what's with the boonie hats?

[cap235629]

I just read the SWR newsletter.  I was dismayed to see the appearance of woodland boonie hats on members, both cadet and senior, in multiple wings.  Once again the PAO staff is asleep at the switch. Every time the publish something like this, the problem gets worse.

http://swr.cap.gov/PAO/2010-3_The_Fly-By.pdf

[a2capt]

Boonie hats, berets.. 

[RiverAux]

Just be thankful it was only people from Oklahoma and Arizona Wings and not examples from every state in the region. 

Are we surprised that when a boonie style hat is approved for one uniform that is worn with another uniform as well?  The C in CAP does not stand for consistency. 

[a2capt]

Covers Are Plentiful ...

[DakRadz]

Page 19- the two C/Lts going to West Point and Colorado Springs. I would love to see them after visiting the Academy barbershop. I know, we don't like doing this (bashing people in photos), but as someone who wants to go to an Academy, I'd have my hair cut to regs for the Region picture (I always do anyway) and I would shave before the meeting, too (once again, already my habit). They know better, too, is what kills me... Cadet officers AND Academy selectees.

As far as the boonie hats... Well, there are a few things that CAPM 39-1 is clear on. If you read it, you know that only BBDUs can have boonie hats.

Many people don't read CAPM 39-1.

[a2capt]

Many may not read, but a good many of those, I get the impression, read by proxy. "Well, I was told.. " "he said, that she said".. 

[Hawk200]

As far as the boonie hats... Well, there are a few things that CAPM 39-1 is clear on. If you read it, you know that only BBDUs can have boonie hats.

Many people don't read CAPM 39-1.

One problem there. It's not in 39-1, it's in ICL 2008 04 01. The manual isn't up to date. Blame lies on both sides: people not keeping up with changes, National not updating pubs.

Many may not read, but a good many of those, I get the impression, read by proxy. "Well, I was told.. " "he said, that she said".. 

That's problem number two. There's a lot that's in the basic manual that isn't being followed. About a year ago, I asked cadets "How did you know how to wear your uniform?" The common answer was "I just wore it the way I saw everyone else wearing it."

That was a month after  I gave each cadet in that unit a CD with all the pubs on it. I simply downloaded them, dumped them on a CD. Nobody bothered to even look at them. How do I know? I asked, they all told me they hadn't.

Covers Are Plentiful ...

That's funny. Mostly because of the truth of it.

[HGjunkie]

OP:

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

I nominate this thread for the best use of pictures to communicate award.

[Major Carrales]

I would strongly suggest, that next time, before making a post such as this; that you contact the PAO in question to see what is up.

I fact, I have done so for you.

It is possible that that item was allowed via a Wing Commander's orders as a safety item.  I couldn't tell you one way or the other.  But, what I will say is this...always contact the PAO first(if possible) , confirm all aspects of the comment you are making and prepare to stand by or appologize for those remarks.

[BillB]

The Wing Commander can NOT authorize a uniform item that the Air Force say can not be worn with AF style uniforms. Big Blue was very specific refusing to allow boonies to be worn with BDUs.

[lordmonar]

The Wing Commander can NOT authorize a uniform item that the Air Force say can not be worn with AF style uniforms. Big Blue was very specific refusing to allow boonies to be worn with BDUs.

Well here we go again.

Yes that is what the regs say....yes that is what we should all do.....but AFAIK Region and National or CAP-USAF have yet to every bring a wing commander to task for said violations.

So...it make no sense for anyone to rant and rave about what a wing commander can do.

[Hawk200]

The Wing Commander can NOT authorize a uniform item that the Air Force say can not be worn with AF style uniforms. Big Blue was very specific refusing to allow boonies to be worn with BDUs.

Agreed. I may not agree with the rationale that the Air Force gives us, but the Air Force's word on it is "No." As such, we don't wear it.

Yet, we have so many people in CAP that wonder why Mother Blue has issues with us.

