New Uniform update from NHQ 11/13/06

[Al Sayre]

A welcome change!  Gortex parkas and cloth rank on BDU caps now approved.


New uniform changes just approved by the Air Force

The Air Force has approved the wear of the Gortex parka for CAP members.  The parka is authorized with the BDU uniform and worn with a blue embroidered device on the front tab (see attached photo). The device will be available from Vanguard shortly

The Air Force also authorized the wear of the blue embroidered grade insignia on the BDU cap for CAP senior members (photo attached). The National Board approved both of these changes in March 2006.

[MIKE]

Source document please.

[Pylon]

A welcome change!  Gortex parkas and cloth rank on BDU caps now approved.


New uniform changes just approved by the Air Force

The Air Force has approved the wear of the Gortex parka for CAP members.  The parka is authorized with the BDU uniform and worn with a blue embroidered device on the front tab (see attached photo). The device will be available from Vanguard shortly

The Air Force also authorized the wear of the blue embroidered grade insignia on the BDU cap for CAP senior members (photo attached). The National Board approved both of these changes in March 2006.

Cool.  Didn't see one yet in my inbox, or any mention on cap.gov, level2.cap.gov, or nationalcommander.com.  Did the email have any attachments you could post here?

[aveighter]

I received an email notification from the Wing CC with the news.  He noted his data came from  General Pineda.

[MIKE]

FYI: There are pics up over on CS for those of us who haven't gotten an email.

http://forums.cadetstuff.org/viewtopic.php?p=154876#154876

[Lancer]

Ok, so they show the Woodland Camo, how about the BBDU's (Dark Navy Utility Uniform)? Same rules apply? I would think so, yeah?

[Psicorp]

Ok, so they show the Woodland Camo, how about the BBDU's (Dark Navy Utility Uniform)? Same rules apply? I would think so, yeah?

If you're referring to grade insignia on the hat, that has been authorized since the addition of the BBDU to our uniform repertoire.   No idea about the Gortex, not even sure there is a blue Gortex parka out there (can't imagine there isn't though).

[MIKE]

If you're referring to grade insignia on the hat, that has been authorized since the addition of the BBDU to our uniform repertoire.   No idea about the Gortex, not even sure there is a blue Gortex parka out there (can't imagine there isn't though).

Emphasis added.

Not exactly. 

[Lancer]

If you're referring to grade insignia on the hat, that has been authorized since the addition of the BBDU to our uniform repertoire.   No idea about the Gortex, not even sure there is a blue Gortex parka out there (can't imagine there isn't though).

Yeah, sorry, I should have qualified that statement.

All I can find is this...

http://www.bdu.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=F540674412

USCG Blue, looks like a much lighter shade of blue than the Dark Navy BBDU's.

[lordmonar]

If you're referring to grade insignia on the hat, that has been authorized since the addition of the BBDU to our uniform repertoire.   No idea about the Gortex, not even sure there is a blue Gortex parka out there (can't imagine there isn't though).

Emphasis added.

Not exactly. 

Eithe way....the grade insignia on the BBDU hats has been authorised for quite a while now.

[O-Rex]

Rank on hat - I wonder if USAF let us have that one since they are phasing-in the ABU next year (?)  Perhaps now folks will actually WANT to wear BDU caps over unit ballcaps...

Gore-tex Parka is a long-awaited change: who wants to wear a field-jacket anymore?

[RiverAux]

I wouldn't start sewing until there is a change letter about this....

[Hawk200]

I wouldn't start sewing until there is a change letter about this....

Be out tomorrow.



May be rescinded next week....

[Smokey]

Here is what was sent out...I couldn't copy the "NEWSFLASH FROM THE NATIONAL COMMANDER" logo....but it was on the one sent from my Wing CC and attached were photos of the parka w/insignia and the BDU cap.

Sent on behalf of Major General Pineda:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





New uniform changes just approved by the Air Force

The Air Force has approved the wear of the Gortex parka for CAP members.  The parka is authorized with the BDU uniform and worn with a blue embroidered device on the front tab (see attached photo). The device will be available from Vanguard shortly.



The Air Force also authorized the wear of the blue embroidered grade insignia on the BDU cap for CAP senior members (photo attached). The National Board approved both of these changes in March 2006.



Let's continue to partner together to provide Missions for America!       

[Eclipse]

I wouldn't start sewing until there is a change letter about this....

Be out tomorrow.



May be rescinded next week....

As those of us with two little holes in our flight caps from the TPU will attest.

