Cadet Grooming Standards

[EMT-83]

Okay, we got an unusual situation. We have a new cadet who is a model, and has long hair for this purpose. Not excessively long, but not within the standards established by 39-1. According to his parents, his particular hair style is in demand and is the "look" that keeps him working.

Apparently, this family is of limited means and really depends on the modeling income to make ends meet. The cadet shows real potential to grow within the cadet program, and will most likely be an asset to the squadron.

The potential for opening a can of worms is present at many levels. My read of 39-1 says a cadet can wear BBDUs and not meet the grooming standard. There's a concern that other cadets will jump on the bandwagon, and in short order, we'll have a motley crew of long-haired cadets.

Anyone ever deal with this before and have any suggestions?

[davidsinn]

1. All cadet members must meet the grooming standards prescribed for AF-style uniforms in Attachment 2 of CAPM 39-1 whenever wearing a CAP Uniform, including CAP Distinctive Uniforms as well as USAF-style Uniforms. Exceptions may be made at the discretion of the National Commander as necessary to comply with the law. (See link above for additional details)

He must meet grooming. If the family is that poor that he must work to support them then perhaps CAP is not for him?

[viperred396]

My read of 39-1 says a cadet can wear BBDUs and not meet the grooming standard.

Can you say where in 39-1 it says this because i couldn't find it.   Also you have to remember that you are representing all of CAP not just your squadron, so my question is does it look unprofessional and/or not in the proper image of CAP when he is in BDU's with his hair down?

[EMT-83]

In the section where the photos of the BBDU are shown, there's a line about grooming standards. I'm on my phone right now and don't have access.

[davidsinn]

In the section where the photos of the BBDU are shown, there's a line about grooming standards. I'm on my phone right now and don't have access.

See my post above. A cadet must meet standards. Period.

[capn_shad]

See General Courter's ICL dated 15 July 2008:

http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/2008_07_15_Cadet_Grooming_Standards.pdf

1. All cadet members must meet the grooming standards prescribed for AF-style uniforms in Attachment 2 of CAPM 39-1 whenever wearing a CAP Uniform, including CAP Distinctive Uniforms as well as USAF-style Uniforms. Exceptions may be made at the discretion of the National Commander as necessary to comply with the law.
2. When the National Board and National Executive Committee expanded uniform choices available to cadets to include uniforms previously worn only by senior members, the intention was to allow for those cadets not meeting the weight standards to have an authorized CAP uniform to wear. It was not changed to allow cadets to choose whether or not they would meet the grooming standards.
3. This clarification will be included in the next revision of CAPM 39-1.

[MSgt Van]

MEMORANDUM FOR CAP UNIT COMMANDERS (DISTRIBUTE WIDELY)
FROM: CAP/CC
SUBJECT: Clarification of CAPM 39-1, Cadet Grooming Standards
1. All cadet members must meet the grooming standards prescribed for AF-style uniforms in Attachment 2 of CAPM 39-1 whenever wearing a CAP Uniform, including CAP Distinctive Uniforms as well as USAF-style Uniforms.


If a cadet refuses to comply with the grooming standards, they'll only serve as a bad example.
Remove them.

[Майор Хаткевич]

And when the "in style" look will be pink Mohawks, will we let him do it as well? If he's not willing to follow the regs, and be just like any other cadet, then CAP isn't for him. BSA are hiring though.

[C/Martin]

Perhaps pass him off as a girl and put his wairin a bun?

[RobertAmphibian]

If it can't be fixed with some gel or hairspray...there's no cure. And plenty of male models have short hair these days anyway.

[Al Sayre]

You could always send a letter up the chain explaining the circumstances and ask for a waiver.  Stop laughing, you'll never know if you don't ask...

[MSgt Van]

"Why can he have a waiver, and my child can't? It's not fair."
I can hear the parents whining already. Geesh.
Not to mention jerks like me asking why that cadet's hair is too long... 

[Al Sayre]

"When C/Amn Snuffy gets a job to support your family based on his looks we can see about a waiver for him.  By the way I hear they are having a casting call for Head and Shoulders shampoo, Clearasil, and Arid Extra Dry next week..."

