Identifying Mission Staff positions

[Hawk200]

I'm a newly appointed ES officer for my unit (only three weeks!) and got asked a question (which of course, I don't know the answer to yet) about identifying mission staff at a site.

How do you folks out there do it? Do you wear ID tags (i'm talking like the little plastic holder with a snap clip) or does anybody use an armband? This is a horse of a different color to me, and I'm am completely in the dark. Is it really even necessary to identify the various positions?

Just wondering.. Thanks for any help.

[TankerT]

There are lots of ways.  Most common on missions I go to are the different areas are labled with signs posted on walls and doors.  (I.E "Air Operations"... etc...)

Hint... the Communications Unit Leader and Mission Radio Operators are probably the guys sitting by all the radios... 

[Hawk200]

There are lots of ways.  Most common on missions I go to are the different areas are labled with signs posted on walls and doors.  (I.E "Air Operations"... etc...)

Hint... the Communications Unit Leader and Mission Radio Operators are probably the guys sitting by all the radios... 

I imagine that's kind of a given. However, does the Incident Commander really need an ID badge, or an armband saying who he is?

[SJFedor]

Welcome to the party, I just got blessed with becoming the ES and ops officer myself.

I've seen it a bunch of different ways. PA Wing HQ has an ops room with different cubbys for different mission staff officers, I've seen some wear ID tags or armbands or hats with the position on it, and I've seen others not do anything except answer when someone goes "Who's the [insert staff position here]"

All depends on how well you know the people you work with, how big the mission is, etc.

Another hint to go with the CUL/MRO comment. The AOBD is the one holding the airplane keys, but doesn't look like he's gonna go flying. The PSC is buried behind a mountain of paperwork, the OSC is with the IC because he's also an IC3*, and the IC is wondering how he got talked into wasting his Saturday by sitting at the end of a table and watching everyone else have fun.

[TankerT]

I imagine that's kind of a given. However, does the Incident Commander really need an ID badge, or an armband saying who he is?

No.  There is normally a designated office labled "IC" or "Command Post" or something similar.  Plus, many missions have a board up that lists the key staff.

[ELTHunter]

The IC is the guy in his undershorts, sitting at his kitchen table at 0300

[TankerT]

The IC is the guy in his undershorts, sitting at his kitchen table at 0300

Actually, for most of our missions (I.E. 1am phone calls for an ELT in some guy's garage) this is pretty much spot on.

[DNall]

The IC is the guy in his undershorts, sitting at his kitchen table at 0300

Actually, for most of our missions (I.E. 1am phone calls for an ELT in some guy's garage) this is pretty much spot on.

Yup.

I'd prefer NOT to have Vests or clip on IDs or armbands, all that just looks stupid, and frankly anyone who doesn't know what position you're in doesn't need to be disturbing you. Members go to check-in & are then told where to go till the branch director can come touch base with them, the rest of the staff should be posted & should be part of their brief. Non-members (media) belong to the PIO & he should be heading them off before they have a chance to get into the ops area, much less bugging the staff.

The designated areas work well if they've been thought thru in the basis of needs for a large mission & not your typical ELT gig.

By the way, the upcoming IC badge should help you out with this one, and there's proposals to cover AOBD & GBD, to integrate PSC in the personnel badge & specialty track, same w/ PIO/PA, Comm, etc I don't know what's going to stick, but the IC badge looks like it's pretty set.

[TankerT]

I don't think the new badges don't help here.  They just indicate a person's qualification. They don't indicate the duty of the person at the mission.

[DNall]

How many IC qual'd people are generally walking around your missin bases? I live in a rather large wing here (size & membership) & we don't have all that many ICs, and only a very small handful of them are active in that role (or ES at all for that matter).

As I said, you don't for the most part want the public/media knowing who's who. You do want to ID quals on the chest of people standing around, just like you do now w/ observer wings on a GTL & welcome to a new job buddy. Yeah I know the badges are determinative of who hold what postion, but it's impirical evidence that's generally going to point you in the right direction. You shouldn't need much more than that as a member signed into that mission.

[Eclipse]

Cip-on badges, arm bands, and vests are pretty standard in any IC, no matter the agency - we use the badges, theyy work well.

If you look like the "big boys", its easier to work with them, one reason we have been tweking CAP ICS to match "real" ICS.

You might want to look into whether there are standard colors, etc.

[TankerT]

How many IC qual'd people are generally walking around your missin bases? I live in a rather large wing here (size & membership) & we don't have all that many ICs, and only a very small handful of them are active in that role (or ES at all for that matter).

Last mission I was at.  3 or 4.

