Epauletes on white aviator shirt for SMWOG

[Custer]

If wearing the white shirt/gray slacks combo, does a SMWOG wear the epaulets with CAP only, or do they wear them at all?

I think what got this started is the fact that the Coast Guard Aux in fact DOES wear blank Epaulets for basic members.  Apparently CAP does not though it actually sounds like a good idea.

What amazes me the most about this is that 39-1 is five years old, and the entire blue/white uniform came AND went since its last publication.  I can only imagine how many change letters there must be and can not imagine how one would make sure they had all of them.

I drifted out of CAP in the late 80's and all I've figured out for sure is that my blue Captains slide on rank is out now.  (I don't think the rank would be restored if I came back after all this time anyway)

[Eclipse]

What amazes me the most about this is that 39-1 is five years old, and the entire blue/white uniform came AND went since its last publication.  I can only imagine how many change letters there must be and can not imagine how one would make sure they had all of them.

You would download them here:

http://www.capmembers.com/forms_publications__regulations/indexes_regulations_and_manuals.cfm

[mynetdude]

I see a SM wearing the grey sleeves on his white aviator shirt, I'm seeing all kinds of things that shouldn't be done and should be done that aren't being done.

I'm always harrassed that I am not wearing my uniform correctly even though regs TELL me I can wear what I am wearing and some states such as Alaska, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, etc where the winters are far from mild (it can get pretty COLD here) IIRC I thought the use of civilian coats over the BDUs were not permitted but I have been told they are ONLY in the northern states in the colder winter months and I am making an effort to wear what would normally go with my BDUs because at the beginning I didn't have a camo outerwear BDU coat for a long time until now.

I have also contemplated not staying in CAP because people continue to flaunt regulations and tell people who are within regulations that they aren't.  It gets old, but you know what??? There is something about CAP I know I can make a difference and I have to go somewhere else in CAP to do that.

I am not giving up, but I do not see an end to this baloney which only means my future goals for CAP are no longer long term.

I don't have any plans to tell that SMWOG that he is wearing his uniform wrong because I can't be so sure its wrong.

[Eclipse]

I'm always harrassed that I am not wearing my uniform correctly even though regs TELL me I can wear what I am wearing and some states such as Alaska, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, etc where the winters are far from mild (it can get pretty COLD here) IIRC I thought the use of civilian coats over the BDUs were not permitted but I have been told they are ONLY in the northern states in the colder winter months and I am making an effort to wear what would normally go with my BDUs because at the beginning I didn't have a camo outerwear BDU coat for a long time until now.

There is no such blanket waiver for Northern states, and doubtful in any.  39-1 is clear on both outerwear for seniors and the SMWOG issue.

The ICL issue not withstanding, for the most part 39-1 is clear on the major parts of the uniforms, and most people with issues are tying themselves in knots to do something they want to.

It could be much better, and would be simple to update regularly, but most "problems" are caused because people can't be bothered to read at all, preferring to believe the old wives over common sense.

[mynetdude]

I'm always harrassed that I am not wearing my uniform correctly even though regs TELL me I can wear what I am wearing and some states such as Alaska, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, etc where the winters are far from mild (it can get pretty COLD here) IIRC I thought the use of civilian coats over the BDUs were not permitted but I have been told they are ONLY in the northern states in the colder winter months and I am making an effort to wear what would normally go with my BDUs because at the beginning I didn't have a camo outerwear BDU coat for a long time until now.

There is no such blanket waiver for Northern states, and doubtful in any.  39-1 is clear on both outerwear for seniors and the SMWOG issue.

The ICL issue not withstanding, for the most part 39-1 is clear on the major parts of the uniforms, and most people with issues are tying themselves in knots to do something they want to.

It could be much better, and would be simple to update regularly, but most "problems" are caused because people can't be bothered to read at all, preferring to believe the old wives over common sense.

I wasn't sure there was a blanket waiver, however many squadrons don't have the heavy coat that you are supposed to wear with the BDU and IIRC I paid $30-$40 for mine (used, not goretex) and so they think they can put civvie coats on cadets because they don't have a choice 1) cadet needs to participate in said activity outside in the cold or 2) don't wear BDU or cadet does not participate.