[PA Guy]

Had this identical situation a few yrs ago. The sqdn CC turned a blind eye to the hair then the cadet started attending activities outside the sqdn. The cadet was sent home and it turned into a real mess. The cadet and his parents were really upset and a complaint was filed that went to the Wing CC. The cadet/parents were told he must adhere to CAP grooming standards. Life is full of choices, not all of them are pleasent. The ICL says a waiver may be granted to comply with law. I don't think this meets the criteria.

[DBlair]

I wonder if the hairstyle could be brought within regs somehow using hairspray, gel, or some other hair product. I remember hearing of a Cadet who had long hair and somehow did this. Eventually, from what I heard, he just gave in and got a short haircut because it was too much work.

[EMT-83]

I had missed the ICL, which spells things out pretty clearly. Obviously, this has come up before.

Perhaps we'll show it to the parents, so they know how NHQ feels about the subject, and leave the ball in their court on how they will comply. Like PA Guy said, life is full of choices.

Thanks for the input. Other than the "pass him off as a girl" nonsense, this was very helpful.

[AirAux]

So we won't give a waiver to a cadet that is earning money to support his parents, but we will give a waiver to cadet to a wear a beard because of his religion??  Something doesn't fit in this scenario..  What if his religion requires him to respect, honor and obey his parents and he does that by helping support them..  Political correctness and let the parents lose their home to foreclosure.. Bravo..   

[Ned]

So we won't give a waiver to a cadet that is earning money to support his parents, but we will give a waiver to cadet to a wear a beard because of his religion??  Something doesn't fit in this scenario..  What if his religion requires him to respect, honor and obey his parents and he does that by helping support them..  Political correctness and let the parents lose their home to foreclosure.. Bravo..   

Maybe, just maybe, the author who drafted the ICL had just this sort of "barracks lawyering" in mind.

"Umm, yeah, about that.  My official religion is the Church of Ned and it says that I don't have to obey any rules that I don't like.  Really, I can show you our Official Credo just as soon as I get done writing it."

Seriously, anyone who is in forclosure because of their CAP involvement should probably be concentrating on other things.

I, for one, thought the ICL was particularly well written.     It is important to provide commanders with "bright line rules" whenever possible to make their jobs easier and to provide consistency to our outstanding cadet program.

And as someone else pointed out, the ICL was put in place because of this specific issue which had already come up a few times.  For over 50 years there was absolutely no question that cadets had to conform to our grooming standards.  It was only after we attempted to provide a benefit to large cadets over 18 by offering them additional uniform choices besides the blazer uniform that this problem arose.  And it was simply a case of a drafting error in the first place that appeared to allow cadets in corporates to be exempt from grooming standards.

We fixed the problem and returned to the status quo ante that had served us well for half a century.

Ned Lee
Acting National Cadet Advisor

[Fubar]

My official religion is the Church of Ned and it says that I don't have to obey any rules that I don't like.

Where do I sign up? 

[Eclipse]

So we won't give a waiver to a cadet that is earning money to support his parents, but we will give a waiver to cadet to a wear a beard because of his religion??  Something doesn't fit in this scenario..  What if his religion requires him to respect, honor and obey his parents and he does that by helping support them..  Political correctness and let the parents lose their home to foreclosure.. Bravo..   

Don't hurt yourself....

[AirAux]

Sounds like those dreadlocks might be a problem for our new "Diversity" program when it rolls out, eh??

[addo1]

This either sounds like or IS one of the cadets I had to deal with at an Airman Leadership School I commanded a few months ago... Was an interesting scenario indeed...

[Ned]

My official religion is the Church of Ned and it says that I don't have to obey any rules that I don't like.

Where do I sign up? 

I have you down as an Acolyte Second Class.  Tithing form is in the mail.  Please return promptly with your account numbers for EFT.

[DBlair]

My official religion is the Church of Ned and it says that I don't have to obey any rules that I don't like.

Where do I sign up? 

I have you down as an Acolyte Second Class.  Tithing form is in the mail.  Please return promptly with your account numbers for EFT.