[lordmonar]

I wouldn't start sewing until there is a change letter about this....

Be out tomorrow.



May be rescinded next week....

As those of us with two little holes in our flight caps from the TPU will attest.

Different ball of wax all together.....this is USAF uniforms and therefore HAD to go through USAF channels.

The new corporate uniform did not have to go through that process and was only changed because (so I have been told) of Air Force's objections on legal grounds. (hence the US got changed to CAP and the ranks came off) (The rank looked stupid on that side anyway...it may be okay for the Navy...it just did not look Air Force enough to me  )

[Becks]

yay, time to bust out my gortex

[JC004]

 :clap:  YAY!

[A.Member]

Haven't seen anything official yet but the Gortex would be a welcome and long overdue change. 

The rank on the BDU cap...eh.  Don't really care either way.  However, if they do require it, they need to put the darn thing in the correct spot, unlike the photo on cadetstuff.org.  If they can't do that correctly, I don't want it.

[arajca]

Define "correct spot". If NHQ sets the location as centered, 1/2" above the bill, guess what - that's the correct spot. Whether or not you agree with it is irrelevent. How anyone else does it is also irrelevent.

[Pylon]

Define "correct spot". If NHQ sets the location as centered, 1/2" above the bill, guess what - that's the correct spot. Whether or not you agree with it is irrelevent. How anyone else does it is also irrelevent.

And how crappy and poorly placed it looks is irrelevent if it's the "correct" spot.   

[JohnKachenmeister]

I'm glad about the change authorizing rank on the hat.  This has been in the works for at least two years.

I'm still not changing my MAJCOM patch until the last possibile minute.

I'm a rebel and I'll never ever be any good.

[A.Member]

Define "correct spot". If NHQ sets the location as centered, 1/2" above the bill, guess what - that's the correct spot. Whether or not you agree with it is irrelevent. How anyone else does it is also irrelevent.

Define correct?  Not resting on the visor!  No one does that because it looks stupid.  But you're correct, there is no requirement stating that the board's decisions must be guided by logic and, ultimately, what I or anyone else thinks is probably irrelevant.  That doesn't mean we don't get an opinion.

"Correct" would be something like this (I'll let you determine where these models for "correctness" were obtained):
Source 1
"Officers wear the regular size cloth or subdued metal grade insignia on the BDU cap. Grade insignia will be centered vertically and horizontally. Colonel grade insignia is worn with the eagle's beak pointed towards the wearer's right shoulder (indicates the eagle is facing forward)."

Source 2
(2) Grade insignia (branch insignia for chaplains) is centered on the front of the headgear left to right, and top to bottom; no other insignia is worn on the headgear listed above (see fig 28–19).

(Note:  strikethrough in Source 1 was my edit)

[arajca]

From CAP/CC New uniform changes just approved by the Air Force 13 Nov 2006

The Air Force has approved the wear of the Gortex parka for CAP members. The parka is authorized with the BDU uniform and worn with a blue embroidered device on the front tab (see attached photo). The device will be available from Vanguard shortly. The Air Force also authorized the wear of the blue embroidered grade insignia on the BDU cap for CAP senior members (photo attached). The National Board approved both of these changes in March 2006.

The Gore-Tex parka may be worn with the CAP utility and field uniforms and with the CAP blue flight suit; however, the blue flight jacket is the suggested outergarment for wear with the blue CAP flight suit.

emphasis mine

I wonder if this part was approved by the AF.

[SarDragon]

Define "correct spot". If NHQ sets the location as centered, 1/2" above the bill, guess what - that's the correct spot. Whether or not you agree with it is irrelevent. How anyone else does it is also irrelevent.

Define correct?  Not resting on the visor!  No one does that because it looks stupid.  But you're correct, there is no requirement stating that the board's decisions must be guided by logic and, ultimately, what I or anyone else thinks is probably irrelevant.  That doesn't mean we don't get an opinion.

"Correct" would be something like this (I'll let you determine where these models for "correctness" were obtained):
Source 1
"Officers wear the regular size cloth or subdued metal grade insignia on the BDU cap. Grade insignia will be centered vertically and horizontally. Colonel grade insignia is worn with the eagle's beak pointed towards the wearer's right shoulder (indicates the eagle is facing forward)."

Source 2
(2) Grade insignia (branch insignia for chaplains) is centered on the front of the headgear left to right, and top to bottom; no other insignia is worn on the headgear listed above (see fig 28–19).