MY squadron HAS these coats, but not available to all of our cadets because we don't have that many so what do you do? Single out cadets because we don't have enough? Regs are regs.

FWIW I don't have an issue with a SMWOG wearing a blank grey sleeve but regs doesn't seem to allow it nor prohibit it so I tend to err on the caution and consider it prohibited.

One other issue is with SMs who have prior military experience keep telling people they can't wear their uniforms the way CAP allows them to... YES we wear military uniforms but OUR regs differentiate WEAR for specific reasons!

I got told I couldn't wear a black turtleneck or anything other than a black/brown tshirt but according to regs that isn't true.  I have a military brown fleece winter undergarment that I wear under extreme cold conditions (I don't like wearing it because of the super static electricity it builds up) I also have thermals (top/bottom) but they aren't black.

I'm all for following the regs to the best I can and if I am not willing to follow the regs or take the time then I simply limit my exposure to CAP until then.

[lordmonar]

There is no such blanket waiver for Northern states, and doubtful in any.  39-1 is clear on both outerwear for seniors and the SMWOG issue.

With the caviate that common sense outweighs the regulations.  i.e. if it is cold wear an appropriate coat.

As for thw SMWOG issue....the regs are not clear or we would not be having these arguments.

[a2capt]

There is no such blanket waiver for Northern states, and doubtful in any.  39-1 is clear on both outerwear for seniors and the SMWOG issue.

But that might just do the trick. Give them a blanket ...  ;-)

"I've been told" never should be a substitute for "What I (should) read", and thats a problem thats everywhere. Folks ask, and if someone else says "this is what you can do", they mostly never bother to travel the 39-1 maze for themselves.  The best thing you can do is read that regulation. No matter how John and Martha like it can be, read it.

About the only thing on cold climate I seem to recall right now is thermal underwear as long as all the rest of the uniform parts are used with regards to the BDUs. There are similarities in variances for things, but you'll find that variances are usually NOT substitutes, but more to be used with. That way there is still uniformity among everyone (thats in the same uniform anyway.. thats another 20 threads, not here)

[mynetdude]

There isn't anything in 39-1 that says you can wear civvie coats over the BDU in cold weather conditions neither have I seen any ICL that states otherwise.

If you want to talk about common sense vs regulations, then I'd have the common sense to not put the SM/cadet out there to begin with end of story.  But then I am sure gonna have a lot of complainers as to why nobody can supply enough camo coats or have money to get their own.

[Hawk200]

There isn't anything in 39-1 that says you can wear civvie coats over the BDU in cold weather conditions neither have I seen any ICL that states otherwise.

If you want to talk about common sense vs regulations, then I'd have the common sense to not put the SM/cadet out there to begin with end of story.  But then I am sure gonna have a lot of complainers as to why nobody can supply enough camo coats or have money to get their own.

It used to be permitted, but many haven't read the latest 39-1. And it's back to people just not reading again.

[mynetdude]

There isn't anything in 39-1 that says you can wear civvie coats over the BDU in cold weather conditions neither have I seen any ICL that states otherwise.

If you want to talk about common sense vs regulations, then I'd have the common sense to not put the SM/cadet out there to begin with end of story.  But then I am sure gonna have a lot of complainers as to why nobody can supply enough camo coats or have money to get their own.

It used to be permitted, but many haven't read the latest 39-1. And it's back to people just not reading again.

Ah ok that's where they get the idea, looks like I need to go through 39-1 again completely but even doing so will not make me remember it all.

So are we to leave those who are wearing these grey blank sleeves alone or are we to pester them to follow regs? IMHO apart from following regs, this seems like a good idea really.

[Eclipse]

So are we to leave those who are wearing these grey blank sleeves alone or are we to pester them to follow regs? IMHO apart from following regs, this seems like a good idea really.

You should politely and privately correct them, including letting the CC know so he can be more forceful with the correction.

[mynetdude]

So are we to leave those who are wearing these grey blank sleeves alone or are we to pester them to follow regs? IMHO apart from following regs, this seems like a good idea really.