The funny/sad thing is how many small churches have actually started like this 'Church of Ned' idea and then turn out to be successful- there are even websites that help you actually make it legal. I remember a college friend of mine researched it all out because he had aspirations to (in jest) start his own church and name himself Pope. lol

[cap235629]

let's get off this religious drift please

[DBlair]

Yea, back on topic... I'm not sure how long this Cadet's hair may be, but I wonder if there is a way to somehow get it within regs using hair products. Has anyone seen creative ways to get around getting a haircut?

[RobertAmphibian]

Honestly depends on how long the hair is. If for example, the hair is touching the ears slightly, it's going to be nearly impossible to correct that without cutting it.

But, a cadet at my squadron back in the day somehow got his hair to a)comply with bulk standards b)comply with length standards and c)look kind of silly. I saw him outside of CAP activities a couple times and didn't realize how much hair he honestly had. From what I could tell, this was achieved with liberal amounts of mousse.

[Hawk200]

Yea, back on topic... I'm not sure how long this Cadet's hair may be, but I wonder if there is a way to somehow get it within regs using hair products. Has anyone seen creative ways to get around getting a haircut?

Seen a few, and you can tell that it's just simply a way around getting a haircut.

If the kid's helping his family out financially, CAP is not gonna help. There's a lot you can get cheap or free, but there are still things that must be purchased. Some units even help disadvantage financially.

However, I can see it blowing up if this individual gets help, but doesn't comply with grooming standards. There are stereotypes concerning models getting whatever they want, this is just going to further it.

Some may call it whining, but the first parent that notes the difference, and brings atttention to it would be absolutely right. I'd believe that this could cost more in cadet bodies than it would gain.

[DBlair]

When thinking about this Cadet's situation, I keep wondering to myself if he is helping to support his family in that he is helping the family earn extra family spending money, or is it that he helping to keep the family financially above water and helping them survive?

If he is helping them survive, then that is a sign of serious financial difficulty and in my opinion, I don't think CAP should be their priority at this point. As we all know, CAP isn't cheap and it adds up fast. In they are trying to survive, then they need to focus on the reality of the situation and surviving through this difficult time.

That being said, I have a feeling this is for extra money as modeling isn't regular money and in the case of child/teen male modeling, it isn't nearly as much money as most people think.

[Al Sayre]

It may also be that the parents belive that CAP will provide the cadet with a little grounding in reality to go with his potential career.  Based on what we see in the news about the behavior of child stars, this could be a very good thing for him.  "C/Amn Adonis, I don't care if you are the next American Idol, it's your turn to clean the crapper"...

[DBlair]

LOL Good point.

[Cecil DP]

I'm sure that there are wigs, toupee's, etc that can be worn over his objectionable hair style.

[vmstan]

I've got a real quick fix to this problem.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I've got a real quick fix to this problem.

[Encampment Staff RST]

*This picture MIGHT be hazing, the cadet looks sad to see his hair go*

Bwahaha

[a2capt]

More like 'grazing' ..

OTOH, suppose this potential cadet fits well within the program, takes it to it's fullest and becomes even more viable to provide support backwards? Sure, it may be a few years. But what if they are the first ones to ever go that far?

Of course, the intent of the regulation is to provide a professional appearance, too- not just off the ears and what not.. That can be a challenge.

Or, as one says, the whole thing could be a rouse. But the original poster knows more than anyone else.

[vmstan]

I've got a real quick fix to this problem.

[Encampment Staff RST]

*This picture MIGHT be hazing, the cadet looks sad to see his hair go*

Bwahaha

It was just a random image I pulled off Google.

[Eclipse]

OTOH, suppose this potential cadet fits well within the program, takes it to it's fullest and becomes even more viable to provide support backwards? Sure, it may be a few years. But what if they are the first ones to ever go that far?

Any potential member, senior or cadet, walking in the door asking for a waiver of a basic thing like the appearance standards is likely unclear regarding what CAP is and how and why it works.