[SJFedor]

By the way, the upcoming IC badge should help you out with this one, and there's proposals to cover AOBD & GBD, to integrate PSC in the personnel badge & specialty track, same w/ PIO/PA, Comm, etc I don't know what's going to stick, but the IC badge looks like it's pretty set.

GBD's do have a badge already. AOBD's are more often then not already mission observer's or pilots, though they don't need to be current, and typically have their wings on.

It's all more bling.

And I shall have it all.

[Eclipse]

How many IC qual'd people are generally walking around your missin bases? I live in a rather large wing here (size & membership) & we don't have all that many ICs, and only a very small handful of them are active in that role (or ES at all for that matter).

Last mission I was at.  3 or 4.

By "IC qual'd" I assume you are talking about legitimate mission base personnel, in which case, on any mid-large-scale excercise you'll see

IC
OPS
PSC
AOBD
GBD
FIN
Logistics
Transport
CUL
Safety
Several MSA's

And bear in mind these are just the directors - they will all likey have assistants, and if you drill further to Staging managers and similiar, that's even more.

[Eclipse]

By the way, the upcoming IC badge should help you out with this one, and there's proposals to cover AOBD & GBD, to integrate PSC in the personnel badge & specialty track, same w/ PIO/PA, Comm, etc I don't know what's going to stick, but the IC badge looks like it's pretty set.

I disagree, and this is part of our problem.

Just because you are >a< GBD, IC, etc., doesn't mean you are >THE< GBD, IC, etc., that day.

However some members don't understand this, and waltz into ICPs with advanced grade, or some base staff qualification and think they can take over.

There's only one IC, and the blinig on his uniform may not correspond to the position.

[RiverAux]

I'd prefer NOT to have Vests or clip on IDs or armbands, all that just looks stupid, and frankly anyone who doesn't know what position you're in doesn't need to be disturbing you.

Most of the ICS/NIMS training I have gone through recommends that people wear position identification as much as practical.  This is probably more critical when the CAP mission staff is co-located with other incident operations which probably isn't often.  Of course that will be when the fact that CAP operates with its own mini-ICS command structure could cause difficulties. 

[DNall]

By the way, the upcoming IC badge should help you out with this one, and there's proposals to cover AOBD & GBD, to integrate PSC in the personnel badge & specialty track, same w/ PIO/PA, Comm, etc I don't know what's going to stick, but the IC badge looks like it's pretty set.

I disagree, and this is part of our problem.

Just because you are >a< GBD, IC, etc., doesn't mean you are >THE< GBD, IC, etc., that day.

However some members don't understand this, and waltz into ICPs with advanced grade, or some base staff qualification and think they can take over.

There's only one IC, and the blinig on his uniform may not correspond to the position.

I believe you were in Ms for Katrina? The after action report I read talked about a situation I've seen a hundred times (well 50 anyway), in which there is an IC & a bunch of people showing up at base but there's no logistics or PSC or GBD or much else. People tend to show up for the sexy jobs or to be in charge & don't much like the in-between. ALL but one of the times I've flown actual missions as an observer were when I deployed at a GTL/GTM & the wings seen on my uniform got me moved to an aircrew.

If you look at the AF, they have badges for each career field, and those fields all contain both the domestic & the operational aspects of the field. Now think if we applied that to CAP. If you had an embroidered version of a senior admin or personnel badge & that meant you were also qual'd as a PSC. I could then snag that GTM & put them in a hole I desperately need filled. Now, I know technology is supposed to solve this for us, but it hasn't really yet & even when it does I'd like to have a backup in that fast paced situation.

Where you'll find armbands/vests/etc is when a bunch of people in the same field (same badge) are working an ops center in varrious command positions. The other situation is a joint ops command center where there are a hundred agencies & you need to be able to tell in some standardized what who worls for whom & what their job is. Right now, CAP is not IC'ing for multi-agency ops. We're not even remotely NIMS qual'd to serve in junior positions on those staffs. I understand we're going to be working toward changing that, and there is an appropriate time & place for the garb you're talking about here, but it's not really necessary on a REDCAP. I'm not saying it's evil, just not neccessary for aything we'll be running.

If I were you, I'd have my staff board in the briefing room, use a digital cam to snap a pic of each critical staff member, print 3x5 on reg paper & tape it up next to their name. Send people from sign in to that room, where they will do an equipment check while waiting for the appropriate director to come in & brief them on the situation, including staff, & tell them when they might expect tasking orders.

[RiverAux]

If the IC is picking his mission staff based on who shows up at the base that day, he needs to be fired.  That should have been worked out the night before.  He also shouldn't need to be hunting around that morning trying to find someone to fill a job based on a badge they're wearing on their BDUs (and since many won't be wearing the badge they're qualified for anyway, that wouldn't be a good search strategy). 