Well, it DIDN'T come from CAPM 39-1, so any other source is irrelevant. Nor did it come from AFI36-2903, so it is even less relevant.

So, what's your point? The existing guidance from CAPM 39-1 has been provided. It has been acknowledged as inadequate. Now we wait and see how TPTB fix it.

[A.Member]

Nor did it come from AFI36-2903, so it is even less relevant.

Perhaps you'll want to check again. 

[lordmonar]

From CAP/CC New uniform changes just approved by the Air Force 13 Nov 2006

The Air Force has approved the wear of the Gortex parka for CAP members. The parka is authorized with the BDU uniform and worn with a blue embroidered device on the front tab (see attached photo). The device will be available from Vanguard shortly. The Air Force also authorized the wear of the blue embroidered grade insignia on the BDU cap for CAP senior members (photo attached). The National Board approved both of these changes in March 2006.

The Gore-Tex parka may be worn with the CAP utility and field uniforms and with the CAP blue flight suit; however, the blue flight jacket is the suggested outergarment for wear with the blue CAP flight suit.

emphasis mine

I wonder if this part was approved by the AF.

All of it?  I don't see why the AF would not...once it authorised the Gortex for wear, they could very well not authorise for the BBDUs....BTW...IIRC any "civilian" jacket was authorised for the BBDU anyway....the only difference now is that you can wear a rank tab on it.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Define "correct spot". If NHQ sets the location as centered, 1/2" above the bill, guess what - that's the correct spot. Whether or not you agree with it is irrelevent. How anyone else does it is also irrelevent.

And how crappy and poorly placed it looks is irrelevent if it's the "correct" spot.   

I'm not sure, Pylon.  I looked at my bdu cap, and putting the bottom edge of the rank insignia 1/2 inch up from the visor seems to make it higher than illustrated.  Unless the regulation, when we get it, specifies "Center of mass" at 1/2 inch.  One never knows, I guess.

[Pylon]

Define "correct spot". If NHQ sets the location as centered, 1/2" above the bill, guess what - that's the correct spot. Whether or not you agree with it is irrelevent. How anyone else does it is also irrelevent.

And how crappy and poorly placed it looks is irrelevent if it's the "correct" spot.   

I'm not sure, Pylon.  I looked at my bdu cap, and putting the bottom edge of the rank insignia 1/2 inch up from the visor seems to make it higher than illustrated.  Unless the regulation, when we get it, specifies "Center of mass" at 1/2 inch.  One never knows, I guess.

You're right... who knows until we get the actual wording of the policy, and try it out.  The photoshopped version just looks like crap.      The insignia is clearly a bit too small, and if that's how it looks when it is really placed, then I think it's poorly planned.

I just can't imagine why somebody couldn't pin an embroidered insignia on a CAP quickly to take a photo before this went out across the wire.  Randomly.   

[LtCol White]

I think its just a poor quality rush job in photoshop. I'm sure it will be placed in accordance with USAF regs which was the same when it was previously authorized in the old days

[Psicorp]

Does it strike anyone else as a little "odd" that the newly approved changes/additions are listed as answers in the "Knowledgebase", but that there isn't a policy letter issued as of yet?   

The Knowledgebase says:

"BDU headgear Question
     Does the definition of BDU cover include the Navy style covers, or is it limited to the Air Force/Army style covers only?
     Answer
     From CAP/CC New uniform changes just approved by the Air Force 13 Nov 2006
The Air Force has approved the wear of the Gortex parka for CAP members. The parka is authorized with the BDU uniform and worn with a blue embroidered device on the front tab (see attached photo). The device will be available from Vanguard shortly.
The Air Force also authorized the wear of the blue embroidered grade insignia on the BDU cap for CAP senior members (photo attached). The National Board approved both of these changes in March 2006."

Knowledgebase Link

[Hawk200]

Does it strike anyone else as a little "odd" that the newly approved changes/additions are listed as answers in the "Knowledgebase", but that there isn't a policy letter issued as of yet?   

Not at all. Everyone knows that, occasionally, the cart is in front of the horse. 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Psicorp]

Does it strike anyone else as a little "odd" that the newly approved changes/additions are listed as answers in the "Knowledgebase", but that there isn't a policy letter issued as of yet?   

Not at all. Everyone knows that, occasionally, the cart is in front of the horse. 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Going uphill...both ways...


Thanks, Mike!  One day I'll actually figure out HTML, I promise.

[SarDragon]

Nor did it come from AFI36-2903, so it is even less relevant.

Perhaps you'll want to check again. 