I see this all the time - the "transfer of angst" from a member to a commander - some 1% situation which can be fixed easily by the
member becomes this huge deal because we live in a world where everyone gets an exception.  It's unfair to the commander and should not be tolerated.  What commanders need to realize is one of the reasons we have regulations is to end these conversations quickly and directly.  That doesn't mean being insulting or unsympathetic, but its possible to be direct and professional, and perhaps even suggest they address it directly with NHQ themselves.  Bottom line is that it does not become the commander's problem or crusade.

This is a black and white situation which is fixed very simply - the young man either adjusts his appearance or finds some other outlet
for his free time and volunteer service.  It doesn't matter how he gets in reg, or why he isn't.

This has nothing to do with religion and making the comparison is insulting to all, same goes for the diversity comments.

[RADIOMAN015]

Well CAP growth on cadet membership will always be hampered due to the fixation on military uniforms and hair styles  -- that's the way it is and that isn't going to change. :angel:

Contrasting this to the Boy Scouts, with various Explorer type programs that don't have these type of restrictions, one sees signficiant participation and much more community support.  The programs can also more narrowly concentrate on what the youth want.

Frankly I would think that CAP should look at having some sort of Cadet Aerospace member status that would allow teenagers to just participate in the aerospace aspects of the program with a much simpler uniform (current senior AE type uniform, golf shirt) to include orientation flights in CAP aircraft, robotics, computers, radio comms etc.  as well as allow visits to aerospace museums etc.....

One doesn't mention in the post what the potential cadet's primary interest is in joining the program.   If it's military related, than quite frankly get a haircut and wear the AF military style uniform with pride.  HOWEVER, if it is primarily the aerospace side, why not have a non military option available for cadets/teenagers that we have available for adults

RM   

[RiverAux]

Super idea.  Now we'll have cadet fat and (peach) fuzzies...

[PA Guy]

The cadet program is not meant to be all things to all people.  It is a leadership program based on the military model that incorporates the three missions of CAP.  Having different cadet programs for those interested just in AE, ES or the current cadet program would be a disaster.  We have enough trouble running the cadet program we have now. 

[DBlair]

If his hairstyle ultimately remains a deciding issue, perhaps he should consider joining the Boy Scouts. While different from the CAP Cadet Program, it is still a great program.


...and I don't mean that in any sarcastic CAP vs BSA rivalry sort of way as I'm an Eagle Scout and currently serve as a Commissioner for the BSA.

[tsrup]

Well CAP growth on cadet membership will always be hampered due to the fixation on military uniforms and hair styles  -- that's the way it is and that isn't going to change. :angel:

Contrasting this to the Boy Scouts, with various Explorer type programs that don't have these type of restrictions, one sees signficiant participation and much more community support.  The programs can also more narrowly concentrate on what the youth want.

Frankly I would think that CAP should look at having some sort of Cadet Aerospace member status that would allow teenagers to just participate in the aerospace aspects of the program with a much simpler uniform (current senior AE type uniform, golf shirt) to include orientation flights in CAP aircraft, robotics, computers, radio comms etc.  as well as allow visits to aerospace museums etc.....

One doesn't mention in the post what the potential cadet's primary interest is in joining the program.   If it's military related, than quite frankly get a haircut and wear the AF military style uniform with pride.  HOWEVER, if it is primarily the aerospace side, why not have a non military option available for cadets/teenagers that we have available for adults

RM

It's called Young Eagles, and we get it, you don't like the military side of CAP.

[RADIOMAN015]

Well CAP growth on cadet membership will always be hampered due to the fixation on military uniforms and hair styles  -- that's the way it is and that isn't going to change. :angel:

Frankly I would think that CAP should look at having some sort of Cadet Aerospace member status that would allow teenagers to just participate in the aerospace aspects of the program with a much simpler uniform (current senior AE type uniform, golf shirt) to include orientation flights in CAP aircraft, robotics, computers, radio comms etc.  as well as allow visits to aerospace museums etc.....

One doesn't mention in the post what the potential cadet's primary interest is in joining the program.   If it's military related, than quite frankly get a haircut and wear the AF military style uniform with pride.  HOWEVER, if it is primarily the aerospace side, why not have a non military option available for cadets/teenagers that we have available for adults

RM

It's called Young Eagles, and we get it, you don't like the military side of CAP.

