Maintaining membership in another wing while living in another wing?

[mynetdude]

I understand there are exception to the rule. I am just fumbling around in regs and ideas just for the learning of it nothing more.

I understand that sometimes some wings will coordinate with other wings to take care of units that are much closer to the neighboring state because there are no other units several hours away (an isolated unit) but would be much closer to units in the neighboring state.

My question is, is it possible to be a member of a unit in another wing other than your own wing? I know it is possible in the above scenario, but I can't find it in R39-2 that states you must maintain membership in which the state you live in; so unless I am looking at the wrong regulation or missed a ICL whatnot.

[lordmonar]

How about a whole squadron that resides outside the borders of a wing!

NVWG has a squadron that is in Califonia.

[Eclipse]

My question is, is it possible to be a member of a unit in another wing other than your own wing?

Yes - but in that case "your wing" is the one in which you are a member, not where you live.

[JC004]

Huh?  Lots of people in this area are members of wings outside their states of residence.  The DEWG CC lives in MD for one...The Montana Wing CC lives in Maryland.  The PAWG DOK lives in Maryland.  Lots of people in my area are members of DEWG, having left PAWG.

People leave PAWG for other wings all the time.  Reference Col K's joke about the transfer form from NJWG or PAWG to DEWG at that NB meeting some time ago...

[jimmydeanno]

I live in Louisiana and I am a member of a squadron in NH 

[Eclipse]

Huh?  Lots of people in this area are members of wings outside their states of residence.  The DEWG CC lives in MD for one...The Montana Wing CC lives in Maryland.  The PAWG DOK lives in Maryland.  Lots of people in my area are members of DEWG, having left PAWG.

Yeah...um...those little suburbs you Northeaster's call "states" don't really count.  :-)

[ZigZag911]

Huh?  Lots of people in this area are members of wings outside their states of residence.  The DEWG CC lives in MD for one...The Montana Wing CC lives in Maryland.  The PAWG DOK lives in Maryland.  Lots of people in my area are members of DEWG, having left PAWG.

Yeah...um...those little suburbs you Northeaster's call "states" don't really count.  :-)

You mean the 13 ORIGINAL States of the Union? Are those the 'burbs' you're referring to?!?

[PHall]

Huh?  Lots of people in this area are members of wings outside their states of residence.  The DEWG CC lives in MD for one...The Montana Wing CC lives in Maryland.  The PAWG DOK lives in Maryland.  Lots of people in my area are members of DEWG, having left PAWG.

Yeah...um...those little suburbs you Northeaster's call "states" don't really count.  :-)

You mean the 13 ORIGINAL States of the Union? Are those the 'burbs' you're referring to?!?

We perfer to think of them as a first draft. You know, to be improved with a little editing!

[mynetdude]

So there is no regulation preventing me from being a member of say NVWG and living in say TX or FL? Etc?

IIRC I read somewhere in the regs that if you are NOT active or have moved away from your unit and no longer ATTEND that unit the unit is supposed to encourage you to find another unit closer to you and if you still do not transfer then your file goes into suspense and then your membership could be terminated??? It would not prevent you from renewing as it would not be for cause.

[mynetdude]

Seems I stirred up some hiccups about "burbs" and original states

[Eclipse]

We perfer to think of them as a first draft. You know, to be improved with a little editing!

Which would make Hawaii the "Final Version" - I could live with that.

[Eclipse]

So there is no regulation preventing me from being a member of say NVWG and living in say TX or FL? Etc?

Nope.

IIRC I read somewhere in the regs that if you are NOT active or have moved away from your unit and no longer ATTEND that unit the unit is supposed to encourage you to find another unit closer to you and if you still do not transfer then your file goes into suspense and then your membership could be terminated??? It would not prevent you from renewing as it would not be for cause.

That gets into the conversation about normalizing the ranks and moving people who never show to 000 or patron.  No requirement to do either and people have spent literally decades as empty shirts in another state and no one cared. 

[SarDragon]

All of the DCWG units meet outside of DC.

CS has a member who is a CO resident, currently living in Europe, and a member of a CAWG unit.

As long as no one is complaining, everything is OK.