As apparently quoted, the AFI was not the source. If you paraphrased it, you shouldn't make it appear as a direct quote. CAPM 39-1 is our governing regulation, and it currently does not provide complete guidance on the matter.

And I'm done with this, since you obviously have decided that you are right in spite of any evidence otherwise.

[RiverAux]

Folks, I wouldn't go spending a lot of money on Gortex jackets just yet.  Keep in mind that the AF will be going to a different uniform pattern very soon and I expect a glut of those jackets going to surplus.  So, we should probably be able to get some cheap or free, at least for a while.  Also, I wouldn't spend money on them anyway since it probably won't be but a few years before CAP changes uniform patterns to fall in line with the AF and the jacket will be totally obsolete.

[MIKE]

I have one already... The trousers too.  So, no biggie.  'cept it's Gen II and not Gen I as shown in the pic. 

I have also seen cheaper knockoffs that aren't Gore-Tex that were priced similar to M-65s.

[Psicorp]

Folks, I wouldn't go spending a lot of money on Gortex jackets just yet.  Keep in mind that the AF will be going to a different uniform pattern very soon and I expect a glut of those jackets going to surplus.  So, we should probably be able to get some cheap or free, at least for a while.  Also, I wouldn't spend money on them anyway since it probably won't be but a few years before CAP changes uniform patterns to fall in line with the AF and the jacket will be totally obsolete.

Spend a lot of money on uniforms?  Are you insane??  Ebay is my friend...I just picked up a Mess Dress tonight that needs a little alteration for $40.   If I had held off on every uniform change, I'd be attending meetings in civies.

[KyCAP]

Screening DRMO, looks like about 40 of these in surplus in Stockton, CA if any one in CA is interested.....

[A.Member]

As apparently quoted, the AFI was not the source. If you paraphrased it, you shouldn't make it appear as a direct quote...

...And I'm done with this, since you obviously have decided that you are right in spite of any evidence otherwise.

Actually, I decided that I'm right because, with the exception of my strikethrough (which is noted), it is a direct quote from AFI 36-2903, top of page 33.  And the second example is from AR 670-1.

[SarDragon]

OK, I cede the quote. I had the previous version of the AFI. However it still isn't CAPM 39-1, so it remains irrelevant.

[DNall]

If it's a 1/2 in up, that means resting over the seam of the horiz band, which is the right place. It'll be the same as the BBDU hat, so don't worry about bad work in photoshop. I wouldn't count on lots of goretex being on surplus any time soon. The AF won't be switched fully to ACUs till 2009, and goretex will not neccessarily happen at the same time. eBay tends to have several of these if you keep your eyes open.

[A.Member]

However it still isn't CAPM 39-1, so it remains irrelevant.

I agree, it's not in 39-1.  However, the fact that it's not in 39-1 is exactly why it's relevent.  Since, the wear of these items is not defined anywhere, what is the specific wear requirement?  That's the question - not only by me but apparently by several others here as well.  As you indicated earlier, a formal change/clarification to CAPM 39-1 is needed for these updates.

It appears that the Newsflash was hastily distributed for some unknown reason.  Why the rush?  It's been ~9 months, surely they could've taken a little more time to complete the requirement and get the ducks in a row.  The e-mail (at least the one I received) does not include any specific guidance for wear of either item aside from the attachment of a couple photos.  As a result, wear is entirely open to intepretation of a photo (which a number seem to question). 

The e-mail never should've have been distributed without a specific requirements on wear.  Nonetheless, it did go out and hopefully clarification on these issues is forthcoming soon.  And when the requirement is finally documented, it's my hope that they looked to AFI 36-2903 for guidance on wear.   That was the point. 

[arajca]

They'll probably look to CAPM 39-1 which specifies the location for cadet officer insignia on the bdu cap. That is what they did for the bbdu patrol cap.

[shorning]

The AF won't be switched fully to ACUs till 2009...

The Air Force isn't switching to ACUs.  That's the Army.  The new Air Force uniform is the ABU.  It may seem nitpicky, but they aren't the same thing.  It would be like referring to the Army's new uniform as "MARPATS".

[MIKE]

ABU - Airman Battle Uniform

ACU - Army Combat Uniform

[lordmonar]

The AF won't be switched fully to ACUs till 2009...

The Air Force isn't switching to ACUs.  That's the Army.  The new Air Force uniform is the ABU.  It may seem nitpicky, but they aren't the same thing.  It would be like referring to the Army's new uniform as "MARPATS".