I not against the Cadet Program, nor am I against teenagers wearing AF style CAP uniforms.  :angel:

The Young Eagles program does look pretty interesting, since it deals with a concentrated aerospace type training.  Looking at the EAA "Air Academy" age specific course outline,  http://www.youngeagles.org/programs/airacademy/classoverview.asp it looks to me like this could very easily be done by Civil Air Patrol, at much less cost than an inhouse stay at that facility.  Perhaps the newly formed Aerospace Education flights could meet on a different evening and or weekend day than the typical CAP squadron type meetings.   Of course CAP senior members involved in these flight activities would be required to wear a golf type shirt , no military blues or battle dress uniforms :angel:

Again, I think we need to look at our overall program objectives, external Aerospace education is one of those objectives.  If some kid doesn't want to cut his hair or wear a military type uniform but has a strong interest in aerospace, perhaps it may be worth CAP's efforts to offer an after school or off site (normal CAP squadron facilities)  intensive activities that caters to this specific interest.  There's always the possibility that the aerospace cadet may want to transition into the regular CAP cadet program.
RM

[Eclipse]

Again, I think we need to look at our overall program objectives, external Aerospace education is one of those objectives.  If some kid doesn't want to cut his hair or wear a military type uniform but has a strong interest in aerospace, perhaps it may be worth CAP's efforts to offer an after school or off site (normal CAP squadron facilities)  intensive activities that caters to this specific interest.  There's always the possibility that the aerospace cadet may want to transition into the regular CAP cadet program.

Or perhaps we could stay the course that has served us well for 65+ years and stop trying to be all things to all people.

1 kids shows up with some excuse about being a model and the next thing you know we're changing the entire program because he can't get a haircut.

[tsrup]

Again, I think we need to look at our overall program objectives, external Aerospace education is one of those objectives. 

One of 3 remember.

If we create a unit that operates under Civil Air Patrol, they would be bound by the THREE Missions of CADET PROGRAMS, EMERGENCY SERVICES, and AEROSPACE EDUCATION.

Wearing a Uniform is part of Cadet Programs.

If a cadet does not want to participate in all three missions there are other organizations that he/she can join.  Young Eagles included.

They want just a Cadet Program style atmosphere?  JROTC,
They want emergency Services?  Volunteer at the local fire department or SAR, usually there is an explorer program for High School kids.
They want just Aerospace?  Go for EAA Young Eagles.
There's also the BSA, Venture Crew, and other programs each with their own benefits and goals.

CAP is it's own organization with AF style uniforms as part of it. 
If you don't like it, then take your ball elsewhere, there are plenty of places to take it.

[RADIOMAN015]

[CAP is it's own organization with AF style uniforms as part of it. 
If you don't like it, then take your ball elsewhere, there are plenty of places to take it.

Again another member showing his maturity level with personal attacks.  I ain't quiting, I like CAP, I like the CAP cadet program, I support the CAP cadet program.   I'm a former cadet Billy Mitchell Award guy from many years ago!!!   There's many fine cadets in the program that have gone on to do very good things.  It's fine for CAP CADETS to wear the AF style CAP uniform :clap: :clap: :clap:

I'm just throwing out a possible alternative to booster one portion of our program that is somewhat lagging and might work, BUT it also might not work .     
RM   

 

[tsrup]

[CAP is it's own organization with AF style uniforms as part of it. 
If you don't like it, then take your ball elsewhere, there are plenty of places to take it.

Again another member showing his maturity level with personal attacks.  I ain't quiting, I like CAP, I like the CAP cadet program, I support the CAP cadet program.   I'm a former cadet Billy Mitchell Award guy from many years ago!!!   There's many fine cadets in the program that have gone on to do very good things.  It's fine for CAP CADETS to wear the AF style CAP uniform :clap: :clap: :clap:

I'm just throwing out a possible alternative to booster one portion of our program that is somewhat lagging and might work, BUT it also might not work .     
RM   

I 'spose thats why English professors don't like it when someone writes in the 2nd person. 

the "you" wasn't directed at you or anyone else on the board.

