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CAP Talk  |  Recent Posts
CAP Talk  |  Recent Posts
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 21 
 on: Yesterday at 11:58:56 AM 
Started by MSG Mac - Last post by Spaceman3750
That will be the epitaph on the tombstone of Civil Air Patrol in about 20 years when all assets are being liquidated. That whole thought porcess and  the dinosaurs, are killing this program. Combine that with General Lack of Integrity and people just caring abou the numbers game.

Oh well the wake should be great!

The "death of CAP" will be prevented by dedicated officers such as yourself building high-quality programs in our communities, not arguing on CAPTalk about whether our $65/yr dues are being spent how we want them to be.

If we redirected our energy from arguing on CAPTalk until we're blue in the face about things we have no control over, to our local programs where we have significant influence to do awesome things, how much more could we be accomplishing for the citizens that we serve?

If CAPTalk is such a waste of time, why do members of national staff and BoG read and answer questions here?

I didn't say that it was a waste of time as a whole. I often see a valuable exchange of ideas here. I said that arguing until you're blue in the face about things you can't control is a waste of time - whether on CAPTalk or your Tuesday night meeting.

The bigger point was a renewed focus on providing high quality local programs in order to increase recruiting and retention. Please don't ignore that because you didn't like the second half of my comment.

 22 
 on: Yesterday at 11:51:07 AM 
Started by MSG Mac - Last post by CAPDCCMOM
I take the point about working on my own level. However, at our own levels, these very attitudes are the problem. Spaceman, you say we have no control of these things. That is a dangerous thought. We are the rank and file, we should have the say in how our Ivory Tower members use our money, and resources and assets.

Sitting back and blindly following never let to anything good. This Nation was built on people dissenting and complaining. Back then you did it in a pub, today you do it online.

 23 
 on: Yesterday at 11:39:36 AM 
Started by MSG Mac - Last post by vorteks
That will be the epitaph on the tombstone of Civil Air Patrol in about 20 years when all assets are being liquidated. That whole thought porcess and  the dinosaurs, are killing this program. Combine that with General Lack of Integrity and people just caring abou the numbers game.

Oh well the wake should be great!

The "death of CAP" will be prevented by dedicated officers such as yourself building high-quality programs in our communities, not arguing on CAPTalk about whether our $65/yr dues are being spent how we want them to be.

If we redirected our energy from arguing on CAPTalk until we're blue in the face about things we have no control over, to our local programs where we have significant influence to do awesome things, how much more could we be accomplishing for the citizens that we serve?

If CAPTalk is such a waste of time, why do members of national staff and BoG read and answer questions here?

 24 
 on: Yesterday at 11:35:31 AM 
Started by MSG Mac - Last post by Spaceman3750
That will be the epitaph on the tombstone of Civil Air Patrol in about 20 years when all assets are being liquidated. That whole thought porcess and  the dinosaurs, are killing this program. Combine that with General Lack of Integrity and people just caring abou the numbers game.

Oh well the wake should be great!

The "death of CAP" will be prevented by dedicated officers such as yourself building high-quality programs in our communities, not arguing on CAPTalk about whether our $65/yr dues are being spent how we want them to be.

If we redirected our energy from arguing on CAPTalk until we're blue in the face about things we have no control over, to our local programs where we have significant influence to do awesome things, how much more could we be accomplishing for the citizens that we serve?

 25 
 on: Yesterday at 11:17:10 AM 
Started by MSG Mac - Last post by CAPDCCMOM
^^^Great let's invoke, "This is how we have always done it". That is the knee jerk reaction of an ineffective leader, Learn to Lead, Chapter two or three, not sure which, I dont have a copy in front of me.

That will be the epitaph on the tombstone of Civil Air Patrol in about 20 years when all assets are being liquidated. That whole thought process and  the dinosaurs, are killing this program. Combine that with General Lack of Integrity and people just caring about the numbers game.


Oh well the wake should be great!

 26 
 on: Yesterday at 10:47:01 AM 
Started by MSG Mac - Last post by FW

As I pointed out before, conferences -- including the national conference -- are "self funded" and do not take resources from the organization.


Our national conferences are self funded by registration/banquet fees, course fees, and sponsor fees.  Travel expenses by volunteer and corporate leadership are paid by our corporate (non appropriated) dollars.  How we spend our corporate budget is the responsibility of our National Commander and BoG.  It is an expense we've been willing to afford for decades, because our leadership has found value.  Ned has made an excellent argument for keeping the status quo.  I really don't think this is a reason why are membership numbers haven't  climbed.  That is another discussion...

 27 
 on: Yesterday at 10:19:51 AM 
Started by MSG Mac - Last post by Alaric
First they are not hired, they volunteer and are selected.

Sounds like being hired to me.

Quote
Second, as I have said before if you plan to volunteer for a command position, do your research and save your money.  If you can't afford to do it, don't volunteer. 

Personal opinion duly noted. My personal opinion is that we should have a larger pool of candidates for commander, not a smaller one. Even in a wing as large as Texas, there are usually only 2-3 candidates for wing commander; I don't want to see that number get smaller.

But back to the real topic, the fact that you only want wealthy retired individuals to be commanders has nothing to do with the value of conferences. I believe that the networking that goes on as well as the in person business that occurs makes the cost worth while. I personally will most likely attend at least part of the conference, if for no other reason than to see and talk to some old friends, make some new ones, and see one of my members be honored with a wing of-the-year award. I guess I won't be seeing you there.

