CAP Talk

General Discussion => The Lobby => Topic started by: Eclipse on April 12, 2017, 06:10:27 PM

Title: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: Eclipse on April 12, 2017, 06:10:27 PM
If you have to look it up, you're not qualified!

http://www.capmembers.com/employment/scrum-master/

(http://s17.postimg.org/ocrlufnwv/scrum.jpg)

FWIW, there's no reason this needs to be located at Maxwell, this could absolutely be a telecommute,
and doing that would open the field to the whole country instead of limiting it to people who live in Alabama.
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: etodd on April 12, 2017, 11:07:12 PM
So what is the software coming down the pike?
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: NIN on April 13, 2017, 07:04:20 AM
So what is the software coming down the pike?

eServices, WIMRS, etc.
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: Larry Mangum on April 13, 2017, 07:11:34 AM
As a certified SCRUM Master, I would agree that it could be non co-located at Maxwell, it would make the job much harder. Since  a majority of the SCRUM Masters time is spent removing obstacles from the teams way and to facilitate the stand-up, being remote would make it a heck of a lot harder to remove the obstacles.
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: chuckmilam on April 13, 2017, 08:08:32 AM
Is that salary in line with local market rates in Montgomery?  Seems low to me, but I'm in the Nashville job market. 
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: dwb on April 13, 2017, 08:30:18 AM
I would call that a reasonable salary in Montgomery.

And I'm with Larry -- the culture at NHQ is decidedly against remote work, and since the Scrum master is primarily a facilitator between people, they really need to be onsite.
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: Eclipse on April 13, 2017, 08:31:40 AM
As a certified SCRUM Master, I would agree that it could be non co-located at Maxwell, it would make the job much harder. Since  a majority of the SCRUM Masters time is spent removing obstacles from the teams way and to facilitate the stand-up, being remote would make it a heck of a lot harder to remove the obstacles.

Are there actually enough IT people physically day-to-day in Abalama to have stands ups and similar?

I thought the majority were project-specific contractors.
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: Eclipse on April 13, 2017, 08:42:16 AM
I would call that a reasonable salary in Montgomery.

In general or for this specific role?  That number is at the low end of the scale, but they
aren't looking for the typical experience normally sought, either (6-10 years).  A BS with 3 years
is going to be the "new guy" at the SCRUM Master Thursday night meetings.

And I'm with Larry -- the culture at NHQ is decidedly against remote work, and since the Scrum master is primarily a facilitator between people, they really need to be onsite.

That needs to change if CAP is going to survive.  There are literally thousands of IT professionals who could
manage many of these projects and systems on a volunteer basis if anyone would just ask (and not turn the
entire situation into more trouble then it's worth for the people working for free).

IT is actually a place where we do have a lot of internal expertise and experience, doesn't require physical presence
anymore, and is critical to all three missions, yet despite the rhetoric about "STEM" and "CYBER" IT and data
related issues are almost universally ignored at the volunteer level, starting with the IT Specialty.

Heck, NHQ is still officially on the fence about Windows 10.
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: Eclipse on April 13, 2017, 08:55:44 AM
The other question I'd be curious about is why Agile is involved at all in a situation like CAP which, again,
I understood to be primarily contractors who are project-focused, when Agile is more suited for larger corporate environments.

CAP has three missions and 1 primary personnel management system.

How many competing priorities can there actually be (at this level), and why do they exist in the first place?
It would seem the systems in place are either too complex for the task, too customized and lacking in standards to
allow for walk-up contractors to tweak things, or too remote from the customer need to allow natural priorities
to bubble up organically.

(For example it seems like the tools unit CCs need to easily manage their units fall well behind WMIRS updates
and similar that seem to be more NHQ-focused, but yet those updates take ages to roll out or are never
or only partially implemented, resulting in confusing systems that look like vintage computer museums).

UX and UI is basically ignored, yet UX and UI design is where a lot of Agile takes place.

Like any other management philosophy, there are arguments on both sides, but when you look at
what Agile really boils down to, it always strikes me as more adhering to what would be
normal best practices and natural project management, but since the corporate world always needs the
"next honey pot" Agile is just in line after ISO, 6σ, Five-9s, Choas, PCI-DSS, 360, etc., etc.
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: Eclipse on April 13, 2017, 09:04:59 AM
This:



is "WTH we're referring to...