You should politely and privately correct them, including letting the CC know so he can be more forceful with the correction.

eh CC being forceful? In your dreams, unless its a life or death matter he won't flinch (that doesn't make him a bad member cuz he does EXCELLENT as part of our airscrews)

[davidsinn]

So are we to leave those who are wearing these grey blank sleeves alone or are we to pester them to follow regs? IMHO apart from following regs, this seems like a good idea really.

You should politely and privately correct them, including letting the CC know so he can be more forceful with the correction.

eh CC being forceful? In your dreams, unless its a life or death matter he won't flinch (that doesn't make him a bad member cuz he does EXCELLENT as part of our airscrews)

Then he shouldn't be a commander.

[mynetdude]

So are we to leave those who are wearing these grey blank sleeves alone or are we to pester them to follow regs? IMHO apart from following regs, this seems like a good idea really.

You should politely and privately correct them, including letting the CC know so he can be more forceful with the correction.

eh CC being forceful? In your dreams, unless its a life or death matter he won't flinch (that doesn't make him a bad member cuz he does EXCELLENT as part of our airscrews)

Then he shouldn't be a commander.

I suppose not, but I am sure our wing isn't the only one with commanders like this eh? I want to try my share of a command position, granted CAP isn't for everyone and neither is commanding; If I were commander and were regulation hardcore I'd have people writing up complaints against me as well as I writing up complaints against the members who are out of regs (I certainly don't want to make a command career out of that).

[Cecil DP]

So are we to leave those who are wearing these grey blank sleeves alone or are we to pester them to follow regs? IMHO apart from following regs, this seems like a good idea really.

You should politely and privately correct them, including letting the CC know so he can be more forceful with the correction.

eh CC being forceful? In your dreams, unless its a life or death matter he won't flinch (that doesn't make him a bad member cuz he does EXCELLENT as part of our airscrews)

Then he shouldn't be a commander.

I suppose not, but I am sure our wing isn't the only one with commanders like this eh? I want to try my share of a command position, granted CAP isn't for everyone and neither is commanding; If I were commander and were regulation hardcore I'd have people writing up complaints against me as well as I writing up complaints against the members who are out of regs (I certainly don't want to make a command career out of that).

It doesn't necessarily have to be the Commander. In some units RM and CAP, the "Bad guy"  or "Enforcer"is the XO or Deputy Commander.

[mynetdude]

I thought in CAP the CC"s job to be the "enforcer?

[Eclipse]

You should politely and privately correct them, including letting the CC know so he can be more forceful with the correction.

If I were commander and were regulation hardcore I'd have people writing up complaints against me as well as I writing up complaints against the members who are out of regs (I certainly don't want to make a command career out of that).

See above - no one is filing complaints against commanders who do it correctly.

Start dressing someone down FMJ-style in the middle of a unit meeting and you deserve what you get.

[mynetdude]

You should politely and privately correct them, including letting the CC know so he can be more forceful with the correction.

If I were commander and were regulation hardcore I'd have people writing up complaints against me as well as I writing up complaints against the members who are out of regs (I certainly don't want to make a command career out of that).

See above - no one is filing complaints against commanders who do it correctly.

Start dressing someone down FMJ-style in the middle of a unit meeting and you deserve what you get.

LOL you can be correct all you want and being "too" correct can still get you into trouble, not saying it is what it is or should be but it does happen though shouldn't be a reason to not be doing a commander's job.

I dunno, people just aren't what they used to be, if I go around following the regs people are going to turn the other way pretty soon which is why many squadrons do things differently arbitrarily different than what the regs tell them they are supposed to do.

Anyway this thread isn't about that, and it just bugs me and I got a better look at the issue at last night's meeting it turns out he was wearing the CSU/with blue trousers so their excuse was that they didn't have any or didn't order the blue epaulets that is supposed to match it so the grey one was fitting for now WITHIN the squadron but heh

I'm no better than he is right now since I am not wearing any uniform to meetings for the moment.

[vento]

^^^
He was correct wearing the blue pants CSU with grey epaulets. The blue AF epaulets are history.

[mynetdude]

^^^
He was correct wearing the blue pants CSU with grey epaulets. The blue AF epaulets are history.

oh ok, but they ARE going to discontinue the entire CSU then? Whew I'm still wrong on my own again as always at least I don't have to worry that someone else is wrong cuz he's right .