First no matter how you try to twist my words I did not in this thread nor have I ever been a proponent of only wealthy, retired people being commanders.  I am neither of those things and I am a commander (Squadron of course not Wing, Region or National)  I however do not expect the squadron to subsidize my activities because I believe that that is part of what I volunteered for, should there be a time I can no longer afford to participate at the level I feel appropriate for a commander I will step down.  I have no problem with the conferences or people going to them, as long as they are paying for them.  I've been to 2 National Conferences myself, and that in my opinion was 1 too many based on the value received for the value spent.  My issue at the beginning of this and now is that travel to conferences should not be subsidized, if people like yourself believe they have value then those people should have no problem paying their own way.  When the organization at least once a year sends out emails pleading for money, cutting costs on things like subsidizing travel should be a no brainer.

 28 
 on: Yesterday at 10:13:47 AM 
Started by MSG Mac - Last post by jeders
First they are not hired, they volunteer and are selected.

Sounds like being hired to me.

Quote
Second, as I have said before if you plan to volunteer for a command position, do your research and save your money.  If you can't afford to do it, don't volunteer. 

Personal opinion duly noted. My personal opinion is that we should have a larger pool of candidates for commander, not a smaller one. Even in a wing as large as Texas, there are usually only 2-3 candidates for wing commander; I don't want to see that number get smaller.

But back to the real topic, the fact that you only want wealthy retired individuals to be commanders has nothing to do with the value of conferences. I believe that the networking that goes on as well as the in person business that occurs makes the cost worth while. I personally will most likely attend at least part of the conference, if for no other reason than to see and talk to some old friends, make some new ones, and see one of my members be honored with a wing of-the-year award. I guess I won't be seeing you there.

 29 
 on: Yesterday at 10:06:30 AM 
Started by MSG Mac - Last post by Alaric
Here's an idea - if you think there is no value to attending conferences... stay home.

They don't take any food off of your plate, and others find them useful. Hey, look at the time! Isn't there a uniform argument scheduled?

That's kind of my point Steve, by spending the organization's money subsidizing certain attendees they are taking food off everyone's plate.  I've got no problem with people spending their own money, when you're spending the organization's money on an event that benefits so few (700 out of 32.8k) then I think its an issue

Except, as Ned has graciously pointed out multiple times, organizational funds are not being used to subsidize anything. Those who get their registration paid for are being subsidized by other attendees ONLY. Conferences take literally nothing out of the broader budget.

As for Eclipses point about taking time and attention, that's a legitimate complaint. I have a Tenant who host a major conference (similar to our national conference in size) for their users every summer. For about 3-4 weeks leading up to the event a certain group of employees is extremely busy and it takes away from their ability to handle other stuff. Likewise, in CAP, a certain small group of corporate employees and volunteers will likely be very busy preparing for this event. So we must simply do what my corporate for-profit Tenant does, plan ahead. If you know that someone at wing/region/national is going to be busy during a certain time frame, then you submit things to them prior to that time frame or wait until after.

What do you think makes up the budget from which their travel allowances come?, member dues that's where, so indeed the money is coming from the broader budget because if the travel allowances didn't exist that money would be allocated elsewhere

Yes they have a travel allowance so that they can visit encampment, travel to units that are isolated from everyone else, and yes go to national level gatherings to conduct the business for which they were hired. Or would you rather the commanders at every level remain locked away in their ivory towers, wholly detached from the rank and file member as well as the rest of the organization?

First they are not hired, they volunteer and are selected.

Second, as I have said before if you plan to volunteer for a command position, do your research and save your money.  If you can't afford to do it, don't volunteer.  The membership should not be subsidizing it.  The "price" of command even at the local level is high, I have warned those who are looking to replace me of this so that they are prepared.  Will this eliminate some people, sure but that's what happens in the real world.  I'd like to be a pilot, but I know that given my current financial realities I will not be able to save enough for lessons.

 30 
 on: Yesterday at 09:56:28 AM 
Started by MSG Mac - Last post by jeders
Here's an idea - if you think there is no value to attending conferences... stay home.

They don't take any food off of your plate, and others find them useful. Hey, look at the time! Isn't there a uniform argument scheduled?

That's kind of my point Steve, by spending the organization's money subsidizing certain attendees they are taking food off everyone's plate.  I've got no problem with people spending their own money, when you're spending the organization's money on an event that benefits so few (700 out of 32.8k) then I think its an issue

Except, as Ned has graciously pointed out multiple times, organizational funds are not being used to subsidize anything. Those who get their registration paid for are being subsidized by other attendees ONLY. Conferences take literally nothing out of the broader budget.

As for Eclipses point about taking time and attention, that's a legitimate complaint. I have a Tenant who host a major conference (similar to our national conference in size) for their users every summer. For about 3-4 weeks leading up to the event a certain group of employees is extremely busy and it takes away from their ability to handle other stuff. Likewise, in CAP, a certain small group of corporate employees and volunteers will likely be very busy preparing for this event. So we must simply do what my corporate for-profit Tenant does, plan ahead. If you know that someone at wing/region/national is going to be busy during a certain time frame, then you submit things to them prior to that time frame or wait until after.

What do you think makes up the budget from which their travel allowances come?, member dues that's where, so indeed the money is coming from the broader budget because if the travel allowances didn't exist that money would be allocated elsewhere

Yes they have a travel allowance so that they can visit encampment, travel to units that are isolated from everyone else, and yes go to national level gatherings to conduct the business for which they were hired. Or would you rather the commanders at every level remain locked away in their ivory towers, wholly detached from the rank and file member as well as the rest of the organization?

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