Now, my coffee just kicked in, so I have to go have a healthy Kaizen Blitz.
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: NIN on April 13, 2017, 09:18:20 AM
The other question I'd be curious about is why Agile is involved at all in a situation like CAP which, again,
I understood to be primarily contractors who are project-focused, when Agile is more suited for larger corporate environments.

CAP has three missions and 1 primary personnel management system.

How many competing priorities can there actually be (at this level), and why do they exist in the first place?
It would seem the systems in place are either too complex for the task, too customized and lacking in standards to
allow for walk-up contractors to tweak things, or too remote from the customer need to allow natural priorities
to bubble up organically.

(For example it seems like the tools unit CCs need to easily manage their units fall well behind WMIRS updates
and similar that seem to be more NHQ-focused, but yet those updates take ages to roll out or are never
or only partially implemented, resulting in confusing systems that look like vintage computer museums).

UX and UI is basically ignored, yet UX and UI design is where a lot of Agile takes place.

Like any other management philosophy, there are arguments on both sides, but when you look at
what Agile really boils down to, it always strikes me as more adhering to what would be
normal best practices and natural project management, but since the corporate world always needs the
"next honey pot" Agile is just in line after ISO, 6σ, Five-9s, Choas, PCI-DSS, 360, etc., etc.

Oh, come on Bob. Agile is not "more suited for larger corporate environments."

It was originally a development methodology for software, but some of the concepts have applicability in IT operations (to a point... I don't need to wait for the next sprint to get my busted keyboard replaced, for example).

But that was part of the problem with development at NHQ: it was strictly a waterfall development model with poorly understood stakeholders. Imagine all the "requests for development" that come from inside the 4 walls of HQ, the volunteer HQ staff, the regions, wings and well meaning membership.  Now try to prioritize that in a manner that gets the mission critical stuff done without dividing and conquering your limited development staff.  Talk about ADD-inducing.

I may not agree with the Agile methodology (especially when my "next great ideas" are sitting in the backlog) , but I see why we did it.

BTW, do you know what our "1 primary personnel management system" actually is? I'm pretty sure you don't.

Its not eServices.



Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: Eclipse on April 13, 2017, 09:25:53 AM
BTW, do you know what our "1 primary personnel management system" actually is? I'm pretty sure you don't.

Its not eServices.

Fair enough, since eServices isn't actually a personnel management system anyway.

So for education purposes, how many people are on IT staff at NHQ? 

Full time vs. contractor?

And how long has Agile been in place?

And has it had a SCRUM Master from the start?

At the end of the day, the field isn't seeing much of value locally, so whether that's perception or reality is irrelevant to
the people who think they are supposed to be the focus of the organization.

Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: NIN on April 13, 2017, 09:51:47 AM
Fair enough, since eServices isn't actually a personnel management system anyway.

Still didn't answer my question. Do you know what our "1 primary personnel management system" is?


Quote
So for education purposes, how many people are on IT staff at NHQ? 

Full time vs. contractor?

I can't answer the FT/contractor question. And the listing of IT staff at NHQ is in the key personnel directory. Off the top of my head, prior to the arrival of Kathy Conyers, our CIO, we had 4-5 people in IT?  6? Now there are 11.

There are a LOT of reasons for the change in methodology, and like I said, I don't necessarily agree with the Agile methodology, but I think we needed something more than "Everybody and their brother raining down GoodIdeas™ on IT from 360 degrees."  Which is what we had.

Quote
And how long has Agile been in place?

And has it had a SCRUM Master from the start?

Since just after Kathy came on board, and I'm betting we've had someone serving as the scrum master but that wasn't their primary job.


Quote
At the end of the day, the field isn't seeing much of value locally, so whether that's perception or reality is irrelevant to
the people who think they are supposed to be the focus of the organization.

The field may not be seeing it *yet*. But you know that IT is generally an iceberg: 2/3 of the goings on are occurring out of sight of everybody.  When IT is doing things right, you should never even *notice* that IT is there.   There are a lot of projects and things in the hopper, and as they pick off things in the development methodology, they move on to other things.  Stuff is prioritized not based on who is the most influential region commander or who has the ear of the person closest to IT, but what is considered by the business stakeholders and the IT steering committee (and thats comprised of folks from the volunteer as well as the paid side of the house) to be a priority for the organization as a whole. 

