Military ratings on flight suit name badge

Started by dhon27, November 07, 2006, 01:34:05 AM

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dhon27

I have a new member who is a former Army helicopter pilot.  CAPM 39-1 says, generally, that members may wear military badges awarded by competent authority.  Assuming that the member received them in proper due course, CAPM 39-1 appears clear in stating that the member may wear his Army wings on the Service Dress (Table 6-2, Item 5) and the BDU's (Table 6-4, Item 19).  However, Table 6-4 is unclear as to whether he can wear his Army wings on the leather name badge on the flight suit (or utility uniform, for that matter).   

This new member doesn't have a CAP aeronautical rating yet, and is asking what he should get on the leather name badge.  I know I have seen other members wear jump wings and Coast Guard aviation badges on the leather name badge, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're correct.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.

TankerT

Well.  The regulation isn't exactly clear on this one as far as the flight suit is concerned.  However, the only place that I can find a direct reference as to what may be worn on the nameplate is figure 2-19.  It states Aeronautical rating.  It does not specify CAP Aeronautical rating.

I guess it would depend if those wings are defined as an aeronautical rating or not.

/Insert Snappy Comment Here

DNall

Which is where you turn to the AF reg for guidance when ours is less than complete. In which case yes you can wear Army wings. There's also nothing that says you can't go with the two badge style if you got some jump wings too, which are also considered an aeronautical rating.

Is there some specific reason this guy needs to be in a flight suit prior to earning a CAP rating? I mean if nomex is required & you're talking about the check off flights that's one thing, but otherwise I'd wait for observer to order the things. That's what I did.

MIKE

It says aeronautical rating, not aeronautical ratings.
Mike Johnston

DNall

Quote from: MIKE on November 07, 2006, 03:45:41 AM
It says aeronautical rating, not aeronautical ratings.
That's splitting a hair right there. I've seen it done & it looked good. My only reason to keep it to one is I wouldn't want people wearing two sets of wings (mil & CAP or otherwise) cause that just looks stupid.

NIN

Speaking strictly as an enlisted crewmember, I wear my wings on my flightsuit nametag. It was authorized in the old days, before they started randomly dropping stuff out of 39-1 with no rhyme or reason, and there has been no apparent policy changes specifically indicated toward military aero ratings on the flight suit.



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RiverAux

Who says we can use AF regulations to decide questions regarding CAP uniforms?  CAP regulations are the only things that matter unless they specifically refer to other sources. 


TankerT

Quote from: RiverAux on November 08, 2006, 05:01:17 AM
Who says we can use AF regulations to decide questions regarding CAP uniforms?  CAP regulations are the only things that matter unless they specifically refer to other sources. 



Actually, USAF regulations are a part of this discussion, since CAPM 39-1 states:

"only those badges and devices authorized for wear on the Air Force uniform will be worn on the CAP uniform."

/Insert Snappy Comment Here

Psicorp

Quote from: TankerT on November 08, 2006, 02:15:39 PM
Quote from: RiverAux on November 08, 2006, 05:01:17 AM
Who says we can use AF regulations to decide questions regarding CAP uniforms?  CAP regulations are the only things that matter unless they specifically refer to other sources. 



Actually, USAF regulations are a part of this discussion, since CAPM 39-1 states:

"only those badges and devices authorized for wear on the Air Force uniform will be worn on the CAP uniform."

Hmm...I had understood that to mean that only those badges and devices authorized for wear on the CAP Air Force style uniform will be worn on the CAP Corporate uniform.

Jamie Kahler, Capt., CAP
(C/Lt Col, ret.)
CC
GLR-MI-257

BillB

Not true. No military badges, ribbons or insignia will be worn on the corporate uniform(s) Only CAP specific items can be worn.
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104

Psicorp

Quote from: BillB on November 08, 2006, 04:28:10 PM
Not true. No military badges, ribbons or insignia will be worn on the corporate uniform(s) Only CAP specific items can be worn.

My mistake, sir, thank you...I do remember reading that.   This uniform stuff seemed a lot easier when I was a cadet ;)    I need to dig through my junk drawer and find that darned Regulation Decoder Ring.
Jamie Kahler, Capt., CAP
(C/Lt Col, ret.)
CC
GLR-MI-257

DNall

Or perhaps someone could sit down & write a decent reg once in a while. I understand what they were doing in trying to make a user-friendly document, but they did so at the expense of dropping all the little formal details that we actually need. I cite this regularly as yet one more example of them doing rash things w/o thinking them thru & it haveing negative effects in the fields despite their positive intentions.