I spent ten years in a "pay-no-play" status in an overseas unit because I never found a unit to affiliate with after I retired from the Navy.

[JC004]

Huh?  Lots of people in this area are members of wings outside their states of residence.  The DEWG CC lives in MD for one...The Montana Wing CC lives in Maryland.  The PAWG DOK lives in Maryland.  Lots of people in my area are members of DEWG, having left PAWG.

Yeah...um...those little suburbs you Northeaster's call "states" don't really count.  :-)

Suburbs compared to what?...or of what?  Collectively, NJ, PA, and up are over 55 million people. 

If that area were a country, it'd be 24th in population, after Italy.  Delaware and Maryland are pretty small too.  They add another 6.5 million...Those two little states are about half the population of IL.

[mynetdude]

So there is no regulation preventing me from being a member of say NVWG and living in say TX or FL? Etc?

Nope.

IIRC I read somewhere in the regs that if you are NOT active or have moved away from your unit and no longer ATTEND that unit the unit is supposed to encourage you to find another unit closer to you and if you still do not transfer then your file goes into suspense and then your membership could be terminated??? It would not prevent you from renewing as it would not be for cause.

That gets into the conversation about normalizing the ranks and moving people who never show to 000 or patron.  No requirement to do either and people have spent literally decades as empty shirts in another state and no one cared.

if it were required, I suppose it would be tedious.

Ok how about this, since my question was answered...

I'm guessing a squadron CC can prevent you from joining their unit in their wing if you are from another wing and will not be residing in their wing? A member in question has told me that squadron commanders will not let him join from out of state so since there isn't regulation saying that you can or can't I suppose its a valid reason provided you can prove you will be active at least 50% of the time IMHO. Although if I were squadron CC I would not mind, if they want to join and only come once a year what's the harm (or if they don't come at all?)

[Eclipse]

I'm guessing a squadron CC can prevent you from joining their unit in their wing if you are from another wing and will not be residing in their wing? A member in question has told me that squadron commanders will not let him join from out of state so since there isn't regulation saying that you can or can't I suppose its a valid reason provided you can prove you will be active at least 50% of the time IMHO. Although if I were squadron CC I would not mind, if they want to join and only come once a year what's the harm (or if they don't come at all?)

Membership at a respective squadron is at the pleasure of the respective squadron CC, no reason as to why they don't want you is required  by regulation, though certainly not living in the same state could be considered a valid reason.

A squadron CC can refuse new membership or transfer of anyone without comment, and can transfer anyone they want to 000 at their
discretion.  (Risking the wrath of higher HQ, of course).

[Eclipse]

Huh?  Lots of people in this area are members of wings outside their states of residence.  The DEWG CC lives in MD for one...The Montana Wing CC lives in Maryland.  The PAWG DOK lives in Maryland.  Lots of people in my area are members of DEWG, having left PAWG.

Yeah...um...those little suburbs you Northeaster's call "states" don't really count.  :-)

Suburbs compared to what?...or of what?  Collectively, NJ, PA, and up are over 55 million people. 

Real states - we have mall parking lots out my way bigger than some of the NE "states".  RI?  Seriously?   

[mynetdude]

Huh?  Lots of people in this area are members of wings outside their states of residence.  The DEWG CC lives in MD for one...The Montana Wing CC lives in Maryland.  The PAWG DOK lives in Maryland.  Lots of people in my area are members of DEWG, having left PAWG.

Yeah...um...those little suburbs you Northeaster's call "states" don't really count.  :-)

Suburbs compared to what?...or of what?  Collectively, NJ, PA, and up are over 55 million people. 

Real states - we have mall parking lots out my way bigger than some of the NE "states".  RI?  Seriously?   

a whole mall parking lot bigger than a state? That's hard to imagine living in a state that small with no air to breathe .

I heard somewhere Microsoft wanted to turn their Renton campus in Washington into a city or have its own city boundaries, mayorship, etc but whoever had jurisdiction in the matter wouldn't let them AFAIK.

