Should uniform inspections be a required part of senior member meetings?

[RiverAux]

Okay, everbody acknowledges that there are quite a few CAP officers who do not wear the uniform correctly.  Either they don't care or more likely, were never really taught how to do it right.  Nobody generally bothers to correct them because they're worried about being seen as a nitpicking jerk.  Squadron commanders are generally focused on bigger issues and are usually too busy to deal with this and are generally hesitant to correct folks for fear of driving people away.  It is obvious the current system does not work well or consistently. 

The only way I see to address this issue is to make a regulation that requires that squadrons hold a minimum number of in-formation uniform inspections during regular meetings each year.  Perhaps on a monthly basis.  The cadets probably already exceed this requirement, but it is sorely needed for officers.  Not only would this force people to pay attention to the issue it would actually help us out a little bit by teaching officers how to get in formation and practice some minimum military discipline. 

And just to pre-empt that one person who says this in any thread involving a uniform issue --- Yes, I know this isn't super critical to CAP and the world won't end because of this problem, but it is something we need to deal with. 

[CAP428]

Yes.  There is nothing wrong with expecting people to follow regulations.  I think many people see the uniforms (especially the corporate/distinctive uniforms) as just something to wear, but they forget that there are actually regulations governing the wear of said uniforms.

Uniform inspections would hold everyone accountable for wearing correctly whatever uniform option they choose to wear.  It is not much to ask, and it only improves our reputation and also provides a good example for cadets.

For example, I just got back from my Wing's Cadet Conference, and there is one senior member who is known for his tough attitude and ability to intimidate people.  He spent the entire weekend wearing the polo/gray slacks combo along with an unbuttoned BDU blouse and a RealTree hunting hat.

Needless to say, nobody corrected him due to fear they would be chewed out due to his reputation for less-than-friendly personality when people confront him.  So, our wing's cadets got great exposure to the mindset of "I'm above the regulations."

The proposed uniform inspections you mention could only help things.  I really don't see a downside except that those who don't like to wear the uniform properly will no longer be able to do so, and might actually have to spend *gasp* a few minutes before each meeting making sure their uniform is properly assembled.

If a 12-year-old C/Amn can do it, surely a fully-grown adult can too.

[A.Member]

Yes.  Why not?!  About once per quarter or so,  we take a portion of our weekly meeting and allocate to a uniform "class" for officers.  The proper wear of the uniform, along with customs and courtesies, are reviewed.  All questions are addressed.  It's a good idea.

[arajca]

I don't see a universal need for it. For example, in my unit, I am the unofficial uniform nit-picker. I look over each SM (and cadet) during the meetings. I will mention any flaws I see on the side to seniors or to the cadet commander for cadets. However, I do not get the ruler out and measure insigna placement. I try to remind all cadets and seniors that after being pinned, they will need to double check the insignia placement before the next meeting, but we do not expect them to check it at the meeting they get pinned at.

I don't usually find violations.

[lordmonar]

Sure why not.

On the other hand....CAP uniforms are NOT required at senior only meetings, so you may not get much participation, but at cadet or composite meetings...definately.

[Major Carrales]

I read a story on line, of which is can no longer find, about an army officer back in the late 1940s coducting and inspection of USAF personnel.

Some had basic Army Air Corps uniforms with Air Force Cheverons, some had Ike Jackets, some had Khaki undershirts, some blue undershirts, some bluer still undershirts, some had even other combos.  In the end of the story the Army officer gave up in that it was fruitless.

Ahhh...The transition era, my late uncle told me all about it.  Some of you blokes may have lived it.

Now, need I mention the problem with CAP uniforms?

[carnold1836]

No matter how many varients there are we should be setting an example to our cadets.

That being said I believe we as CAP officers should abide by the same routines we put the cadets through in regards to formation and inspections. I see nothing wrong with an inspection each month by the DCS when the cadets are being inspected. Lead by example is what I have been taught time and again.

In fact a huge issue that cadets have with officers, second only to the quality of our salutes, is the proper wear of uniforms. If we can't wear what ever uniform we decide to wear properly than how can we expect them to follow suit.

Just my .02, but something to chew on.

[Eclipse]

Yes.  There is no excuse for an improper uniform.

I'm not weighing people at the door, but in nterms of mixing parts, insignia placement, etc., there is no excuse.

If you can't take the time to read 39-1, buy a golf shirt and move on.

If you can't wear a golf shirt properly, just move on...

[dwb]

It is the commander's responsibility to ensure his members are wearing their uniforms properly.  It says so right in CAPM 39-1, para 1-2:

All commanders will ensure that all members, individually and collectively, present a professional, well-groomed appearance, which will reflect credit upon CAP as the auxiliary of the United States Air Force. They will ensure all members are uniformed in accordance with the provisions of this manual, uniform violations are promptly corrected, and that members are continually informed as to the proper wear of the uniform.

So, it's already written in the regulations.  How commanders implement this is really up to them, and in-formation uniform inspections are just one way to make that happen.

I disagree that they should be the only way, which is basically what RiverAux is proposing.  When I was a squadron commander, I inspected uniforms all the time, pretty much any time I looked at someone, I did a uniform once-over.  I still do, it's a habit I can't break.

I understand and agree with the intent (making sure members wear their uniforms properly), but mandating formal inspections isn't the solution.  Commanders who don't enforce uniform regulations now will probably just ignore the new requirement.  Commanders who don't know the uniform regulations won't know what to look for in a formal inspection.  Commanders who already abide by the regulations will probably find a mandated formal inspection to be an inconvenience.