I think what we perceive as "no value to the field" is really a paradigm shift at HQ that hasn't been well explained to the field, and as such they're doing a lot of behind the scenes development to either bring a lot of existing apps into line with current development and UX/UI standards, redevelop back-end processes and data models, or prepare for requested apps and features down the road.  So there may be a ton of work actually going on, but we're not seeing it because there is no window into the workshop.

Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: Eclipse on April 13, 2017, 10:15:27 AM
I think what we perceive as "no value to the field" is really a paradigm shift at HQ that hasn't been well explained to the field, and as such they're doing a lot of behind the scenes development to either bring a lot of existing apps into line with current development and UX/UI standards, redevelop back-end processes and data models, or prepare for requested apps and features down the road.  So there may be a ton of work actually going on, but we're not seeing it because there is no window into the workshop.

Well, again fair enough, especially on the "if it works you don't know it", but that won't change the perception.

As to Q1, don't know, don't care, literally not my problem. My problem is the systems CC's and members are
supposed to use to perform mission-centric tasks and activities, while staying ahead of the moving target of
colono...SUIs.

The organization critically needs full end-to-end member career tracking, including attendance logging and empty-shirt vetting,
not to mention a mission and activity management system, missions being the key.    What we see are important programs being
delayed because no one can find a copy of Acrobat to change the doc numbers, new websites no one will ever check added to the
old ones no one checks, and a lot of emails that end with "planned but not implemented".

Until that actually changes, whining will continue.
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: stillamarine on April 13, 2017, 11:57:06 AM
And here I thought we were starting a rugby team.  >:D
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: Larry Mangum on April 13, 2017, 12:54:53 PM
The whole point of going to Agile, is that it allows the organization and the development team to quickly modify software , through iterations. As part of SCRUM, at the end of each sprint, the code is suppose to be completely tested and ready for deployment and have been demonstrated. Which means if a module is demonstrated to the stake holder and product owners, they can quickly say, yes that is what we need or no, that does not meet our requirements, so we cannot use that module without additional work. Oh, and a sprint is normally only two to 4 weeks long.
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: Storm Chaser on April 13, 2017, 02:32:43 PM
Is that salary in line with local market rates in Montgomery?  Seems low to me, but I'm in the Nashville job market.

In my area, which has a reasonable cost of living, a Scrum Master would make $100K+, so I'm surprised by the salary as well.
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: chuckmilam on April 13, 2017, 02:40:39 PM
In my area, which has a reasonable cost of living, a Scrum Master would make $100K+, so I'm surprised by the salary as well.

Same expectation in my area, which is why I was somewhat incredulous.  Now, this could be aimed at a military retiree who's just looking for extra boat and motorcycle money beyond his retiree pay.  This is the explanation I've heard for lower-than-normal-market rates around military bases and in the DC area. 
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: Eclipse on April 13, 2017, 03:05:49 PM
https://www.scrumalliance.org/community/articles/2014/june/how-the-u-s-military-prepared-me-for-agile
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: DJ Light Chop on April 13, 2017, 03:49:38 PM
I used to be a Loosehead Prop.
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: dwb on April 13, 2017, 04:54:56 PM
A couple things on salary...

 - CAP, Inc. is a 501(c)(3). They will never pay as much as some places.
 - COL in Montgomery is pretty low. You'd do alright on $61k.
 - They're not looking for a senior CSM. Only 3 years experience required.

I have not seen "lower than normal" market rates around D.C. It's crazy expensive to live here (I'm in NoVA).
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: chuckmilam on April 13, 2017, 05:03:39 PM
I have not seen "lower than normal" market rates around D.C. It's crazy expensive to live here (I'm in NoVA).

I'm talking GS/Federal positions, mostly.  Pretty much poverty wages in D.C., unless you've got retiree, VA, and other income. 
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: Spam on April 14, 2017, 09:03:53 PM
For those of you who might be interested in tracking the SCR list *(software change request), it can be found at the bottom of the Commander's Corner page. You'll need to have permissions to view it; thus, I won't post the link here (sorry).

It currently has 72 ranked (racked and stacked by priority) SCRs, ending at page 4. There are, believe it, 11 full pages. So, whoever gets selected for this position has hundreds of software items as a backlog on arrival. Obviously, the team already on board are busy crunching away.


V/r
Spam

Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: etodd on April 14, 2017, 11:58:27 PM

It currently has 72 ranked (racked and stacked by priority) SCRs, ending at page 4. There are, believe it, 11 full pages. So, whoever gets selected for this position has hundreds of software items as a backlog on arrival. Obviously, the team already on board are busy crunching away.


