniel

I notice to things,

1. When I answer a question to a superior, I got called on saying sir/ma'am/sgt before and after. We apparently don't say sir/ma'am/sgt before the answer, only after.. We are not nor have we ever been the marines..

2. The cadet honor code ( I will not lie, cheat, or steal, nor tolerate those among us who do) has been snabbed from the AFA which has the addition (Furthermore I resolve to do my duty and live honorably so help me god)

and personally I don't think id do well in a sqn that requires memorization of such things like the preamble of the Constitution and the mission statement of CAP

Seems like they make thier cadets memorize some pretty trivial information and some of which has been changed so that its useless outside of the sqn level...

Win some, lose some. right?
C/Capt Daniel L, CAP
Wright Brothers No. 12670
Mitchell No. 59781
Earhart No. 15416

Nathan

I always remembered the cadet oath, honor code, and motto. These are things cadets should know by definition, since they are fundamentals of the cadet program and CAP, and designed to guide the entire development of a cadet.

Things that most cadet should know are the 3 missions of CAP, the founding date, a little bit about the history, the national commander, and so forth. Not only is this kind of information useful just in interaction with other CAP members, but any cadet who wants to recruit should know enough about the program to talk about it in the level of detail a prospective member would want.

I have seen memorization work at encampments that I did not feel was particularly important. Understanding the chain of command all the way to the President, for instance, is just busy work, as the type of work that goes on above the wing level is rarely going to involve any individual cadet anyway. Things like "when was the USAF formed" and such is also not of particular interest to me. While this kind of information is valuable for cadet officers taking AE tests, the date of the USAF creation is not something that's going to play a huge role in the cadet program.

I find some memorization, like the "definition of leadership", actually harmful to the cadet program. Given that it is generally accepted that there IS no flawless definition of leadership, and the entire point of the cadet program is to give the cadets the skills they need to create their own definition, then force-feeding them a cookie-cutter version is just going to cement a counter-productive block in their mind. I want them thinking about leadership, not being told what it is.
Nathan Scalia

The post beneath this one is a lie.

nesagsar

When I started as a cadet we tried to get people to memorize as much as possible from the uniform, customs and curtosies, leadership, and aerospace books partly because we knew they would have to know it for advancement testing but also because we were planning to send a team to wing color guard competition the next year. At that competition we took the top 3 spots in the knowledge testing (the fourth and fifth members finished in the top 15). Our squadrons rep also took first place in the knowledge bowl at the wing winter encampment.

What you memorize is entirely based on your unit's goals. If you have no desire to compete in competition then all you really need is the cadet oath, core values, chain of command, and honor code.

Ned

Quote from: Ron1319 on November 30, 2010, 06:21:26 AM[W]hy would CAWG's encampment planners require cadets to learn information unsupported by the current cadet training material? 

Perhaps because the CAWG encampment planners believe that the requirement supports their training objectives?

After all, I haven't seen anything in the current cadet training materials about how to clean a barracks, make a bed, or brush their teeth.

And yet we make them do that, too.

The use of memory work is widespread, but certainly not required in most units or activities beyond the Cadet Oath required by the 52-16.

And obviously reasonable minds differ on the value of memory work, or at least on how much memory work is valuable.

Perhaps over time we can build a consensus by watching which cadet training methods are more likely to lead to success.

Fair enough?

Ned Lee

DakRadz

Quote from: DakRadz on November 30, 2010, 04:40:23 AM
Seriously:

Did this come up on CT? That our Core Values had changed?

Last time I checked them, they were Integrity, Volunteer Service, Excellence, and Respect. In that order.

However, the new L2L books changed them. Or list them as changed.

Hold the phone, folks....
http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/P050_002_C64238751B2E9.pdf
The CAP Core Values Pamphlet, which is current as of APRIL OF THIS YEAR, still lists the Core Values as what I have posted above.

What is going on? :-[
Can we address this somewhere?

Really. A distortion of our Core Values is probably the worst Charlie Foxtrot I've seen from the National level so far...

Ron1319

Quote from: Ned on November 30, 2010, 05:45:03 PM
Perhaps because the CAWG encampment planners believe that the requirement supports their training objectives?

A wordy definition of leadership that although widespread doesn't seem to be documented anywhere else?  Perhaps.