[a2capt]

I didn't even see the proposed personal attack in there at all, I guess I read that 2nd person in the context intended. Had me confused there..

[vmstan]

I fail to see the logic behind cadets in AF uniforms, and senior members not, even if you're looking at it strictly from the cadet programs perspective (of which there are still two other missions) -- if you look at other cadet progams, like Navy Sea Cadets, their adult members wear Naval uniforms -- I'm sure if you ran down other similar Cadet programs you'd find the adult members in the same uniforms. By having senior members there, in proper USAF styled uniforms, it should help set an example for the cadets.

Add on top of that Congressionally mandated missions of ES and AE, both for senior members and cadets, along with a long history and tradition of wearing military styled uniforms -- and the fact that we are legally (sometimes) the auxiliary of the Air Force -- and again, I fail to see the logic behind senior members not being in AF uniforms.

I get so tired of coming in here and seeing some members rail against everything our uniforms stand for. How some members fail to see the history and pride that other members take in their uniforms be they AF, BDU, BBDU, flight suit, or even polo/gray. When I put mine on, I am proud of what other Civil Air Patrol members have done in it for almost 70 years and what the Air Force does in it. (A generic other people not directed at anyone)

When the USAF asks us to get out of them, we should get out of them. Until then, if youdon't want to wear it, don't. (A generic you not directed at anyone.)

[xXDrag_DollXx]

I'm new here. Hi. But I saw this forum but it just really leaves me confused. For the grooming standards, I have about shoulder length hair and I'm a girl. Why is it so strict for the hair to be one certain way? For what I think, especially in encampment, you don't really worry if your hair is getting split ends and what not. For guys also. Who really cares if they have a goatee? If a guy doesn't shave, what is he going to do about it? If someone can kinda explain that to me. That would be great.

[DakRadz]

The Air Force feels that being shaved and having certain haircuts lends to a professional image, as do the other services.
As cadets, we agree to comply with USAF grooming standards because we are wearing a USAF-style uniform with distinctive CAP markings. SM in USAF style uniforms comply with this as well. Also, it's required per the CAP regs.

I'm sure the others here would LOVE to fill you in, so I'll leave my explanation simple. Too frustrating to explain this...

[Майор Хаткевич]

I'm new here. Hi. But I saw this forum but it just really leaves me confused. For the grooming standards, I have about shoulder length hair and I'm a girl. Why is it so strict for the hair to be one certain way? For what I think, especially in encampment, you don't really worry if your hair is getting split ends and what not. For guys also. Who really cares if they have a goatee? If a guy doesn't shave, what is he going to do about it? If someone can kinda explain that to me. That would be great.

As mentioned, it's about presenting a professional image.

For girls, hair can be long, but needs to be manageable in uniform. For boys, short hair cuts are the way to go, and at 12-20 most people won't have decent facial hair anyway. I'm in the 20 year old group, and while I'm not active, I still shave, because otherwise I look like a bum.

[HGjunkie]

I'm new here. Hi. But I saw this forum but it just really leaves me confused. For the grooming standards, I have about shoulder length hair and I'm a girl. Why is it so strict for the hair to be one certain way? For what I think, especially in encampment, you don't really worry if your hair is getting split ends and what not. For guys also. Who really cares if they have a goatee? If a guy doesn't shave, what is he going to do about it? If someone can kinda explain that to me. That would be great.

What's he gonna do about it? He's gonna shave. If he has so much facial hair that he grows a goatee during encampment, he needs to bring a razor and scrape his face off twice a day. And who will care if he has a Goatee? Pretty much his entire flight staff. It looks bad.

[Spaceman3750]

I have seen A LOT of goatees that are well-managed and look highly professional outside of CAP. But you still have to shave to keep them kempt. And they're still against CAP regs.

[Eclipse]

She's not even here anymore guys, that was a drive-by...

[Spaceman3750]

EDIT: Nevermind

[HGjunkie]

She's not even here anymore guys, that was a drive-by...

DANGIT!

[vmstan]

Don't feed the trolls boys.

[HGjunkie]

Don't feed the trolls boys.