So you're thinking we will be keeping the existing WMIRS, eServices, etc., ... and it'll just be patches rolled out here and there?

I was hoping for clean slate status ....
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: Spam on April 15, 2017, 06:28:31 PM

It currently has 72 ranked (racked and stacked by priority) SCRs, ending at page 4. There are, believe it, 11 full pages. So, whoever gets selected for this position has hundreds of software items as a backlog on arrival. Obviously, the team already on board are busy crunching away.


So you're thinking we will be keeping the existing WMIRS, eServices, etc., ... and it'll just be patches rolled out here and there?

I was hoping for clean slate status ....

Well, I wasn't thinking that, exactly. I agree with your point though. There's nothing keeping a program manger (faced with the mass of deficiency reports) from coming to the conclusion that what might be necessary is a complete overhaul with a more integrated back end, coupled to a far more usable front end UI, and that the UI needs to be aimed at an average 8th grade reading level/KSA level for the basic interface, and an average 10th grade reading level for the more complex interfaces.

Certainly, as a guy who designs user interfaces (mostly for tactical cockpits I admit) I had high hopes for eServices 2.0, and am a bit underwhelmed, but there is a bit of progress there. The question is whether we'll accept the need for a systematic analysis of user missions (e.g. "analyze squadron level ES training needs", "analyze Wing level currency for ____ specialty", etc.), then map needs vs. capabilities, map currently supported and the needed functions and information requirements (e.g. reports, inputs and outputs), and create a development road map to invent or reuse the CSCIs to move from the current set of capabilities to the required one.

"Good luck, SCRUM master", O ye of a whopping 3 years of experience!

(Grin)
Spam



Title: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: Nick on April 19, 2017, 09:10:01 AM
So prior to Kathy showing up, IT projects were rack and stacked by Joe Hall with input from a committee of volunteers on a monthly basis. At any one time, there were about 130 items on the backlog; most were  eServices modules (OpsQual and WMIRS being the top 2, with some other stuff sprinkled in). With competing priorities (ops needs this, PD needs that, CP needs everything, etc), it took a long time for backlog items to bubble up. BTW, this doesn't even touch help desk tickets that hadn't made it to the list.

Fast forward to Kathy showing up, she threw the list out, threw the help desk tickets that were bigger than simple bug fixes out, and went to all of the functionals at NHQ and asked them what was most important, thus the creation of the IT functional user group or whatever it's called now. The list you see is the product of that conversation, and now the SM's job is to play rodeo clown as these backlog items get burned down.

Going forward, if you ever want to see something changed through IT, your best bet is to channel it through the chain to the national volunteer for the functional that owns that process or module in eServices and get them to have their corporate staff counterpart (e.g., the Desmarais, Parker, Tourville, and LaFond's of NHQ) make the request to IT. That's how the stuff gets visibility anymore.

BTW NIN: Personify
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: BuckeyeDEJ on April 20, 2017, 08:50:03 PM
They're looking for a SCRUM master? Geez, they probably have enough screwmasters....
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: Spam on April 21, 2017, 02:19:02 AM
So prior to Kathy showing up, IT projects were rack and stacked by Joe Hall with input from a committee of volunteers on a monthly basis. At any one time, there were about 130 items on the backlog; most were  eServices modules (OpsQual and WMIRS being the top 2, with some other stuff sprinkled in). With competing priorities (ops needs this, PD needs that, CP needs everything, etc), it took a long time for backlog items to bubble up. BTW, this doesn't even touch help desk tickets that hadn't made it to the list.

Fast forward to Kathy showing up, she threw the list out, threw the help desk tickets that were bigger than simple bug fixes out, and went to all of the functionals at NHQ and asked them what was most important, thus the creation of the IT functional user group or whatever it's called now. The list you see is the product of that conversation, and now the SM's job is to play rodeo clown as these backlog items get burned down.

Going forward, if you ever want to see something changed through IT, your best bet is to channel it through the chain to the national volunteer for the functional that owns that process or module in eServices and get them to have their corporate staff counterpart (e.g., the Desmarais, Parker, Tourville, and LaFond's of NHQ) make the request to IT. That's how the stuff gets visibility anymore.

BTW NIN: Personify

Nick, that's a very informative and enlightening post - thanks.