And we have already switched to ABU's....it is a done deal.  The ABUs (so I have been told) will be on the shelf and issued to deploying Airman in January.  2009 may be the manditory wear date (I don't recall ever seeing a hard date yet) but if so 90% of the force will be wearing ABU's by '08 if we use the fatigues to BDU switch as a model.

[shorning]

The AF won't be switched fully to ACUs till 2009...

The Air Force isn't switching to ACUs.  That's the Army.  The new Air Force uniform is the ABU.  It may seem nitpicky, but they aren't the same thing.  It would be like referring to the Army's new uniform as "MARPATS".

And we have already switched to ABU's....it is a done deal.  The ABUs (so I have been told) will be on the shelf and issued to deploying Airman in January.  2009 may be the manditory wear date (I don't recall ever seeing a hard date yet) but if so 90% of the force will be wearing ABU's by '08 if we use the fatigues to BDU switch as a model.

No, no, no...we haven't switched yet.  We are in the process of transitioning from one uniform to the others.  In fact, we're just beginning the transition.  They aren't even on the street yet.  We'll have switched when the BDUs are phased out.  Semantics?  Yes.  But the point is the Air Force isn't the ones wearing the ACU.


But what do I know...I wear blues every day...

[lordmonar]

But what do I know...I wear blues every day...

HQ weenie!

[shorning]

But what do I know...I wear blues every day...

HQ weenie!

Dude, "echelons above reality".  Heck, I'm not really in the Air Force right now.

[LtCol White]

There really isnt much need for guidance on these 2 items. Come on guys. use some common sense.

Gortex parka is authorized for wear. When do u wear it? Whenever u want with your BDUs. Just like the M 65. What do u put on it? The new blue slide when it is available.

Rank on the BDU cap: We had it before and now its back. Placement of the rank will be as it is with all branches and was for us in the past.

It was probably put out so fast becuase they felt these items were simple enough for everyone to figure out on their own. Perhaps not

[lordmonar]

But what do I know...I wear blues every day...

HQ weenie!

Dude, "echelons above reality".  Heck, I'm not really in the Air Force right now.

Oh GREAT...that makes you a JOINT HQ WEENIE!

[shorning]

But what do I know...I wear blues every day...

HQ weenie!

Dude, "echelons above reality".  Heck, I'm not really in the Air Force right now.

Oh GREAT...that makes you a JOINT HQ WEENIE!

Shooh...or we'll tag you with a RFF...

[SarDragon]

There really isnt much need for guidance on these 2 items. Come on guys. use some common sense.

Gortex parka is authorized for wear. When do u wear it? Whenever u want with your BDUs. Just like the M 65. What do u put on it? The new blue slide when it is available.

Rank on the BDU cap: We had it before and now its back. Placement of the rank will be as it is with all branches and was for us in the past.

It was probably put out so fast becuase they felt these items were simple enough for everyone to figure out on their own. Perhaps not

Common sense? What a concept!

But that's exactly what the reg queens decry when situations like this come up. "Well, the reg doesn't say we can do [this or that]", or "Well, I interpret it like this", are the general answers that come up. It ends up turning into an even bigger urinating competition than we have here.

(By the way, in my posts above, I was pointing out the lack of CAP guidance, but not advocating any specific course of action.)

I think using "common sense" is an OK idea, but then you get the problem of further non-uniformity because of different ideas and interpretations.

YMMV.

[DNall]

The AF won't be switched fully to ACUs till 2009...

The Air Force isn't switching to ACUs.  That's the Army.  The new Air Force uniform is the ABU.  It may seem nitpicky, but they aren't the same thing.  It would be like referring to the Army's new uniform as "MARPATS".

Yes of course, my bad. I got ACUs in the closet, the AF is going to ABUs. Not that I think it's a good idea for everone to have dif styles, but that's another subject.

AF is scheduled to be switched into ABUs by 2009. I haven't heard anything about goretex patterns being switched at the same time & in fact that might come after the fact... all of which means the supply of surplus from the AF isn't huge for a while, but the Army is switching now, including goretex, so there is some out there from that angle.

[LtCol White]

SARDRAGON I agree with you that the common sense part can be dangerous in some areas. But come on, how can anyone NOT figure this one out.  The announcement on this was clear. The photos were crappy and caused confusion becuase people recognized that it didnt match the regs.  There are enough of us from the old days and current military who, if we do our jobs right, will explain to the others how it should be. Some things were meant for common sense while other were meant for letter of the law. I think its clear that this one is a common sense one.