Geeze some of the military bases or ANG facilities almost look like a city in itself

[lordmonar]

Huh?  Lots of people in this area are members of wings outside their states of residence.  The DEWG CC lives in MD for one...The Montana Wing CC lives in Maryland.  The PAWG DOK lives in Maryland.  Lots of people in my area are members of DEWG, having left PAWG.

Yeah...um...those little suburbs you Northeaster's call "states" don't really count.  :-)

Said the little toy dog to the great dane! 
You mean the 13 ORIGINAL States of the Union? Are those the 'burbs' you're referring to?!?

[BillB]

Disney World in Florida is a legal City. It even has taxing authority, but why would they want to tax themselves?

[Al Sayre]

They don't tax themselves, they tax the tourists...  It also allows their security force to have police powers.

[Cecil DP]

The Florida Wing Deputy Chief of Staff lives in Ohio and according to his bio is an elected official there.

[davidsinn]

INWG's CV and EST are both from Kentucky.

[EMT-83]

My squadron CC and several squadron members live out of state. Yes, there are nearby units on the other side of the border.

[vento]

Interesting thread. If I am not mistaken, membership dues are not the same from one wing to another. Pay higher price to play in a lower cost state or pay less money and play in a higher priced wing? Just saying...

[mynetdude]

Disney World in Florida is a legal City. It even has taxing authority, but why would they want to tax themselves?

Tax themselves? You mean its guests ?

[mynetdude]

In the age of computers/IT and being able to send paperwork electronically as reluctant some may be I don't see why being a member in one state while living in another is an issue just have to remember that if you want to participate in any activities in your state of residence you need to get permission from the wing you are IN not from the wing you are physically located.

I am sure commanders want active bodies and that's quite understandable. However someone transferring to another wing for one reason or another should not have to be obligated to be 100% active unless their duty position requires it or they commit to doing so.

I haven't read regulations specifically however during our last SUI we got dinged for not having enough members in their specialty tracks given the # of people vs positions still not filled etc etc etc (but we had new members and they were not ready for a specialty track just yet at the time of the SUI) but my point is, you're supposed to take on a duty position at a squadron you are a member of IIRC which means you are supposed to DO your job.

However there ARE ways to do your job without being present for jobs that don't require active member meeting attendance or whatnot.  If your job is very specific based on squadron needs, that just might work otherwise if you have a broader job requirement that the squadron needs then you would need to plan on being there more often/regularly.

[RiverAux]

There is no requirement for any senior member to take a "job".  Someone could still quietly help away without holding a staff position. 

[Short Field]

There is no requirement for any senior member to take a "job".  Someone could still quietly help away without holding a staff position.

So we want to recommend that to all our new members?  I can see that for a old hand with years in the organization in a lot of different jobs but not for a newbie.

just have to remember that if you want to participate in any activities in your state of residence you need to get permission from the wing you are IN not from the wing you are physically located.

The Wing you are participating in has to approve you if you are a mission pilot. 

during our last SUI we got dinged for not having enough members in their specialty tracks given the # of people vs positions still not filled etc etc etc (but we had new members and they were not ready for a specialty track just yet at the time of the SUI)

They must have been really really new members.  I totally agree that the first thing a new member needs to do is complete Level One.  They shouldn't have a lot of distractions until that is accomplished.   I try to make sure we seriously discuss which job the new member wants and which jobs the squadron needs filled in the squadron during the Summary Conversation and then try to get them locked into a job within the next couple of meetings.  Once they get a job, they get enrolled in the supporting Specialty Track.  This should all happen within a couple of weeks of completing Level One.

[RiverAux]

There is no requirement for any senior member to take a "job".  Someone could still quietly help away without holding a staff position.

So we want to recommend that to all our new members?  I can see that for a old hand with years in the organization in a lot of different jobs but not for a newbie.

We're not talking about newbies in particular, but the small number of people who live in one Wing but belong to another, most likely not new members.

[mynetdude]

There is no requirement for any senior member to take a "job".  Someone could still quietly help away without holding a staff position.

So we want to recommend that to all our new members?  I can see that for a old hand with years in the organization in a lot of different jobs but not for a newbie.

just have to remember that if you want to participate in any activities in your state of residence you need to get permission from the wing you are IN not from the wing you are physically located.