WAS (behind us):  I certainly think that dumping/discarding both the SCR (s/w change request) and help ticket list without putting out a notice to submitters was a sub standard, "non ISO" type of response, although I concede that Kathy (whom I've never met and know zero about) seems to have been put in the position of a single experienced doctor arriving at the scene of a mass casualty rail mishap, where a very few talented EMTs were doing their best against a massive overload with no time to plan or prioritize.

IS (going forward, as you constructively state it so well): I think we should give her/the team the benefit of the doubt going forward. If she ever sees this... best wishes, Kathy. You should know that CAP's biggest strength (and Achilles Heel) has always been the depth of its volunteer expertise, coupled with the relative 'flakiness' of reliable, long term support of team projects functions (e.g. curriculum projects, etc.). Drop me a line if you ever want some UX/UI support in wireframing/task and function analysis, UI design, or help with structured assessments/tests of prototypes.

V/r
Spam
Again Nick - great post. Thanks.


Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: Nick on April 22, 2017, 12:51:18 AM
Sure thing. I think your analogy is spot on. All credit to Joe Hall: sustaining the systems they had was a full time project in itself, so there was really no bandwidth for innovating, yet they somehow managed to squeeze a little bit of new product out as they went. I know what it's like to have just enough staff to put out the daily fires.

I am curious what happened to all the open tickets, whether they were deleted, marked as solved/closed, or what. I don't think I had any open so I don't know for sure. I do know our open project list was abandoned, although I see some similarities on the new SCR report.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: A.Member on April 24, 2017, 11:22:18 AM
Rather than building all this homegrown stuff, has there been any discussion in simply ponying up for a configurable out of box solution that meets our needs?  K.I.S.S.   There would be an upfront expense but the ongoing expenses and maintenance could be less and provide greater agility for leveraging changing technology.   
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: dwb on April 24, 2017, 11:58:19 AM
Is there an "out of box" solution that does what eServices does? Think about all of the modules in there. What software package do you know of that does all that?
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: NIN on April 24, 2017, 03:07:07 PM
Rather than building all this homegrown stuff, has there been any discussion in simply ponying up for a configurable out of box solution that meets our needs?  K.I.S.S.   There would be an upfront expense but the ongoing expenses and maintenance could be less and provide greater agility for leveraging changing technology.

So the problem becomes two-fold:

1) Conform your business processes to the out of the box solution (or, in some instances, forego certain amounts of functionality when that solution just doesn't have the capability); or
2) Suck it up and live with the customizations you need to meet your mission and business process requirements.

I did this kind of development in the early 2000s (web-based front end customized apps to larger business back-end systems). One of the systems I was responsible for was an "in-the-building-only" system built up by 3 different guys in 4 different coding styles and development methods before my arrival, so I had a patchwork quilt of code to deal with just to maintain it. Then, one day, the sales guys in other offices discovered that this tool existed and they wanted in.  Then it was sales guys in Europe, Asia-Pacific, etc.  We always wanted to do a "clean slate" rebuild of the whole thing using more modern code (C#), modularization and with an eye toward maintainability.  Strip off some of the database layers, beef up security, change some data models for things, allow user access from outside our domain, etc.  Unfortunately, there was no corporate impetus to invest in the development time, mostly because "it worked, don't mess with it."

eServices has grown in leaps and bounds over the years, and with it applications to promote & laud our members, track our flying hours, etc.  When I retired in 2009, eServices was still pretty nascent. When I came back in 2013, it was *incredibly* more full-featured, and even in the last 4 years, its grown more.

If you want an interesting parallel, ask anybody in the UK Air Cadets about Project Bader sometime. :)

To clean-sheet the whole thing would be a pretty massive development effort.
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: A.Member on April 24, 2017, 03:44:07 PM
Is there an "out of box" solution that does what eServices does? Think about all of the modules in there. What software package do you know of that does all that?
Yes, lots.

Let's step back and be realistic for a moment.  e-Services is not some super special wahzoo application that does something no one else can.  The fact that it has all these built out modules is part of the issue.  We're a volunteer organization operating on a limited IT budget.  Maintaining that crap is a nightmare, I'm sure. 

What do we really need e-Services to do?  It's a secure portal that houses membership information, general organization of resources/assets, professional development, etc.  There are many solutions out there that can do this.  Hell, SharePoint and Google Apps solutions can seriously handle 90+% of this need out of the box. 