[lordmonar]

But what do I know...I wear blues every day...

HQ weenie!

Dude, "echelons above reality".  Heck, I'm not really in the Air Force right now.

Oh GREAT...that makes you a JOINT HQ WEENIE!

Shooh...or we'll tag you with a RFF...

But I am a fully trained AFSOC warrior!  I got a certificate and everything!

[DNall]

If I might interject. I don't think there are enough military or old-days types around to cover all of CAP, certainly all Sqs don't have the benefit of such people. It's my belief that CAP regs should actually go well beyond the detail provided in AF regs to spell everything out, because we don't have the culture around us to clear up the unwritten details to a single standard that you could call common sense if you were talking about people with the benefit of a military background & training. I tend to feel you need to write the things like they're for martians so there is no question of the standard you're trying to attain, and would like to see a supplement instruction detailing additional stuff that is common but not required - garters & stuff like that.

[shorning]

But what do I know...I wear blues every day...

HQ weenie!

Dude, "echelons above reality".  Heck, I'm not really in the Air Force right now.

Oh GREAT...that makes you a JOINT HQ WEENIE!

Shooh...or we'll tag you with a RFF...

But I am a fully trained AFSOC warrior!  I got a certificate and everything!

Even better!  I've got a perfect place for you!

[afgeo4]

JUST FYI:

CAP ultramarine gore-tex nametapes for parkas ARE and HAVE BEEN available through www.supplysergeant.com, feel free to put in orders. These are narrow nametapes for above the left arm pocket, not the rank sleeve.

[lordmonar]

JUST FYI:

CAP ultramarine gore-tex nametapes for parkas ARE and HAVE BEEN available through www.supplysergeant.com, feel free to put in orders. These are narrow nametapes for above the left arm pocket, not the rank sleeve.

And not even authorised by this new e-mail.

[davedove]

I tend to feel you need to write the things like they're for martians so there is no question of the standard you're trying to attain, and would like to see a supplement instruction detailing additional stuff that is common but not required - garters & stuff like that.

I tend to agree with that.  Like you said, there are not necessarily a lot of members with a lot of military experience, let alone Air Force experience.  Sure, it's probably impossible to get all the details in the regs, especially since things change, but we can come close.

When I was in the Army, I was told that manuals are often written at the sixth grade level so that they were plain and simple.

[LtCol White]

DNALL I agree. I'm not saying it doesnt need to be spelled out in detail.
It should be done in great detail in the revised 39-1.

I was only referring to the comments about how fast the info on the gortex and rank on the BDU came out without giving detailed guidelines on them. That was my comment about them being common sense and able to gain assistance for those who didn't find the authorization letter to be clear. It wasnt a general term related to all regulations or stating that not everything needed to be detailed out.  Simply that this one should have been clear enough in the interim to suffice.

[A.Member]

DNALL I agree. I'm not saying it doesnt need to be spelled out in detail.
It should be done in great detail in the revised 39-1.

Then the communication on it's wear should wait until that detail is provided in a revision or supplement.

I was only referring to the comments about how fast the info on the gortex and rank on the BDU came out without giving detailed guidelines on them. That was my comment about them being common sense and able to gain assistance for those who didn't find the authorization letter to be clear. It wasnt a general term related to all regulations or stating that not everything needed to be detailed out.  Simply that this one should have been clear enough in the interim to suffice.

What may be "common sense" to you or I may not be so common to someone else.  After all, that's the whole purpose of having regulations isn't it - to remove ambiguity?  I've actually heard people ask which way Lt bars should be worn on headgear.  So, simply saying use "common sense" is not a requirement.  Attaching a photo, particularly when it appears to be a poorly Photoshopped image, is also not a requirement (ex. is that a mini cloth insignia? ...a new uniform item?). 

It's very simple really (maybe even common sense?), no uniform changes should be communicated without an accompanying wear requirement (for example: Corporate Changes).  It's not that hard to do nor is it too much to ask.  As a matter of fact, in this case, it probably would've taken less time to do than creating the Photoshopped picture.   Even the addition of a simple statement such as, "Reference AFI 36-2903, Figure 2.12 for wear instructions" (or something similar) would be sufficient.

[Psicorp]

What may be "common sense" to you or I may not be so common to someone else.  After all, that's the whole purpose of having regulations isn't it?  I've actually heard people ask which way Lt bars should be worn on headgear. 

Umm...horizontally on the inside of the headgear, right?

*grin*   silly butterbars.