Hawk200

Quote from: DNall on November 08, 2006, 05:42:47 PM
Or perhaps someone could sit down & write a decent reg once in a while. I understand what they were doing in trying to make a user-friendly document, but they did so at the expense of dropping all the little formal details that we actually need. I cite this regularly as yet one more example of them doing rash things w/o thinking them thru & it haveing negative effects in the fields despite their positive intentions.

One major problem with that line of thinking: it makes sense.  And it seems that these days if someone does something that makes sense, they get fired. It may seem sarcastic or funny, but it tends to be true more often than most people care to admit.

RiverAux



RiverAux

where the heck is the delete button used to delete posts?

MIKE

Quote from: SMF 1.1 Online ManualDepending on the permissions your Membergroup has been assigned, the Modify and Delete buttons may not be available to you. In addition, some forums may be configured to disallow editing or deleting after a set time period.
Mike Johnston

AlaskanCFI

The Air Force is also semi confused on this subject. 
Since I was prior Navy(6 years) and Army (4yrs) I had some rating badges that would have been worn in those branches.  When I went over to the Air Force side, there was all sorts of confusion about wear I should wear my jump wings or other qual badges.
Above or below my A.F. function badge, where did they go compared to my flight wings, ,,, what the heck was with my dive qual badge,,,,

So eventually I gave up and pretty much refused to wear anything that was not required...
Major, Squadron Commander Stan-Eval..Instructor Pilot- Alaska Wing CAP
Retired Alaska Air Guard
Retired State of Alaska Law Dawg, Retired Vol Firefighter and EMT
Ex-Navy, Ex-Army,
Firearms Instructor
Alaskan Tailwheel and Floatplane CFI
http://www.floatplanealaska.com

Hawk200

Quote from: AlaskanCFI on December 05, 2006, 08:25:21 PM
The Air Force is also semi confused on this subject. 
Since I was prior Navy(6 years) and Army (4yrs) I had some rating badges that would have been worn in those branches.  When I went over to the Air Force side, there was all sorts of confusion about wear I should wear my jump wings or other qual badges.
Above or below my A.F. function badge, where did they go compared to my flight wings, ,,, what the heck was with my dive qual badge,,,,

So eventually I gave up and pretty much refused to wear anything that was not required...

Yeah, the Air Force is confused. Some badges would be allowed, others wouldn't be. The Army/Air Force style jump wings are authorized, but although authorized, it is frowned upon to wear Navy/Marine style jump wings.

The various warfare badges that the Navy has aren't acceptable (to the AF). There was a time when there was open authorization to wear the Army Combat Infantry and Combat Medical Badge, but now it's only authorized when serving with Army units. Which pretty much means that only combat weather, Romads, TALO's, and a few other AF personnel that directly support Army units may wear it.

All the Joint Service talk that goes around only seems to address working with other services, not showing any solidarity by wearing those services accomplishments. Seems kinda crappy to me. In my opinion, if you've earned something, you should be able to wear it.

DNall

That'd be fine, all you have to do is get a uniformed logic running thru all the badges & you'd be set. That'd actually be nice to have the same badge for comm in the AF & Comm in the Navy, but hey that's way outside my pay grade. Pilot wings are actually addressed, though I'm sure it never comes up. If you are a rated aviator in another service & then come over to the AF then you get AF pilot wings. I don't know if that crosses over to other types of wings though, think it's just pilot. The thing with jump wings is wierd cause the AF has dif requirements than the other services, but you can wear them if earned in another service.

Anyway, what's the big deal wearing mil badges on CAP flight name patches? Long as it would be auth on the AF version go for it. Personally I need to see your CAP wings more than your military wings (for instance the Army rotary pilot who is an observer in CAP), but if you want to toss some jump wings under or even a GT badge, I'm fine with that too. Long as it looks professional & to AF standards. The CAP regs are so far out of date & make so little sense at times... do your best to understand them & if there's a gap then go to the AF reg, and if you still ahve a question then ask.

Hotel 179

So....do I take my "Fun Factor" tab off the sleeve?

Semper vi, ya'll.

Stephen
Stephen Pearce, Capt/CAP
FL 424
Pensacola, Florida