[arajca]

If the IC is picking his mission staff based on who shows up at the base that day, he needs to be fired.  That should have been worked out the night before. 

You're assuming the IC knows who is going to be showing up the night before. If a mission gets called, the IC will be filling positions based on who shows up and their qualifications. As the incident passes into the second operational period, staff should be assigned ahead of time, again, if you know who is going to show up.

He also shouldn't need to be hunting around that morning trying to find someone to fill a job based on a badge they're wearing on their BDUs (and since many won't be wearing the badge they're qualified for anyway, that wouldn't be a good search strategy). 

No arguement here.

At incident bases and camps, the staff usually wears something to identify what their function is. Vests, clip on badges, arm bands, hats, whatever. The badge, vest, whatever, also helps provide easy access control. The folks with the metal on their chests and hogleg on their hips really like being able to determine at a glance if the clown hanging around the outside the comm room is supposed to be there or not.

[RiverAux]

Re: Identifying Mission Staff positions
« Reply #18 on: Yesterday at 10:20:54 PM »   

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Quote from: RiverAux on Yesterday at 09:20:05 PM
If the IC is picking his mission staff based on who shows up at the base that day, he needs to be fired.  That should have been worked out the night before. 
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You're assuming the IC knows who is going to be showing up the night before. If a mission gets called, the IC will be filling positions based on who shows up and their qualifications. As the incident passes into the second operational period, staff should be assigned ahead of time, again, if you know who is going to show up.

It is the ICs job to round up mission staff as soon as he is alerted.  He should be calling folks right after getting off with AFRCC.  If has been sitting on his butt watching tv instead of doing this, in expectations that he will have enough randomly qualified people show up the next day, he needs to be fired.   The IC should already know who is qualified for various staff positions and they should be in his speed dial.  The same goes for the pilot and his aircrew and the GT Leader and his team.

All the essentiall staffing should be known before anyone shows up at base.  Sure, invite un-assigned people to show up just in case there is a need for them, but they're the only ones who shouldn't know what they're doing when the mission opens. 

[ELTHunter]

The IC should be busy running the mission, not going through his call list to ID and locate mission personnel.  As an ES Officer, I consider it my job to help the IC's get the resources they need, whether they be manpower or equipment.  When I get a mission handed down from Wing, I call the IC's until I get one who can run the mission.  Then I alert the Air Ops guy so he can start getting crews, and the squadron commanders so they can stand up there ground teams.  From there, the IC tells us what he needs.  Usually, the IC's find thier own replacements, but the should know I'm always there to help them find what they need.

[DNall]

It is the ICs job to round up mission staff as soon as he is alerted.  He should be calling folks right after getting off with AFRCC.  If has been sitting on his butt watching tv instead of doing this, in expectations that he will have enough randomly qualified people show up the next day, he needs to be fired.   The IC should already know who is qualified for various staff positions and they should be in his speed dial.  The same goes for the pilot and his aircrew and the GT Leader and his team.

All the essentiall staffing should be known before anyone shows up at base.  Sure, invite un-assigned people to show up just in case there is a need for them, but they're the only ones who shouldn't know what they're doing when the mission opens. 

What next day? You get the call & have teams at base in 60 minutes & in the field in 90. The IC gets a call from the alerting officer, plots the hits/LKP, dertermines what teams are needed for an initial search, calls people till he has those teams on the way to base, then gets changed & goes to the base himself. If 12 hours later it looks like this is going to be an ongoing major search, then the NOC & Wg call people to take over, who may or may not show up.

Katrina was no small deal & plenty of people all over the country were ready to go, but the NOC & the mission base were not on the same page & no one was ever alerted to fill certain critical positions (logistics was mentioned among others). Most normal REDCAPs are decent sized operations, but like all of CAP they tend to always be shorthanded & inconsistently staffed. It is VERY normal that you pick people up off GTs/Aricrews to serve in staff positions (how many AOBDs showed up to fly but didn't have a crew). It's even more practical when you want to find assistants or staff for those critical positions. Personally, if I saw my PSC was overwhelmed & I saw someone waiting to go out on a GT wearing a personnel badge, and I knew that tech included MSA & the senior/master rating included PSC, then I'd be greatful to have that info so I could reassign them to help my people.

I don't know where you guys have been runnning missions out of, but being in uniform has always been enough for any LE I've ever seen. If oyu have a cop working your door to keep CAP members out that aren't lead staff positions, there's something seriously wrong there.

[ZigZag911]

I'd prefer NOT to have Vests or clip on IDs or armbands, all that just looks stupid, and frankly anyone who doesn't know what position you're in doesn't need to be disturbing you.