[A.Member]

Umm...horizontally on the inside of the headgear, right?

*grin*   silly butterbars.

Close... 

[BillB]

 Re: New Uniform update from NHQ 11/13/06

Umm...horizontally on the inside of the headgear, right?


Only on the TPU.

[Lancer]

<tongue in cheek>
I think the reason they sent the initial information out so soon is so every will be ready and get their orders into Vanguard, so that in the weeks and months it takes for the regulations to be updated, you'll finally have your parka and will know how to place rank and whatnot; just when things are starting to thaw.
</tongue in cheek>   

[DNall]

I wouldn't jump the gun here. I still haven't seen an official policy letter yet. It's just a heads up on something coming down the pipe & I think most all of us know what the standards will be based on not being retarded for starters. I was just making an aside about how so many things have come down of late, plus the horriblly executed revision on good intentions the current 39-1 is, equals we should re-write the thing in a user friendly method but with MUCH MORE detail than is common in AF regs, cause basically you're sending a document out to troops that have no frame of reference & very likely can't get one - so like you're talking to martians.

[afgeo4]

I don't believe I've ever seen authorization for the gore-tex name tape in the AFMAN either actually.  IMHO it makes as much sense as say... not wearing nametapes on BDU's or field jackets.

[MIKE]

* Bump *

CAP/CC Letter, Change to CAPR 39-1, CAP Uniforms 20 Nov 06

This garment will be worn with an ultramarine blue embroidered device on the front tab
(see atch 1). Cadet and senior member officers will wear the device with embroidered
grade insignia. Cadet and senior member NCOs will wear the device with the
embroidered CAP and metal grade insignia.

2. The Air Force has also authorized the wear of the ultramarine blue embroidered
grade insignia centered on the BDU hat (see atch 2) by senior member officers. The
grade insignia may be worn immediately and a mandatory wear date of 1 May 2006 has
been established.

Emphasis added. 

   

[Hawk200]

* Bump *

CAP/CC Letter, Change to CAPR 39-1, CAP Uniforms 20 Nov 06

This garment will be worn with an ultramarine blue embroidered device on the front tab
(see atch 1). Cadet and senior member officers will wear the device with embroidered
grade insignia. Cadet and senior member NCOs will wear the device with the
embroidered CAP and metal grade insignia.

2. The Air Force has also authorized the wear of the ultramarine blue embroidered
grade insignia centered on the BDU hat (see atch 2) by senior member officers. The
grade insignia may be worn immediately and a mandatory wear date of 1 May 2006 has
been established.

Emphasis added. 

   

Nice!

And jeez, did it take them long enough to come out with that policy letter, or what?

[TankerT]

And jeez, did it take them long enough to come out with that policy letter, or what?

Remember, NHQ lost about... what... 30% of their paid staff in the last year?  Of course that is going to slow them down compared to before...

DNall's comments about being overstaffed or something else complaining about my comment in 5...4...3...2...

[Hawk200]

And jeez, did it take them long enough to come out with that policy letter, or what?

Remember, NHQ lost about... what... 30% of their paid staff in the last year?  Of course that is going to slow them down compared to before...

DNall's comments about being overstaffed or something else complaining about my comment in 5...4...3...2...

30% ? I didn't even know that, been a little more concerned about my own unit, having just rejoined after about a 5 year absence.

So really, 30% ? All that money go to the infinitely spendier project 25 radios?

[arajca]

And jeez, did it take them long enough to come out with that policy letter, or what?

Remember, NHQ lost about... what... 30% of their paid staff in the last year?  Of course that is going to slow them down compared to before...

DNall's comments about being overstaffed or something else complaining about my comment in 5...4...3...2...

30% ? I didn't even know that, been a little more concerned about my own unit, having just rejoined after about a 5 year absence.

So really, 30% ? All that money go to the infinitely spendier project 25 radios?

The radios have nothing to do with the staff funding. The AF funded the radios specifically on a different budget. The P25 requirement was set by Congress, I think.

[DNall]

Everything was set by Congress, the AF doesn't appropriate money, they ask for it. The two items were seperate on the budget, but don't think Congress doesn't know how much gets spent on CAP over the course of several bills. I don't think the radios had anyting to do with the staff at all, but rather they narrowed the margin of error when you go asking for more money.

[SJFedor]

Here's something interesting, the new command patch is only authorized for the corporate uniforms right now, the USAF Aux patch is still the patch authorized for the USAF flight suit.