Quote from: Ned on November 30, 2010, 05:45:03 PM
After all, I haven't seen anything in the current cadet training materials about how to clean a barracks, make a bed, or brush their teeth.

I haven't taught a cadet to brush their teeth, but I see your point.  If we were having cadets memorize a list of steps to brush their teeth word by word, I'd object to that.

Quote from: Ned on November 30, 2010, 05:45:03 PMAnd yet we make them do that, too.

They do those things, but not as memory work.

Quote from: Ned on November 30, 2010, 05:45:03 PMPerhaps over time we can build a consensus by watching which cadet training methods are more likely to lead to success.

But is this happening?  It seems very significant to me because it ties into a PRB process and cadets feeling unprepared to promote.  With unclear objectives, the cadets are essentially being held up.  We have a cadet at our unit who just reached c/SMsgt who has been a member for 5 years.  I had my Spaatz for over a year at the 5 year mark.  I'm working to understand what barriers got in the way of the cadets who are in this situation and I think it comes from the emphasis being on the wrong material.  In other words, if a long list of things that I would have to struggle for days to memorize was being held over my first or second promotion, I'm not sure I'd consider it to be worthwhile.  That's why I cited the website in the original post.  I liked the specific objectives for each promotion, many of which seemed to compliment the existing curriculum. 

The method that I've seen work is to encourage promotion.  We had a cadet very disappointed because they did not get a staff position at wing encampment.  Whereas I see the point that there were cadets with much less grade who did receive staff positions, and this cadet has a right to be a bit upset by this, my argument to the cadet was that if they were a c/LtC they would not have been passed over.  This cadet was a c/2Lt at the time and certainly could have much more grade with a more rigorous promotion schedule.

In other words, it only really matters to be as it was an undefined barrier to promotion in my new squadron when we first joined and I'm working on breaking down that barrier.

Hopefully this thread gets some cadets and seniors to consider the priority between the achievement curriculum and a  long list of things to memorize.   

Ron
Ronald Thompson, Maj, CAP
Deputy Commander, Squadron 85, Placerville, CA
PCR-CA-273
Spaatz #1319

jeders

Quote from: DakRadz on November 30, 2010, 09:44:05 PM
Quote from: DakRadz on November 30, 2010, 04:40:23 AM
Seriously:

Did this come up on CT? That our Core Values had changed?

Last time I checked them, they were Integrity, Volunteer Service, Excellence, and Respect. In that order.

However, the new L2L books changed them. Or list them as changed.

Hold the phone, folks....
http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/P050_002_C64238751B2E9.pdf
The CAP Core Values Pamphlet, which is current as of APRIL OF THIS YEAR, still lists the Core Values as what I have posted above.

What is going on? :-[
Can we address this somewhere?

Really. A distortion of our Core Values is probably the worst Charlie Foxtrot I've seen from the National level so far...

Nope. L2L still has the same core values, they just added a few words to make it look better.

Quote from: Learn to Lead, Vol 1The Core Values are the four basic qualities
CAP expects all members to display at all times: Integrity
First, Volunteer Service, Excellence in AllWe Do, and Respect.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

DakRadz

#18
That's distorting them. Just like the Triangle Thingy is a distortion of our heritage- there's a true CAP symbol that looks quite a bit like it.

They replaced two of our Core Values with two of the USAF's. I have an issue because it isn't official, nor necessary.

Think the Triangle Thingy still looks the same and represents the historical and official version?

I think it's (the Core Values mod) a mistake- and I wonder if they even know they did it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
Nuked after a very good point by FlyTiger.

PA Guy

Ron,

You seem to be saying that the only thing that matters is promotion and the only thing that should be taught is just what is on the test?  In other words the road to success is simply teaching the test and nothing more.  The cadet program is a lot more than promoting and teaching the test.

Lengthy non CAP related memory work is just a waste of time.  However, requiring someone to know a few items that are CAP related doesn't create an undue burden.

As for your example of the cadet not being selected for an encampment staff job, maybe just maybe, he wasn't the best for the job(s) he applied for?  I doubt his grade had little to do with it.  And telling him if he had been a C/Ltc they wouldn't have dared pass him over sends the wrong message.  It tells him that as long as he promotes he will get whatever he wants and that is just wrong.