Most of the ICS/NIMS training I have gone through recommends that people wear position identification as much as practical.  This is probably more critical when the CAP mission staff is co-located with other incident operations which probably isn't often.  Of course that will be when the fact that CAP operates with its own mini-ICS command structure could cause difficulties. 

Actually, there is a position that covers that situation, Agency Liaison (1,2,or3, just like IC)....this officer is in overall command of CAP personnel/assets but clearly reports to the Incident Commander from another agency (which is likely to be state OEM, or maybe police or fire)

[ZigZag911]

If the IC is picking his mission staff based on who shows up at the base that day, he needs to be fired.  That should have been worked out the night before.  He also shouldn't need to be hunting around that morning trying to find someone to fill a job based on a badge they're wearing on their BDUs (and since many won't be wearing the badge they're qualified for anyway, that wouldn't be a good search strategy). 

True for a SAREX....what about an actual (non-ELT) aircraft distress mission? 

[RiverAux]

It should be the same for actual missions too depending on the size of the mission.  If an IC gets alerted for a missing aircraft mission and knows it will be an all-hands on-deck operation, they (or someone else they designate) should be finding qualified mission staff people to fill the critical positions as soon as possible.

Sure, depending on how much daylight you have in front of you after getting the call, there will be a period where the priority is to get planes up and moving towards the search area, but pretty quickly after that the IC's priority should be making sure they have adequate help to run the mission. 

And, yes a certain amount of pick-up will be played in terms of finding assistants and less critical staff positions from those who show up.  I've got no problems with that.  But, at a minimum, the IC should know who his Ops, Air Ops, Ground Ops, and Comm people are before he walks in the door of the base.

As to badges, since a fair number of CAP people wear the golf shirts, many without any names on them, I do think it is a good idea to wear the position badges, especialy if you're gathering people together from all over who probably don't know each other very well.  If it is a tight-knit staff that works together all the time, its not critical, but not a big inconvenience either.   

[arajca]

There is a problem with the same group running all the missions all the time. You end up with them being burned out and, since only those members are called, no one else trains because they will not get called, so you have no depth from which to draw from.

In a paid, career organization, this problem is somewhat mitigated, but in a volunteer org, it's huge.

It's human nature to want familiar faces and people you know when working in a high stress environment, but the cost of that comfort is alienating the rest of the members. We've seen the same thing happen with aircrews and ground teams. For example:
IC knows aircrew xyz is good and relies on them as his 'alert' crew and never calls anyone else because he knows xyz will get the job done. One day xyz is not available and he is scrabbling trying to come up with a pilot he can trust, only to find - in his experience - there aren't any because he never called anyone else. Before you start in one the plethora of aircrews available, remember, CAP has an extremely limited number of qualified (according to CAP) IC's (CO only has 3 or 4 out of 1500 members) and they tend to call out their 'reliable' crews and not open the mission to the general membership until the second or third day - which the missions seldom go to.

[RiverAux]

At all levels CAP should be doing its best to train and use as many different people as possible and should avoid the good old boy syndrome when picking staff or crews.  However, you always have to balance that goal with the fact that in day to day life some people can be counted on to be available at the drop of a hat while others have other demands on their time and may or may not be able to help.  How much time should be spent alerting the "old reliables" vs searching out new blood to help is always tricky. 

[Eclipse]

I believe you were in Ms for Katrina? The after action report I read talked about a situation I've seen a hundred times (well 50 anyway), in which there is an IC & a bunch of people showing up at base but there's no logistics or PSC or GBD or much else. People tend to show up for the sexy jobs or to be in charge & don't much like the in-between. ALL but one of the times I've flown actual missions as an observer were when I deployed at a GTL/GTM & the wings seen on my uniform got me moved to an aircrew.

Wearing the badge doesn't mean you are qual'ed, it only means you earned it at some point in your career.  Its the 101's that say who is qual'ed.

[TankerT]

Wearing the badge doesn't mean you are qual'ed, it only means you earned it at some point in your career.  Its the 101's that say who is qual'ed.

Exactly...

It's kinda like the tatoo that says you love Margaret... even though she left you and you're now married to Janet... it's the marraige license that says your married...

/Not directed at Eclipse...
//Just saying...

[Pylon]

Wearing the badge doesn't mean you are qual'ed, it only means you earned it at some point in your career.  Its the 101's that say who is qual'ed.

Exactly...

It's kinda like the tatoo that says you love Margaret... even though she left you and you're now married to Janet... it's the marraige license that says your married...

/Not directed at Eclipse...
//Just saying...

Sounds like the voice of experience.