So you'd essentially be punishing the people already doing things right, while having no effect on the offenders.

[LtCol White]

Of course! The cadets inspect their uniforms at every meeting. Whats good for the cadets is even better for the seniors in this repect. If USAF sees us policing our ranks better, this will bode better for uniform issues in the future when put before HQ USAF

[JohnKachenmeister]

I read a story on line, of which is can no longer find, about an army officer back in the late 1940s coducting and inspection of USAF personnel.

Some had basic Army Air Corps uniforms with Air Force Cheverons, some had Ike Jackets, some had Khaki undershirts, some blue undershirts, some bluer still undershirts, some had even other combos.  In the end of the story the Army officer gave up in that it was fruitless.

Ahhh...The transition era, my late uncle told me all about it.  Some of you blokes may have lived it.

Now, need I mention the problem with CAP uniforms?

I didn't "Live it," since I was just a little soldier then.  But try renting "The Big Lift" from your video store.  It is a docudrama about the Berlin Airlift with all parts (Except the major stars) played by real G.I.'s or German nationals.  It shows pretty well the transition in  the uniforms, as well as a glimpse of the lifestyle of the post war and band-new US Air Force.  It would be great for a meeting night, too.  There is a love story, but no skin.

[MIKE]

On the other hand....CAP uniforms are NOT required at senior only meetings, so you may not get much participation, but at cadet or composite meetings...definately.

Are you sure about that?

when engaged in normal duties as a CAP member or attending local,
wing/region, or national CAP functions (see note 1).

Doesn't say Optional.

[LtCol White]

Anyone who doesnt want to wear the uniform needs to leave. Uniforms should be required at all meetings.

[MIKE]

Anyone who doesnt want to wear the uniform needs to leave. Uniforms should be required at all meetings.

My read of Table 1-1. is that they are.  This might be different than was previously in CAPM 39-1, but it's probably why they added the CAP Distinctive Basic Uniform in the latest revision.

[A.Member]

Uniforms should be required at all meetings.

Absolutely!  ...and as MIKE points out, I believe they are.

[flyguy06]

I wish we had those kinds of issues. Most of the Senior Members that come to our Squadron meetings wea the blue shirt and grey slacks. I am trying to get them to wear military uniforms more since we have cadets and I want them to set the example.

[CAP428]

I wish we had those kinds of issues. Most of the Senior Members that come to our Squadron meetings wea the blue shirt and grey slacks. I am trying to get them to wear military uniforms more since we have cadets and I want them to set the example.

It's the same way for us.  I can only think of two senior members in our composite squadron that wear the Air Force style uniforms.  The problem for us lies more in when we go to wing-wide events, often they will pull out AF style uniforms from apparently the bottom of their closets and don't worry about ironing them or placing the right insignia in the right place.  They just put on the wrong things and go!

I think these inspections could really help set an example.  There really can be no harm done.

[Psicorp]

I wish we had those kinds of issues. Most of the Senior Members that come to our Squadron meetings wea the blue shirt and grey slacks. I am trying to get them to wear military uniforms more since we have cadets and I want them to set the example.

It's the same way for us.  I can only think of two senior members in our composite squadron that wear the Air Force style uniforms.  The problem for us lies more in when we go to wing-wide events, often they will pull out AF style uniforms from apparently the bottom of their closets and don't worry about ironing them or placing the right insignia in the right place.  They just put on the wrong things and go!

Ack!!  Time to padlock the coffee maker and bring out the clue-by-four.   

[CAP428]

Ack!!  Time to padlock the coffee maker and bring out the clue-by-four.  

What does that mean? Sorry,  I don't understand.

[DrJbdm]

Here's my take on the whole situation. We mandate thru regulations that we must wear the uniform properly and in accordance with CAPM-39-1. So we have a mandate that says members are to wear the uniform properly, and it tells us how the uniform should be worn.

  then further in CAPM 39-1 it also says "ALL Commanders WILL (key word) ensure that all members, individually, and collectively, present a professional, well groomed appearance, which will reflect credit upon CAP as the Auxiliary of the United States Air Force. They will ensure all members are uniformed in accordance with the provisions of this manual, uniform violations are promptly corrected, and that members are continually informed as to the proper wear of the uniform." further in section 1-1 it says "COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY"  The problem I see is not that we don't have any regulations governing this stuff, it's that we have no teeth in the regulations to enforce it. I personally don't see any lee way for Commanders getting out of inspecting their units for proper uniform wear, Seems to me that you could have that Commander removed from office for failure to follow his duties. Not that we would ever see that happen, after all alot of squadrons are run like Boy Scouts with Airplanes and the regulations are treated as guidance but not orders. We NEED a stronger regulation that spells out the commanders duty and directs them how to carry out that duty.

  If we placed a directive to the unit commanders to have uniform inspections monthly and we placed it on the group commanders to make sure it was done then maybe we might get it done. The problem unfortunately is that there are MANY commanders who have NO CLUE how to wear a military uniform to CAP/USAF standards (I'm talking about ALL uniforms)....but they could certainly get a good cadet senior NCO or Officer to teach them and show them.

  As a former cadet officer, I know how to wear the uniform but sometimes I may make a mistake and I would love the feedback from an inspection. Having these kinds of formal uniform inspections along side the cadet uniform inspections would hold us as Officers accountable not only to our Commander but to our cadets. So yes, lets do it. Lets police ourselves before they send someone in to police us.

  A really good OTS for new officers would help with this problem greatly!

just my .02 cents, for what it's worth.