And the letter finally has guidance on where to put the grade on the hat and how the tab will be worn on the goretex.

Well, now that I've seen it in black and white, I guess I can get to sewing.

[MIKE]

I think I'll get a new cap first.

[DNall]

Here's something interesting, the new command patch is only authorized for the corporate uniforms right now, the USAF Aux patch is still the patch authorized for the USAF flight suit.

Because of course it requires approval from AF to make a change on the AF uniform, and I'm not sur it's good practice to make changes to the corporate side & put AF in a box to approve it on their side too or for them to be responsible for costing us more money.

Secondly, this seems to confirm for me that this change & the USAF AUX off the planes are not driven by the AF, but rather CAP trying to runing corporate to be free of AF restrictions. That's not good at all.

[SJFedor]

Myself and James Colgan are having a dicussion about this now, and the general consensus is that we hope the AF takes a huge dump on NHQ for requesting more of this crap.

[lordmonar]

Here's something interesting, the new command patch is only authorized for the corporate uniforms right now, the USAF Aux patch is still the patch authorized for the USAF flight suit.

Because of course it requires approval from AF to make a change on the AF uniform, and I'm not sur it's good practice to make changes to the corporate side & put AF in a box to approve it on their side too or for them to be responsible for costing us more money.

Secondly, this seems to confirm for me that this change & the USAF AUX off the planes are not driven by the AF, but rather CAP trying to runing corporate to be free of AF restrictions. That's not good at all.

Maybe it is just National trying to unify our image....that we are always CAP.  they require USAF to sign off on it for the flight suit, and they are waiting for that approval.  If USAF said no to flight suit and we still went ahead and did it on corporates...then we would be trying to do an end run.  I think this is just that the USAF wheels take longer to go around on uniform issues than CAP does.

[DNall]

Sure I understand that. Like I've said before, there would have been no issue at all if it'd said "Civil Air Patrol" from the start, but to giveth & then taketh away is worse than to never have had it at all.

Ff you're the AF General sitting there with this to approve or not & CAP has already produced & implemented it for corporates, I realize you could still kill it, but doesn't the fact that they've gone ahead tend to make you feel like the bar to turn it down is a bit higher than it should have been. I'm not of the opinion that CAP should treat General officers like that. It's not exactly good for the long run.

Also, the speculation when this first came out was that this & the name on the tail of planes were ordered by the AF. This seems to prove the AF had nothing to do with it. That in turn will lead a lot of members to see corporate chasing off on its own & running away from teh AF for no reason at all.

[mikeylikey]

AGREED!  Corporation once again takes one more step away from the AF.

[lordmonar]

I keep seeing this as a recurring thread.  CAP somehow wanting to push away from the USAF and that this some how is an evil conspiracy.

First...with out the USAF, CAP has no budget.  So why would we want to push them away?  What does CAP gain by being with out the USAF.

Second....by removing the USAF-AUX label in going with just CAP, we position ourselves to have access to other missions and other sources of funding.

So...by my take of this, it is a win-win situation.  We are still CAP (the Official Auxiliary to the USAF) and we can start tapping into more missions.  USAF still has the SAR/DR capability we bring to the table and we provide that same and expanded service to other federal, state, and local customers.

So...please....someone explain how it is we are pushing away the USAF by putting our name on our aircraft and uniforms (because we are always the CAP but only sometimes the USAF-AUX) and why this is a bad thing.

[Major_Chuck]

The problem as I see it (and it crosses many threads and topics) is that we've allowed two separate camps to form within CAP.  One to be more like the AF and the other Corporate.  We set ourselves up for our own fall everytime we classify something as either "Air Force" or "Corporate" rather than just one, "Civil Air Patrol".

I know it may just be a matter of terminology but when you start making huge distinctions such as Corporate Funded Mission versus Air Force Funded Mission, or Corporate Uniform  verus Air Force Style Uniform you are dividing the organization and creating a lot of confusion (not only within the rank and file but to outsiders looking in).

It may sound simplistic but instead of refering to Air Force Style Service Uniform and Corporate Uniform just call them Civil Air Patrol Uniform Combo One, Combo Two, Flight Suit A, Flight Suit B.    Regardless of the style or who wears it they all start off with Civil Air Patrol.

When I joined CAP in 1990 I didn't join to belong to a corporation nor did I join to serve on active duty (for the record I am AF prior service and current ARNG).  I joined Civil Air Patrol which just happened to be the Auxiliary of the United States Air Force.

We are doing ourselves in and probably not even aware of it.