The Wing you are participating in has to approve you if you are a mission pilot. 

during our last SUI we got dinged for not having enough members in their specialty tracks given the # of people vs positions still not filled etc etc etc (but we had new members and they were not ready for a specialty track just yet at the time of the SUI)

They must have been really really new members.  I totally agree that the first thing a new member needs to do is complete Level One.  They shouldn't have a lot of distractions until that is accomplished.   I try to make sure we seriously discuss which job the new member wants and which jobs the squadron needs filled in the squadron during the Summary Conversation and then try to get them locked into a job within the next couple of meetings.  Once they get a job, they get enrolled in the supporting Specialty Track.  This should all happen within a couple of weeks of completing Level One.

The wing you are participating has to approve you whether or not you are an MP or not.  If you are attending an activity outside your wing you need to submit your CAPF31/17 through your CoC, some wings do not necessarily enforce the requirement you need a wing CC approval but it is a courtesy to your wing CC.

Yes they were new members, they had just joined our squadron (several) within 90 days of our SUI some people go slower/faster than the others and really shouldn't be taking on a job until they've learned the fundamentals (that's how I did it when I first came to CAP and even after, I didn't take any jobs/specialty tracks until I knew for sure what I wanted to do for sure.

All good information here, thanks

[Short Field]

Yes they were new members, they had just joined our squadron (several) within 90 days of our SUI

Wow, are you sure we didn't have the same Wing inspectors on the SUIs?  Our inspectors could not even be bothered to get my duty position correct and then wrote the unit up because I had a rating of "none" in my duty position Specialty Track.  I was the assistant, not the primary, officer and I had a Senior Rating. 

This is probably worth a separate topic that could run forever.

[mynetdude]

Yes they were new members, they had just joined our squadron (several) within 90 days of our SUI

Wow, are you sure we didn't have the same Wing inspectors on the SUIs?  Our inspectors could not even be bothered to get my duty position correct and then wrote the unit up because I had a rating of "none" in my duty position Specialty Track.  I was the assistant, not the primary, officer and I had a Senior Rating. 

This is probably worth a separate topic that could run forever.

can't say the specifics, true it would be a different topic but the regs are regs and the regs do not take into consideration for NEW members or members who have JUST completed Level 1 right before the SUI I think the inspectors need to use a little COMMON SENSE.

no, sounds like you had a different inspector

[flyboy53]

I'm glad that all the upper level types are in such great assignments while living elsewhere. I see it all the time these days, but I can't help thinking that it would cause a serious problem in a crisis. I know a Florida Wing squadron commander that comes north during the summer and flies various missions...with the appropriate permissions, of course.

I would hope that it isn't a political way to get a ticket punched for some other assignment.

For junior officers and cadets, however, being a member of one wing and participating elsewhere could present some major problems. I spent 14 years as a first lieutenant because I remained a member of the Ohio Wing amid active duty assignments throughout the nation and overseas. I have a friend that is a career captain for that same reason.

I did, however, keep my observer rating current in the process and grew to know some really excellent people.

[jeders]

We used to have a member of our squadron here in TX that was actually still a part of Virginia Wing and wore his Virginia Wing and squadron patches. Of course when he moved to South Dakota, the commander there said transfer or you don't play.

But of course it will be much easier for your new squadron to take care of you if you just transfer, takes 2 minutes of the commanders time in eServices.

[BlueLakes1]

INWG's CV and EST are both from Kentucky.

FWIW, we both live in Sellersburg, IN now, right across the street from JVY. 

[davidsinn]

INWG's CV and EST are both from Kentucky.

FWIW, we both live in Sellersburg, IN now, right across the street from JVY. 

Wasn't aware you had moved major. Now you're on the right side of the Ohio river. 

[nesagsar]

They don't tax themselves, they tax the tourists...  It also allows their security force to have police powers.

If they ever make a disney world SWAT team I hope they adopt the OMOH Mickey Mouse gas masks.

[Al Sayre]

I've been told that they actually do have a SWAT team.  Don't know for certain, It's been a few years since I lived in that area, and most of my Disney contacts have moved on.