[Major Carrales]

The Wing Commander can NOT authorize a uniform item that the Air Force say can not be worn with AF style uniforms. Big Blue was very specific refusing to allow boonies to be worn with BDUs.

Well here we go again.

Yes that is what the regs say....yes that is what we should all do.....but AFAIK Region and National or CAP-USAF have yet to every bring a wing commander to task for said violations.

So...it make no sense for anyone to rant and rave about what a wing commander can do.

I would like to add to this if I may.  We have seen lots of people throw around the term "Wing King" as if it was some original pun.  That being said, a Wing Commander has a great deal of prerogative over lots of matters.  One can make any argument they want, but if I am at an event and a CAP Col says something is to be done...despite the UNIFORM regulatons...it is not the 1st Lt's role to defy the order.  You would think it would be enough to cite a regulation, however, practice and protocol are many times different.

Additionally, there are many people who will wear the boonie hat and quickly stow it once authority arrives, and these are not cadet we are talking about.  Unless we plan to have "Political Officers" in the unit informing about such things and a GESTAPO like enforcement of these things they will continue to exist.

The USAF likely cares little about this in the grand scheme.  I am also going to point out that, based on photos from the fields overseas via good friends, lots of ACTIVE DUTY soliders and airmen are wearing lots of unofficial things ranging from bandanas, baseball caps of MLB teams and less than military pins.

This leads me to believe that "culturally" it is the norm for people in uniformed situations to "customize" to some degree.  Even the students at the school where I teach do this to their coordinated school dress (uniforms). 

This is not a justification of said practices, but, rather an analytical look at the rationale behind them.  Do with that as you would.

[RiverAux]

I think that in some cases having photos like these slip through the cracks into the public affairs system may actually help in obtaining regulation compliance.  Its hard to ignore the fact that people are wearing them in violation of the regulation when its in your newsletter and the powers that be are a little more likely to put the word out to stop it. 

[jimmydeanno]

This is probably the widest distribution that this newsletter's had.  Seems like the PAO did something right. 

[Hawk200]

I am also going to point out that, based on photos from the fields overseas via good friends, lots of ACTIVE DUTY soliders and airmen are wearing lots of unofficial things ranging from bandanas, baseball caps of MLB teams and less than military pins.

And it's not right over there either. We regularly had to deal with that issue on deployment, and I knew of Article 15s for consistent offenders.

Two wrongs don't make a right, never have. When people are told no and do it anyway, that's intentional violation.

As to Wing Commanders, rarely do many of them know of the "variation" until after the fact.

A lot of CAP members keep taking the view of "I'm a volunteer!" too far. Being a volunteer doesn't mean picking and choosing rules to follow.

[lordmonar]

And yet the USAF still doe it.

In my 22 years of AD I have seen and done lots of things that were against the regulations.

Unauthorised unit shirts, strange hats, morale patchs.

My point is that of all the things we point out that Ma Blue may have heart burn about......this sort of uniform thing is pretty low on the list.

[PHall]

I would strongly suggest, that next time, before making a post such as this; that you contact the PAO in question to see what is up.

You strongly suggest??? Are you his Commander or above him in the Chain of Command?

You have no more authority then anyone else here. So please stop the chest thumping.
It's undignified.

[Major Carrales]

I would strongly suggest, that next time, before making a post such as this; that you contact the PAO in question to see what is up.

You strongly suggest??? Are you his Commander or above him in the Chain of Command?

You have no more authority then anyone else here. So please stop the chest thumping.
It's undignified.

All that aside, Southwest Region Public Affairs was informed by me of this thread, I took steps to mitigate this...issue.  More than I can say for your actions on this subject.  You see, action begins where CAPTALK ends.  Many here post all sorts of things on all subjects and end it.  If this is a big issue...why did no one contact the Southwest region?  Much better to poke fun at it here and pontificate about how things should be...eh?

Maybe, instead of bringing this sort of thing up here over and over again, if, when it happened, we e-mailed to proper people things would occur.  Its worth a try.