What needs to take place is a true enterprise needs assessment with an openness to new approaches.  Would some of our processes need to change with a new solution?  Probably, but I'd argue in virtually every case that would likely be a very good thing.  We'll likely gain some functionality in the process.  The biggest obstacle in this is old guard who are slow to embrace the wheel of change.

Short term pain (minimal), long term gain.  I've done this stuff for a living for quite a while.  It's not secret squirrel.  It will take financial commitment from the organization (forego purchasing a couple new airplanes) and someone that can get leadership buy in.  They also need to be willing to put the effort in up front and follow it through to implementation.  Bottom line:  It needs to be a priority for the organization.
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: N Harmon on April 24, 2017, 04:44:36 PM
When to use Traditional vs. Agile methods:

TraditionalAgile
Criticality is...HighLow
Requirements change...RarelyFrequently
Team size is...LargeSmall
Team members embrace...OrderChange

CAP's IT systems have high criticality, and infrequent requirements changes. The HQ team is small, and I have no idea if they embrace change. Agile seems like a poor choice for CAP, but I'll admit I don't have a complete picture.
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: Luis R. Ramos on April 24, 2017, 04:50:57 PM
Would not going back, clearing everything, and using (Google Aps, SharePoint) be more painful?

Not everyone here knows (Google Aps, SharePoint) so it would be nearly impossible to have something functional in about at least 6 months. Assuming the membership would like to start learning a new system. And new terminology. As (Google Aps, SharePoint) do not call every single module there the same as in e-Services. Getting to rename them would entail changing some of the code, no?

Believe me, we would be getting the same complaints we get from members about e-Services if we select GA, SP, Brand X, Brand Y, or Brand Z.

If it seems to be working, do not mess with it (other than fixes).
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: A.Member on April 24, 2017, 05:27:55 PM
Would not going back, clearing everything, and using (Google Aps, SharePoint) be more painful?

Not everyone here knows (Google Aps, SharePoint) so it would be nearly impossible to have something functional in about at least 6 months. Assuming the membership would like to start learning a new system. And new terminology. As (Google Aps, SharePoint) do not call every single module there the same as in e-Services. Getting to rename them would entail changing some of the code, no?

Believe me, we would be getting the same complaints we get from members about e-Services if we select GA, SP, Brand X, Brand Y, or Brand Z.

If it seems to be working, do not mess with it (other than fixes).
With all due respect, the post above is a perfect example of the cogs of the machine that are difficult to change.

Do not confuse the tools used to create a solution with the user experience.  If done correctly, the impact to the end user, from a functional perspective, should be minimal.
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: Spaceman3750 on April 24, 2017, 05:31:24 PM
My vote would be a custom web app which decouples UI from backend. Build the data system on a RESTful/JSON (though technically with RESTful you're supposed to support XML and JSON) API, then sit a UI on top of the API. You can interchange the UI design, or access the data programmatically, with no change to the backend - it doesn't care, it's just an API.

Then again, as I've found myself saying a lot lately, if I were king I'd have a way cooler hat.
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: Eclipse on April 24, 2017, 06:15:51 PM
What's worse? 1 year of hassle, or another decade of "planned but not implemented"?
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: Luis R. Ramos on April 24, 2017, 08:18:43 PM
Quote

"If done correctly..."


I saw this last in the Best 100 List of Well-Intentioned Phrases...

In Puerto Rico they say "Mas sabe el diablo por viejo que por diablo..."  >:D

Rough translation by me, The Devil is Wiser since he is older, not because he is the devil...  >:D >:D

And I have seen a lot...  >:D >:D >:D

It is seldom done, and often incorrectly!

 ???
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: N Harmon on April 25, 2017, 10:59:18 AM
My vote would be a custom web app which decouples UI from backend. Build the data system on a RESTful/JSON (though technically with RESTful you're supposed to support XML and JSON) API, then sit a UI on top of the API. You can interchange the UI design, or access the data programmatically, with no change to the backend - it doesn't care, it's just an API.

What leads you to believe this isn't the current system's architecture?
Title: Re: SCRUM Master opening at NHQ
Post by: Spaceman3750 on April 25, 2017, 11:12:23 AM
My vote would be a custom web app which decouples UI from backend. Build the data system on a RESTful/JSON (though technically with RESTful you're supposed to support XML and JSON) API, then sit a UI on top of the API. You can interchange the UI design, or access the data programmatically, with no change to the backend - it doesn't care, it's just an API.

What leads you to believe this isn't the current system's architecture?

Nothing.